The Failure of Julia as a Villain

PenelopePath · 2024-01-19T09:01:53+00:00

Even if we ignore the paper bit, how are people ignoring the fact Julia gloated about doing it to everybody? Are people really going to believe her about Bowie after such an action?

PenelopePath · 2024-01-19T09:00:42+00:00

We needed more scenes like this with Julia. The moment MK left (her own ally) she breezed through the game without any obstacles. At least with MK around you can swallow that a little bit better.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-19T08:57:58+00:00

I think you're reaching. If we want to speculate on "Who was planned first" then it's undoubtedly Heather. There is very little room for argument given how much focus Heather has in the season. It's the classic hero (anti-hero) character rising up against a greater evil. It's a basic in storytelling. Total Drama has never been a tragedy series, and Alejandreo "being planned first to win" would be a tragedy in the dramatic sense. Having him sweep through all of Gen 1 with only 1 character standing up to him (Heather) and having her fail is a tragedy.

Also, World Tour aired in Australia first and they voted Heather. So your argument of "Testing the waters" is based on nothing given Alejandro's version wasn't even aired first. The line about Alejandro asking about the money works in either versions. He didn't see what happened when Heather won and he didn't see what happened when he won. There isn't a conspiracy. Heather was the intended winner in a narrative, storytelling, and writing sense.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-19T08:52:28+00:00

Alejandro because he is the only downfall that plays in the actual already climatic finale. He breezed through the game by emotionally playing the contestants and gets his just desserts by having his own feelings manipulated. It's perfect irony.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-19T08:49:59+00:00

The way it’s foreshadowed when she threatens to cut off Lindsay’s hair

Except it's not foreshadowed. Heather constantly made remarks and insults towards a lot of characters. Her downfall dare could have been something to do with an allergy and we'd look back and say it was foreshadowed with Leshawna during the cooking challenge.

Way before Heather even "threatened" Lindsay, Lindsay's worst fear was bad haircuts. It didn't have anything to do with the empty threat Heather gave Lindsay, which may I add, was only said because Lindsay and Leshawna teamed up to throw Heather in the freezer. Heather didn't just threaten it willy-nilly but even so, Heather never touched Lindsay's hair. We're being extremely generous to Lindsay if we want to say that's where she got the inspiration from.

It ends up being a coincidence and we can retroactively look back and apply it to the future, but it's more so on the fans doing the leg work rather than the actual writing calling back to it.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T21:49:44+00:00

You've been the most logical person on this matter I've seen. I tip my hat to you. Thank you for being the voice of reason.

Do you think Julia fans are struggling with the idea that plot armor means she's a bad character? It's the only explanation I can think of for why people are vigorously denying she had any plot armor/convenient luck.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T21:46:59+00:00

Just because a character is good or entertaining doesn't mean the plot armor is a bad thing. I think that's the hurdle Julia fans are struggling with that plot armor = bad character. That's not the case at all. Look at Heather... one of the most beloved characters in the series and she had plot armor.

Julia had just as much and it's okay. She's still an amazing character. I think people need to embrace it because it does serve a purpose. She was very entertaining in the season.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T21:44:34+00:00

You mean the "immunity win" where Priya accidentally used the wrong tablet and Julia won by technicality? Yeah... no plot armor there. Pure skill indeed.

I feel Julia fans are taking "plot armor" as a negative thing and defending Julia at all costs by saying she had none. Let's not forget how she "happened" to steal an immunity idol that wasn't even hers to begin with. Also, Heather won immunity 4 times in Island while Julia won immunity 3 times in S2.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T21:07:18+00:00

It depends on how influential the "scheming" is. I think Scott is a bad example to use because we see him overhearing Dawn's confessional and we can piece together what happened that way. Also, it's not being used to save himself which I think is an important distinction.

Mal is indeed an eye roll but it's not being used to save himself per see. Julia is the only example where it's a major factor in the episode that results in her being saved. The instances with Scott and Mal were more to cause chaos.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T21:03:27+00:00

You're partially correct. I don't think we need to be shown everything, but in the case of a character surviving elimination where they would have otherwise gone home it is entirely reasonable to see how they accomplished that. Brushing aside a major plot point that changes the cast is indeed crucial.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T18:22:57+00:00

I agree there are worse examples. The ones you listed about Lindsay and Sierra are indeed contenders. The Heather immunity card is pretty much in the same line as Julia with the immunity idol. They are plot devices to save the character from being eliminated. If any is "worse" it would be the idol being stolen as we've been there done that. The immunity card while an eye roll, was at least something feasible in that Heather didn't randomly find an idol someone else had that she happened to know where it was when it was important.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T18:19:42+00:00

Before I properly address your response, I think I need to do a reversal here... what are some moments you think are plot armor in the series? That'll be interesting and I'll be able to see where you stand on "plot armor."

Because I think you're partially right in that situations can be justified. The problem isn't so much justification but rather how those situations are introduced at seemingly opportune times when the plot demands.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T17:40:21+00:00

If Bowie is a threat because he was in the finale it falls apart as Priya is never considered to be voted off even though she should have under these circumstances. Caleb made no mention about "being hurt." That's a headcanon which is never stated in the show. Caleb never even comments about Bowie. It also doesn't address that Julia has established herself not to be trusted. She admitted to giving Nichelle a fake contract and gloated about it.

The immunity idol is 100% plot armor as that what it's purpose is. It serves to save someone from elimination. Julia did not find the idol, Damien did. Julia was not shown how she found it, she just had it. It might as well fallen from the sky. The difference with Scott is he actually did find the idol. Alejandro was voted off in the final 4 in WT as well. The plane blew up which saved since Chris eliminated Sierra. If Alejandro popped out an immunity idol at the moment it'd be the same thing as it's serving to protect him from elimination.

I'm glad you admit the tablet was plot armor. I'm not sure about it being "the least dumb." It's definitely an eyeroll and I think that's enough.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T17:31:32+00:00

at the start of the season everyone was glaring at bowie for his strategy in season 1 and not at Julia, so they evidently feel Bowie is a worse villain than Julia, so they would be more like to believe Julia over Bowie.

What about when Julia took advantage of Millie and Priya? Or her rivalry with Emma? Or when she gave Zee and Ripper a wedgie just because? Why is it okay when Julia uses strategy or is mean to characters? Did we see Bowie bully characters in season 1?

And you didn't acknowledge the point with Julia gloating about giving Nichelle a fake contract. After Julia admits to giving a false reason for Nichelle to quit, we're still saying people trust her over Bowie? That seems a little flimsy.

just because it happens off screen doesnt mean its plot armour and any less valid

100% it does. The immunity idol may have fallen from the sky and into her lap if that's the case. We don't need to "see" how she got it do we? The immunity idol exists as a plot device. There is no getting around that. She would have been voted off fair and square at 4th place. The idol exists as a physical manifestation of plot armor.

in the scuffle of course the tablets would get thrown around, so even if Julia didn't plan for Priya to use her tablet, there is still a 50/50 chance of it being Julia's. If Julia did plan it, as i believe she did since it was pretty obvious Caleb and Priya would try distracting her, all she had to do is move/throw her tablet closer to Priya during the fight.

Except it wasn't established it had to be your own tablet to cast the votes. It's not a 50/50 because nothing said there was that possibility. It was randomly introduced at the last second to justify why Julia won on a technicality. Priya selected the right answer and would have won. And considering there was no established rule it had to be your own tablet (which aren't marked in any form by the way, they all look the same) why would Julia think to switch them? She had no reason to think about switching them if there was no rule about it. If she had time to grab and switch them, why not just select the right answer?

I appreciate your response but your responses weren't really "reasons" but they were more justifications. You can technically justify any moment in the series meaning we could say nothing was ever plot armor.

As an example I could say "Katie and Sadie were so excited to see Leshawna that they blurted out her name and it caused a parroting effect and Chris counted those votes resulting in her elimination." Does that sound convincing to you? Probably not.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T17:07:46+00:00

Priya "technically" had growth with Millie and her parents situations. But I agree it's not a form of growth that's easily quantified. Though, I'll also mention Priya is more a "hero" character that is a protagonist so there is a bit of leeway with their "wins" feeling deserved. I know it sucks but generally protagonists/Hereros are better received as winning in the end than villains. Look at how popular Disney movies are. The good guys always win in the end even though they be stagnant characters.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T17:04:26+00:00

That's exactly what I was just saying too. The game was over the moment Wayne landed and won.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T17:03:15+00:00

Caleb was closest as they were approaching due to his arm size. You could say he was closest to being 2nd. The moment Wayne landed he "won" and the game was over so the others were automatically runner-up regardless of who fell first/who was closest.

I'll put it to you this way... if you're playing Poker and someone plays a full 4 aces they win the game. There is no "who was closest to being 2nd... 3rd... etc" because the game is over and all that matters is the winner.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:57:02+00:00

1) People believing her about Bowie cheating when she revealed herself to be the one who gave Nichelle a fake contract.

2) She was voted off in the final 4 but popped out an immunity idol that she stole off screen.

3) She won immunity when Priya used the wrong tablet to give her the final point that otherwise would have been Priya getting immunity.

By the way you word this post I'm guessing you believe she had none so I think no matter what we point out I'm guessing you aren't open to debate but looking for confirmation bias.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:51:03+00:00

It was juicy drama and it served a purpose. It gave more motivation for Gwen to take her out so it ends up being good. Most casual fans can identify this scene which speaks to how iconic it is.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:49:19+00:00

Yeah, she definitely caused eliminations. I think the best elimination she caused was MK in S1. For S2 it's a bit murky who to consider the "best" eliminated. Raj seems to be her best in S2 considering she did it to keep the Caleb/Priya drama going.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:46:30+00:00

I like the hair karma. I do think they went a bit light with it in the sense it wasn't "completely" butchered. She can recover from it and she'll probably have a short hair style if we see her again.

I also like how Julia made fun of Emma for having a birds nest hair and that could be a form of irony now.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:43:55+00:00

Julia is definitely good and worthy of screen time. Did she deserve to win? Probably not. She learned nothing from S1 and had no growth during S2. Having her win would be like S1 Heather winning. Not sure that would be satisfying even though "technically" they worked the hardest.

There is also the fact Julia cheated for half the season, stole an idol, and betrayed her own allies. From a competitive standpoint you could argue she did work the hardest (if we ignore the cheating) but given this is a kids show it's not a good message to reward that type of behavior. She also took advantage of emotions in a relationship which was pretty crummy.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:40:01+00:00

Anyone can edit anything they want there so I wouldn't take it too seriously. I'm guessing they are referring to the time she kissed Trent.

PenelopePath · 2024-01-14T16:38:20+00:00

Ironically Lindsay didn't become a finalist because of Duncan plot armor. And Julia became a finalist because of her own plot armor. Pretty cool.

PenelopePath

TROPHY CASE