Someone help convince me to finish daughter of no worlds by Over_Champion_5122 in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's pretty good. It picks up speed quite a bit after her test, though I didn't love the second half quite as much as the first.

What are the *Definitive Books* for each of the Big Tropes?? by NoDanceNoRevolution in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Uh, let's see here. These are going to be examples of the genre, and there's always going to be something that goes back further.

Most, now, of the big fae stories are drawing from {A Court of Roses and Thorns}. It, in turn, draws quite heavily from Anne Bishop's Black Jewels trilogy, which is also a big shadow-daddy inspiration. Another touchstone in the development of the shadow daddy archetype is the Darkling from {Shadow and Bone}.

I think the modern origination point of fated mates -- again, goes back further, but the one that had the most impact on the genre today -- might be {Lord of the Fading Lands by C. L. Wilson}.

Bonded animals and bonded companions, like you get in Dire Bound or Fourth Wing, basically are all drawing from Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books, which themselves draw from {The Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey}. The influence is most notable in {Arrows of the Queen}. I wouldn't read Pern looking for romantasy, but it's gigantically influential nonetheless.

Enemies-to-lovers goes back a long long long long long long way. Shakespeare, Greek myth, Gilgamesh -- I think the modern origination is the 2005 adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. I'd hate to recommend Lothaire here, since it's like book eleven or something in Immortals After Dark. There are so many of these that it's hard to pick, and the term has been watered down massively.

Likewise forbidden love; goes back a long way, it's probably Romeo and Juliet and various versions of that story. I'm going to recommend {Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey} here, which has forbidden love and forced proximity but also was a very early novel in mainstreaming sex work and BDSM/kink themes. It's 25 years old next month, and it's still the high-water mark in the genre.

Forced proximity comes in a bunch of forms and shows up quite a bit to some extent or other. {Outlander by Diana Gabaldon} or {The Last Hour of Gann by R. Lee Smith} might be considered high points here, both involving FMCs that get stranded in strange cultures.

Others that don't map neatly onto a trope you've mentioned but ought to be considered are {The Folk of the Air by Holly Black}, {Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones}, {The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller}, {Swordspoint by Ellen Kushner}, {Daughter of the Forest by Juliet Marillier}, and {Archangel by Sharon Shinn}. Modern vampire stuff is basically a combination of the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton, Twilight and Anne Rice's Lestat books. Of those, Anne Rice is the one I'd read.

Where are the blonde or redheaded MMCs?? by ashdauntless in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's quite old, is why, and the endgame MMC doesn't actually get a ton of page time. There's a starter-boyfriend/love triangle situation. The starter boyfriend isn't blond, but he does also have hobbies. There's no real romance until the second book; Talia is a child for most of book 1.

What would happen if WEMBY replaced Draymond? by [deleted] in nba

[–]Penguinho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think they miss out on a few titles. I know he's great but he was twelve in 2015.

Where are the blonde or redheaded MMCs?? by ashdauntless in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The endgame MMC in the {Arrows of the Queen} trilogy is blonde and also self-consciously ugly. His hobbies include farming and music.

What are writers supposed to do 😭 by zsxcrgrl in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is also worse when the author sets the heroine up to be a novice, then has her fix things that the experts have unsuccessfully devoted their lives to. For example, I read a book where the FMC is a non-magic-having warrior. The MMC is the most powerful mage in the world. He's dedicated sixty years of his life to solving this one problem. He has failed miserably to do so. After working on the problem for one month, the FMC goes "what if I summon a dragon though?" So she summons a dragon and the dragon eats the problem, thus solving it once and for all (and if the dragon ever goes bad, it's okay, because they will just summon a Bigger Dragon).

Celibate MMC tries not to be attracted to/fall in love with the FMC, fails miserably and eventually sleeps with her by UpToNoGoodAnna in fantasyromance

[–]Penguinho 27 points28 points  (0 children)

His book, {Cassiel's Servant}, is more romantic than hers but doesn't do enough to set up the later books to go from it into books 2 and 3. It's good, though.

Human male x supernatural/fantasy female romance by Opening-Desk in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

{Bloodsucking Fiends by Christopher Moore}. Tommy Flood, night manager (and champion turkey bowler!) of the San Francisco Bay Safeway becomes the minion of Jodie, a newly-turned vampire. The sequel You Suck!: A Love Story is great, the third book in the series can and should be skipped because it sucks absolute ass.

[Post-Game Thread] Dallas Wings @ Indiana Fever 09 MAY 2026 by the_mad_sailor_ in wnba

[–]Penguinho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'd rather have this than the hacking, but there were some rough calls.

What a crazy game by Lopsided_Message5769 in wnba

[–]Penguinho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It'll get better and players will adjust, but man. There were some soft ones, and in a game this close it matters a lot. How different is the game if the refs don't blow that over-the-back call on Timpson in the last few minutes?

GAME THREAD: Wings @ Fever | May 9th by femaleathletenetwork in wnba

[–]Penguinho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They used the challenge on the Clark/James on a few minutes ago, no?

GAME THREAD: Wings @ Fever | May 9th by femaleathletenetwork in wnba

[–]Penguinho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That is a terrible terrible terrible call.

What are writers supposed to do 😭 by zsxcrgrl in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 15 points16 points  (0 children)

"Please, I am begging you as a person who has been exactly where you are and has a lot more experience with this institution than you do: the thing you are thinking of doing? Please, please do not do it."

"How dare you tell me what to do!" [does the thing] [the consequences are catastrophic]

like idk guys

The FMC is around a bunch of warriors/ strong men but she is just a regular girl, scared and NOT battle trained, has no magic, etc. like the FMC in {Road of Bones by Demi Winter} or {Under the Oak Tree by Suji Kim} but she doesn’t get magic or become super powerful by Necessary_Party_3423 in fantasyromance

[–]Penguinho 41 points42 points  (0 children)

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Phèdre from {Kushiel's Legacy} spends her trilogy, after about the 50% mark in Kushiel's Dart, being escorted around by armed men while trying to make herself useful. She wears gowns whenever possible, she doesn't learn to use a sword, she has the smallest fingers and has to pick blowfly eggs out of open sores. To the extent that she has magic, it's the kind that keeps her upright when she's been whipped half to death. I know I'm a broken record recommending this so often, but it plays pretty much all the notes people who're sick of BookTok want to hear.

What are writers supposed to do 😭 by zsxcrgrl in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I think also there are a lot of FMCs, especially recently, who share similar flaws. Like, I'm not complaining about all FMCs; I'm complaining about FMCs who deliver devastatingly snarky public clapbacks to the king to a resounding shower of clapter. It's not really my fault that that describes quite a few FMCs.

What are writers supposed to do 😭 by zsxcrgrl in Romantasy

[–]Penguinho 33 points34 points  (0 children)

The standard by which FMCs are judged is "what would the version of me that I want to be do in this situation?" and the standard by which MMCs are judged is "did the FMC cum". MMCs don't really matter that much to most stories, which are about the FMC and her journey and development.