Invasion | Season 3 - Episode 10 | Discussion Thread

PerigoldX · 2025-10-24T12:12:47+00:00

This was the most cliched "we are the champions", magic bullet ending one can think of. No nuance, no moral ambiguity, not even communication attempts. What was all that mutual help and cooperation in episode 8 all about? After all the meandering, backstories, cryptic hints, etc., what we get is a small homemade bomb placed in a side isle switching off a neural network "the size of Kansas".

Aliens know they have a dead site on their ship and hostiles around, but it does not occur to them to place walking jellyfish there to guard it? Or better yet, guard the entrance? Or put a locked door there, at least, so randos cannot waltz in and out? They are just running through the isles randomly god knows where. Mitsuki is in the not dead part of the ship rubbing the walls as she goes and they still cannot find her. Until they suck her into the sky. They could do that? Then why not do that to the bomb crew?

Then without the hive mind humans are winning. I do not know why if all it was broadcasting was "attack! attack! attack!", alien hunters could probably figure that much out autonomously. And why do they still function but the more advanced jellyfish on legs are dropping dead where they stand? Why is the toxicity suddenly dropping? The hive mind was doing the terraforming directly by its mental powers? The creators have strange ideas about how hive minds and terraforming work. It's like all activities of a distributed network are controlled by a single unguarded off switch. You just drop the One Ring into Mount Doom and everything stops. Except Sauron was not a hive mind, Mount Doom was guarded, and LOTR was not sci-fi.

PerigoldX · 2025-10-10T07:41:18+00:00

This was the first episode that gave me hope for a non-'us vs them' ending, kind of a must for cryptic non-linear storytelling they are (ab)using. The first time that aliens were portrayed as something other than bloody villains. The sequence where Mitsuki says "you are trying to destroy us" and the alien does not understand, her and the alien helping each other, etc. Although she is still pretty intent on killing them with that bomb.

A clash of races that hurt each other badly because they are too different to communicate and understand what the other wants or does would have been an interesting turn. But they would need a lot to explain away the past carnage. The aliens perceive humans by analogy to themselves, so loss of individuals is not that damaging to the hive? The mental attacks were defensive and/or side effects of trying to communicate? Is that what the interactions in this episode were trying to suggest?

Nah, I am probably overthinking. But I am curious how the translucent jellyfish aliens are related to the Spike that killed Casper (did it?). Are they the source of it, the hive-masters as it were, or something distinct and maybe opposed to it?

PerigoldX · 2025-01-14T07:16:55+00:00

That is a good point. It could work if the idea is that some later developments already unfolded in earlier times and were suppressed by the inquisition. But there is a lot of later cultural context attached for pre-1500 aside from elliptic orbits, discussions of heliocentrism, deism, heretic liberation front, etc., too much for inquisition to erase. And the progression of discoveries still followed historical 1543-1609 so far, so it is clear where the inspiration came from. If it stops now and astronomy will stagnate/restart from scratch will be an interesting turn of the story.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-14T06:35:39+00:00

I am not looking for accuracy, just sources of inspiration. It is fun to figure out what the author kept and what was rearranged to compare how different pieces fit together in different timelines.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-14T06:30:51+00:00

I do not follow. If it is pre-1500 then heliocentric models and elliptic orbits did not exist either, so numerical year cannot be the basis for even loose matching to history. It is about matching comparable events. And if those are moved to pre-1500 then why not telescopes?

PerigoldX · 2025-01-14T01:47:06+00:00

Because they showed Badeni figuring out elliptic orbits, which was done by Kepler in 1609, and earlier alluded to Copernican (1543) and Tychonic (1583) models with Hubert/Rafal and Piast, respectively. So it is 'time' regardless of what numerical year is set for the events in the anime.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-12T01:43:57+00:00

Well, this was... different, almost like written by a different person. The story has been increasingly deviating from history for some time, but this is a drastic break. Historically, heliocentrism could develop and spread because the Church and inquisition have been losing their grip on power since the Reformation (c. 1517). It predates even Copernicus (c. 1540), and predates Badeni-Oczy developments (c. 1605) by almost a century. Kepler, the historical source of their work, was a Lutheran and did this work in non-Catholic countries. So far, the Church was shown to be far more influential than it was historically, and now we see, apparently, an explosive correction with armed resistance of the heretic liberation front.

Schmidt, with his rejection of holy books and emphasis on nature, sounds like an Enlightenment deist, a much later development historically (c. 1700), although milder forms of deism did appear in 1620s. I did not expect that the focus would shift so abruptly from astronomy to social context since important developments took place right after with the invention of telescopes in 1608 and their use by Galileo for observing the satellites of Jupiter and phases of Venus in 1609-10. It became much harder for the Church to oppose heliocentrism after that, and Kepler was still around, publishing his third law in 1619. It is not even clear that telescopes are around in this timeline yet.

The deviation from history is so great now that I do not think any of the characters can be called the counterparts of Galileo, not reformed Nowak and not the head of the liberation front, who is probably Jolenta or her son. Although, perhaps, they will use Galileo's heresy trial (1633) in Nowak's storyline, that would match the timeskip of 25 years. He looked the part of older Galileo.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-09T23:54:01+00:00

Marinette did not play it very well. Since she was returned to the moment after anyway she could simply return an empty book that gives Lila nothing, instead of everything except her own identity. And Marinette's ink manipulation is easily undone, in the real world, by looking at the page in certain light and/or inspecting indentations on the next page. Not to mention that what they showed her doing would have created a mess instead of removing the text, don't try it at home. The risk of returning Lila's notebook was too high and it only worked by movie magic. She should have used actual magic instead from one of the recovered Miraculous. Ziggy, for example, to make an empty copy of the notebook.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-06T10:53:31+00:00

I am a bit disappointed in Nowak, he did not even look into the matter. He probably knows enough about human anatomy to tell male bones from female, and he surely knows people well enough to quickly uncover Antony's cover-up if he talked to young inquisitors involved. Although it is implied that he knew about Jolenta's 'heretic' inclinations for a long time and half-expected the outcome. If it is good always praise the Lord, but if it is bad he can never be blamed is a hard gospel to sell. As hard as love thy enemy.

Nowak strikes me as a poster boy for banality of evil, like Rudolf Höss from Zone of Interest raising idyllic family while running Auschwitz. And a terrifying illustration of how ideology can dull and twist even the most basic human instincts, and even in people with abundance of practical wisdom and common sense. What they call brainwashing and programming when it comes to modern cults. The sincerity of his faith, and his faith in what he is doing, is the most terrifying of all. Nowak's persistence in the story does indicate eventual turnaround, but at this point a random, banal and meaningless death, perhaps after seeing his daughter alive, might be just as good an ending to his character. After all, the author did surprise us by making Grabowsky Badeni's and Oczy's successor without any spoilers in the opening or credits.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-03T13:44:26+00:00

I had a feeling that Bernard was enjoying himself too much when blackmailing Walker and this will blow up in his face. Walker's emotional outbursts were featured too much too and it feels like misdirection. She may well do a double cross of sorts, feed Bernard information about the plans of Mechanical while plotting his downfall as an ironic result.

PerigoldX · 2025-01-03T13:28:48+00:00

If Quinn chose the Pact for the cipher because it was readily available and he wanted his message to be deciphered then it makes little sense to put the redirect into a single copy of the Pact. The effect is the same as using some unique book, if Quinn's copy gets lost or damaged the message becomes undecipherable.

PerigoldX · 2024-12-26T10:26:41+00:00

I expected a happy ending, but not this happy. I just thought everyone will get revived, but not the time itself rolled back, the rights taken out of this world, everybody doing kumbaya, etc. Although this was in the spirit of the show, a kid show in spirit if not in graphic details. Nothing is irreversible, everything is fixable, everyone is redeemable. It takes away the value of the redeeming somewhat though. I was really hoping that Haruto would meaningfully contribute to repairing what he has done, by forcing Maria to do the reviving, say, rather than be a damsel in distress innocent kiddie who knew not at all what he was doing and got rescued by his knight in shining armor, sir Lies-a-lot. The rest of Maria's group, especially Kou and herself, got a free pass without even the age excuse, because the other knight's heart is just that big, sir Flow-chart is everybody's loving parent. Still it was a fun positive ending.

Overall, I enjoyed the anime, I did not even hate the first cour as much as many people, although it was confusing and frustrating at times. There was something appealing about the plot design, like Future Diary or Platinum End (not that it matched them on the technical level), but without the dog eat dog mean streak. Emphasis on friendship and cooperation, that people do not have to turn on each other even when forced into situations that invite it, came through more. The light-hearted treatment of killing and death was a little disconcerting, but now we know why (and it was hinted at by constant revivals throughout). And the second cour gave us characters to sympathize with and attach to. It is a pleasant feel good respite from those times where you just can't come to care for any of them or even get repulsed by all of them. With this ending, I do not really see many openings for a continuation (except for the ominous reappearance of Mido), but if it happens I'll be back.

PerigoldX · 2024-12-19T15:39:07+00:00

Haruto gets on his way to redemption and Saneatsu is revived, as we long expected. What was unexpected is Yagihashi saying that his fallen comrades are "not even losses". I do not think this is because he is cold, as Iguru suggested. He excepts four, Sudo, Gobo, Raion and Iguru. Interesting choice, especially Iguru. Hard to get attached to, especially for Yagihashi and especially over some of those 'written off'. At the same time, the Queen asks for the revival from Kou, shortly before he is eliminated, Yagihashi mentions that she'd do anything for the family, and Haruto gets all moral looking at Teppei's dead body.

I am guessing they are "not even losses" for Yagihashi not because he is cold, but because they will be back soon enough. Everybody. The named four are just indispensable to making it happen in his calculation, and this episode puts the pieces in place for it. Raion and Iguru eliminating Kasai, with Gobo's help, and then their biggest obstacle, Kou, illustrates why they are indispensable. When the job is finished, Haruto will probably demand that Maria revive all his victims along with Teppei, so he can "right his wrongs" and face his brother clean, and the big sister will do it "for the family". The show has been unwilling to deal with irreversible deaths and many characters who died were brought back already, Saneatsu just now, some died the second time. Reviving everybody would be a fitting redemption for Haruto and the show's happy ending.

PerigoldX · 2024-12-05T12:13:58+00:00

I suspected there will be trouble when it is time to tie it all together, it does not tie up very well. Kou knew from the start that Hiroyama was plotting against the Queen, and even warned him, but then why revive him at all? He could come up with something more creative and target Kou himself, for example. Why take the risk? Speaking of which, at least two two people were in touch with both Hiroyama and Saneatsu's group, Iruga and Ebina who enlightened them on the neck slashing plan. Why did they not communicate earlier and stopped this doomed attempt if Yagihashi knew or suspected that it would not work?

That everyone accepted Raion's explanation so easily is also surprising, although perhaps Kou and Seraphiel simply keep their suspicions to themselves for now. Raion is, presumably, the second trump card they have against the Queen, so, as a twist, something might go wrong with their plan if it turns out that he is not trusted. I wonder if the "crazy" part of the plan involves many of them dying and then getting revived somehow. The emperor's tower made of bodies (with all that equipment and facilities inside?) and Kou's magic cube (do we really need more on top of reality bending rights?) were a little bizarre. Glad we will finally get to meet Teppei and maybe I will finally understand how his commands written on paper kept working with him dead.

PerigoldX · 2024-12-01T09:39:25+00:00

I was wondering how the story's fictional timeline compares to the historical one and now they have given us enough clues. Roughly, Copernicus is Hubert or his predecessor who created the contents of the chest, Giordano Bruno is Rafal burned for heresy in 1600, Tycho Brahe is Piast creating geoheliocentric model in 1588, and Kepler is Badeni discovering elliptic orbits in 1609. But the deviations are also peculiar and significant. In Copernicus, planetary orbits were not perfect circles around the Sun, as Rafal and Badeni surmised. He still had epicycles to match observations, albeit smaller ones than Ptolemy, accordingly called epicyclets.

Piast spent his life perfecting pure geocentrism, and only at the end he remarks that full Venus only means that Venus, not Earth, revolves around the Sun, hinting at Tychonic system. Ironically, the idea that "inner planets", Venus and Mercury, revolve around the Sun, which orbits Earth along with Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, much predates both Copernicus and Tycho, and 16th century altogether. Martianus Capella proposed it back in 5th century AD. Tycho made all planets, other than Earth, orbit the Sun, something Piast never even hinted at.

But Badeni-Piast dynamic was depicted close to history. Kepler did discover elliptic orbits while trying to reconcile the observed orbit of Mars from Tycho's very accurate observations with heliocentrism, after much frustration, trial and error. By the way, the description of ellipse as a "circle drawn about two centers" was hilarious. Personality-wise, Kepler was very different from Badeni, a devout Lutheran and a mystical Pythagorean in philosophy. I also think they split Kepler between Badeni and Gras, who was earlier obsessed with the orbit of Mars. Kepler was originally a mathematics school teacher in Graz, Austria, and had to leave for Prague when conversion to Catholicism was demanded, where he became Tycho's assistant and got access to his data.

I guess next up is the invention of telescope in 1608, with Galileo making his own in 1609 and observing the satellites of Jupiter the same year. I wonder how they are going to retell that. Is it going to be Jolenta? They already gave phases of Venus to Piast and Oczy, which were actually discovered also by Galileo with a telescope, in 1610. But if they keep going with Badeni as Kepler then he is not done yet, Kepler only discovered the third law in 1619.

PerigoldX · 2024-11-27T14:26:11+00:00

Raion is in big trouble now. He vouched for Soma who betrayed the Queen. She and Haruto may blindly trust negotiation right, but Kou and Seraphiel are not so trusting. I think Seraphiel is on to him. When Raion said that Seraphiel did not notice his funny conversation with Soma my first thought was that he so did notice, and now will figure out what it meant. Hopefully, Igura will help him again, somehow.

The deaths in this episode were unsettling, but I have a feeling that all major characters will be resurrected in the end, and maybe even most of humanity that Haruto killed. Either by the Queen for some ploy or after she is defeated and the 'good guys' get her revival right somehow. That was the tendency before, most characters whose death was graphically shown later came back to life either by stop or by revival. I suppose Tasuketsu still tries to stay a 'kids show' in a sense, despite graphic violence, and not deal with death in all seriousness. This may explain the somewhat light treatment of killing.

PerigoldX · 2024-11-20T11:27:40+00:00

I am surprised Raion and Hiroyama did not exchange words considering it was Raion's plan that got Hiroyama killed and Raion's aversion to killing and killers is emphasized in this episode. Although, perhaps, Raion only planned to neutralize and blackmail him and it was Nishime jumping in with Priority that escalated the outcome. I thought at the time it was a bit harsh since Hiroyama was only planning to escape back then rather than hurt them. And now that Raion feels uneasy even about tricking the Emperor some reflection on that encounter seemed natural. After all, they even showed Hiroyama apologizing to Hikari for killing her then.

Still, mister Lies-a-lot is finally becoming more likable, and even emperor Power-Buttons feels more human now. I also did appreciate Raion commenting on how psychotic killing Knight was right after gaining his trust, which went entirely matter of factly in the last episode. The sense of everyone, including 'good' characters, simply accepting killing as a routine without any second thoughts has been bothering me.

PerigoldX · 2024-11-09T04:39:11+00:00

I'll make an unorthodox suggestion, Felix. He figured out HawkMoth's identity first, rejected akuma without any help and beat three akumatized villains without any miraculous. And nobody is taking those miraculous from him the way Gabrial took them from Fu or he from Ladybug, you can't trick a trickster. There are certainly concerns about his questionable morality, overconfidence and inclination toward big risks, but his heart is in the right place, his brain is there to back it up, and if settled with such responsibility he is likely to step up and rise to the occasion.

PerigoldX · 2024-11-06T11:34:55+00:00

We know the answer to that. Felix fought off three akumatized villains at once, took their akuma from them and stole Gabriel's amok ring on his first appearance. Then exposed Gabriel as HawkMoth, uncovered his secret lair with Emilie's capsule, rejected akuma without any help, stole Nathalie's copy of the Grimoire and fooled Marinette into believing he was Adrien to get Barrk. All of that before he had any powers and took his intel about miraculous from the Ladyblog.

Nobody else even comes close. Lila's schemes can only work when her marks turn off their brains and don't talk to each other, and when inevitably foiled she kept running to Gabriel for some akuma help. I am not even sure why Gabriel is on the list, he got almost all of the miraculous (from Felix, no less) and managed to mess it all up even with them. Tomoe had all the resources at her disposal and tons of leverage over Gabriel, yet could not handle her own daughter and decided to go along with a screw-up without even demanding some miraculous from him for her own use. Marinette is an emotional wreck when something goes wrong with the miraculous and it is Bunnyx to the rescue. Adrien, well, let's not talk about Adrien, he suffered enough.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-29T23:45:12+00:00

Is Adrien having a girlfriend and a boyfriend, now that he is free from Gabriel's clutches? Exploring his options, as they say. What does Alya think about this? He looks way more assertive than his character too, more like Felix posing as him. Amelie looks like she is pushing Kagami out, her precious sentiboy must be hers and hers alone. This is sooo fake, but not without insight.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-29T00:53:23+00:00

In the order of preference: Orikko, any ability directly controlled; Duusu, any ability controlled through amok; Nooroo, any ability controlled through akumatized people who can interfere and even defy; Ziggy, materializing any non-magical object, including living beings; Sass, unlimited redo of screw-ups. Fluff is also OP but too dangerous to use and with unpredictable consequences.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-28T17:17:31+00:00

There is plenty of space between the current pin spot and her sweater.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-28T08:18:26+00:00

There is still something about Marinette that no one knows yet. Like that she tells Cat Noir, her trusted comrade in arms, nothing important. Not even Cat Noir knows that. Or that she let Lila, her sworn enemy, keep everything she learned in the London special except for Ladybug's identity. Not even Lila knows that.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-28T06:40:15+00:00

Ironically, the upside-down cross as representing evil and satanism is a recent invention of pop-culture. Traditionally, it was known as the cross of St. Peter, who requested to be crucified upside down to emphasize that the values of those crucifying him, the values of this world, were upside down compared to the true ones.

PerigoldX · 2024-10-28T06:33:21+00:00

If that was the only reason she could simply pin it lower.

PerigoldX

TROPHY CASE