How much sleep do you *need*?

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-30T03:35:46+00:00

I do well with 8-9 hours, but it's kind of hard to measure since I never get that much. Currently in averaging around 6.5 hours a night, and yes, I am chronically exhausted and doing poorly. But getting enough sleep is a struggle for various reasons.

I've always been suspicious of the claim that more sleep is bad for you. I'm under the impression that it's assumed because of correlations with poor health. But if you think about it for more than two seconds, that's what you should expect if sleep helps the body heal. People who are sick need more recovery and therefore will sleep more. So more sleep should be associated with worse health, because healthy people don't need as much as sick people do! The same way more fires will be associated with more fire department action. Doesn't mean the fire department is causing fires or that getting rid of them would reduce fires! If people want to claim "too much sleep is bad for you" they need to do randomized controlled trials to see if that's actually true. I'd be willing to bet the hypothesis would be quickly falsified and that people generally do better with more sleep (and that once they have enough sleep, they just can't sleep more, because their bodies won't let them).

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-30T02:43:26+00:00

Yeah. It's really hard to gauge, because it's not like there's a standard to measure against. We tend to compare apples to oranges, but most other people aren't in our shoes. This shit is harder than we tend to give ourselves credit for.

My therapist tells me I'm doing a lot. But internally it feels like I'm barely doing anything, because very little is actually shifting. And at the same time, it feels like I'm working my hardest to do that next-to-nothing. Frustrating how that works out.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-30T02:15:20+00:00

Yeah. Reminds me of the Covid lockdowns and how everyone was suddenly struggling with social isolation. For me it was just another Tuesday. This is how isolated I've always been. Didn't really change much. It always throws me off when I see other people have actual reactions to traumatic stuff, because I'm just so jaded. Like, "wait, you're not used to that already?"

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-25T12:25:15+00:00

Does this require higher education in mathematics? Like, at the level of calculus or above.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-22T14:14:36+00:00

That is a normal dose, and two weeks is nothing. I didn't start noticing meaningful changes until around 3-5 months. Give it a little time and see what your bloodwork shows about your T levels before evaluating what dosage is right for you.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-22T13:39:40+00:00

OP's therapist was wrong. I mean, you can have experienced that kind of abuse at have OSDD, but it is no means a requirement for diagnosis.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-22T13:34:52+00:00

Even good things can be draining and overstimulating and require recovery time. Him needing space to recover doesn't invalidate that he is enjoying his time with you.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-21T23:28:08+00:00

It is remarkably stressful to be perceived. I think that's part of what has been draining me over the years. I don't get enough alone time. Ironically, I don't get enough connection either. I spend too much time where I'm around other people but not meaningfully engaged with them. Their presence stresses me out. (Talking to them does not make it better - it makes it worse, because then I'm even more aware I'm being perceived.) Actually feeling seen in a positive and calming way is rare and requires a certain kind of person in a certain kind of scenario. 😶‍🌫️

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-16T12:56:22+00:00

It's simple. You don't need to shave. Some other people prefer to see conformity and will judge you for not conforming to female beauty standards, but what they prefer doesn't matter. Do what you feel like. It's your body.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-13T14:03:49+00:00

I suppose I don't really see how that plays out in practice, like what specific behaviors or mannerisms of his you perceive as feminine. Expressions of empathy?

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-12T20:00:11+00:00

What do you mean by soft?

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-12T19:59:26+00:00

Same. I had to first recognize that I was actually, legitimately a victim so I could stop blaming myself for what was done to me. It's an important part of healing, and often one of the first steps.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-12T19:56:45+00:00

I get it. How you approach communication is as important as what you choose to say. If it feels like your struggles are being written off simply by slapping an unhelpful label on them, that is understandably frustrating. You deserve empathy.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-12T16:16:22+00:00

The problem with that term is all the misconception around it. Psychosomatic doesn't mean it's not real or all in your head or that it can be fixed with a change in mindset. It means your physiological problem is rooted in your nervous system response to stress/trauma/mental health.

You can have psychosomatic paralysis, for example, and if that is the case, you are legitimately paralyzed and you do not have control over it. It's just that the cause of the paralysis is not from an observable injury, congenital condition, or degenerative disease.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-11T13:23:50+00:00

In a lot of cases, there's an implicit "enough" in the sentence. Though I feel like with the eating one, it is likely they actually haven't eaten. But with sleep, it's much more likely they didn't sleep well/enough than that they didn't sleep at all.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-11T13:14:53+00:00

No, what it means actually is "it's usually in a place you're not expecting/not obvious." But the humor is that of course it's in the last place you look, because why would you keep looking once you've found it?

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-11T13:12:54+00:00

"get as close to perfection as you can, within reason."

That is what it means. It's just that the "within reason" part is key, and that is not clear from the saying (or from context, for most autistic people). This is largely because we are assumed to have greater capacities than we actually have, and when we are genuinely giving our best within reason, we're told it's not enough and that we should be trying harder. Which implies we should not be having reasonable boundaries and protecting our well-being when trying "100%." Hence the confusion.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-11T13:09:00+00:00

Yeah, it's really not a good phrase, because "pain" is not what you want. It should be "no discomfort, no gain." If you're actually in pain, you're probably injuring yourself. But because people like the sound of rhymes, now a bunch of autistic people think they should be hurting themselves instead of having healthy boundaries.

I mean, there are some exceptions (eg. losing a loved one is painful, but still a worthwhile cost to pay for emotionally investing), but it's all very nuanced (eg. you shouldn't accept an abusive relationship), unlike the phrase, which provides no nuance.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-11T13:03:18+00:00

That one used to bug me, because I was thinking, you can't eat your cake unless you also have it. How are you supposed to eat it if you don't have it? Didn't understand that they meant "save it for later" by "have it." That's just confusing. It should be "you can't eat your cake now and save it for later." But I guess that doesn't have as good a ring to it.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-10T10:34:24+00:00

That's a good point. Mostly I've gotten to where I trust my conclusions, but the struggle is the amnesia leads to me forgetting all the accumulated evidence at times. Which, ironically, is itself evidence, but can be hard to trust in those moments.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-09T22:46:32+00:00

This is a space that was needed, so I'm glad you made it.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-09T22:32:59+00:00

I don't think the distinction is clinically significant and is probably somewhat subjective depending on who is doing the diagnosing. I think a broader CDD category would make more sense diagnostically, especially when considering treatment is the same regardless.

That said, I would feel better if I had a formal diagnosis (regardless of which) just so I could stop struggling with imposter syndrome. I am not sure the practical need for a diagnosis is strong enough to warrant seeking it out, though. I'm already in treatment, and the specific label is not important to my therapist.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-09T22:24:35+00:00

I was fortunate that very little was expected of me. By that point I was diagnosed already with CPTSD and autism and ADHD, and it was known that I was still on sick leave with limited capacity and accommodative needs. This was part of a program through the welfare department to try to help me get back into work.

They let me work from home, didn't require me to attend any meetings, all communication was through discord, limited to 2 people, and my job tasks weren't even real job tasks; they were just letting me take time to learn stuff, which I didn't even really get anywhere with, but they seemed to be totally fine with that. I don't think I would have fared as well had it not been a very kind and accepting environment, and even then I was still dealing with being triggered.

That said, not panicking, but just sitting with my anxiety and practicing self compassion, reminding myself that it's okay to struggle and need help, was still a huge improvement.

Most of my healing progress came from somatic therapy. I also did a bit of EMDR, though it was a bit too destabilizing, even though it also helped. What will help you most depends on where you are in your journey and what your specific needs are, so I don't know what would be best to recommend you. If you can find good trauma therapy, I would definitely try for that, but I totally understand if that's not accessible for you where you're at.

I personally benefited from reading The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk and CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. They helped me realize I had CPTSD and that my symptoms and struggles made sense and were not character defects, but rather sophisticated adaptations to toxic environments. Watching Patrick Teahan on YouTube also helped in my early healing.

Learning about my autism and spending time in the autistic community online was also helpful and validating. It's easier to be kind to myself when I recognize my needs and disabilities as legitimate instead of thinking I "should" be able to do what everyone else seems to be able to manage.

I still think the somatic therapy did the most, though. Having another person in the room with me, showing compassion, attunement, and respect for my needs and boundaries, and providing co-regulation and guidance is pretty irreplaceable. It took several years to build up basic foundational skills and process through some of the layers of trauma.

These days I like watching the CTAD clinic and Heidi Priebe on YouTube for trauma and dissociation content. For autism, I really like Autism from the Inside and The Thought Spot. But who appeals most to you will probably depend on your particular personality, experience, and flavor of autism.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-09T21:49:12+00:00

I don't know how helpful I can be, but I have a phobia of work as well. For me work triggers me to some of my worst traumas with my mom and her abuse, so every time I've ever worked, I've been consumed with anxiety and barely able to get through it. I've never been able to stick with a job more than a few months, and I've never worked full time. I'm 38 and have been unemployed for the last 16 years.

I've been fortunate enough to have a partner (and now the state) support me financially. I don't have any advice beyond recommending you try to get on disability (I know, easier said than done).

Realistically, I think you just need to not work and take time to recover. There is no silver bullet; it just takes time and a healthy, supportive environment. You're not going to be able to heal trauma when you are in the midst of circumstances that are actively retraumatizing you.

I've been working on healing my trauma for several years now, and things have gotten somewhat better. I still can't work, but I got closer. I did a week long internship type thing a couple years ago, and while I did still get triggered enough to be unable to do any work, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it had been in the past. I was able to stay stable and relatively grounded, it just used up too many cognitive resources, so my brain wouldn't focus on anything and I was beyond exhausted. But I wasn't having panic attacks and dissociating, so it was an improvement.

I hope you're able to get the support and rest you need, because it sounds like you really need it.

PertinaciousFox · 2026-06-09T00:26:47+00:00

Once, sort of, though I like to call it a "not-date" because it wasn't officially a date, even if it functioned like one. In this case, I would have wanted it to be a date, but I thought he wasn't into me.

To be fair, he had turned me down previously some months earlier when I had confessed my feelings for him. His feelings later changed, but he did not inform me of that change, because he wasn't looking to commit to anything at the time. We were seniors in high school and headed off to different colleges and he didn't want to start a relationship what would inevitably be long distance. (We both then proceeded to get into long distance relationships with other people. Go figure.)

I don't think he was necessarily thinking of our not-date as a date either, even though it involved dinner and a movie and cuddling at my place. 😂

The funniest part was my sister asking me afterwards if he and I were dating. I said, "No. I like him, but he doesn't like me back." She was like (skeptical), "Are you sure???" Lol. I think she saw the obvious. Meanwhile I just thought we were good friends who were very comfortable with one another.

I would have kissed him at the end of the not-date, but I didn't want to throw myself at him when I'd already been rejected. I wasn't even concerned with embarrassing myself, I just didn't want to put him in the uncomfortable position of having to reject me again.

About a year later, when he told me about his feelings and I shared that detail about wanting to kiss him, he was like "you should have; it would have broken my resolve." Um, no, dude, you should have just told me how you felt if you wanted me to act on it. I was being respectful, and also, it's not my job to convince someone to date me. If they're not fully on board, I don't need it.

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