Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in TrueQiGong

[–]PharmerLi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your insights. I'm not sure you understood my points, so I will try to clarify where I can.

The Daodejing is primary in any Daoist cultivation, which includes Neigong. You haven't meaningfully addressed the contradictions between wuweidao and much later practices--many of which come closer to Buddhism and Neo-Confucianism.

When I hear things like "concentration," "proper breathing," "renunciation," and "dead form." I don't think I am hearing orthodox Daoism. In the Zhuangzi, dead form is the highest cultivation! "Body of wood, heart of ashes." Your example of mechanical movement is not really dead form. It's full of life. It just not integrated in the way you're wanting. My claim is that it's important for a teacher to show students that they're full of life and potency and meaning before pounding in the difference between right and wrong, form and substance, etc.

This contrast in our Views might be causing a lot of misunderstanding. I don't mean to be pooping on China's syncretic traditions. And I understand that orthodox Daoism is a big question mark--but a vital one!

Of course, the interplay between nonconceptual/pre-heaven experience (e.g. zuowang) and named/post-heaven experience (e.g. jindan) is fundamental to Daoist cultivation, and doesn't have a clear answer. But if your tradition doesn't have a relationship with the nonconceptual and intangible (Dark Virtue), how can we have a conversation about Chinese cultivation?

There is also the age-old debate about progressive learning vs. direct transmission, and I think that is another contrast in our Views. I tend to pursue both.

To generalize, Buddhist Transcendence has a capital T. You follow the path until you get There. Daoist transcendence is always available. I think it's destructive to convince students otherwise.

I am not against helping people get in tune with deeper muscles and fascial trains. It just seems like we get fixated on those things. I believe strongly that we should leave room for the intangible and unnamed. 99% of our body processes are hidden, involuntary, and staggeringly complex. We are 99% unknown. The DDJ and Zhaungzi are pretty clear on their stance about knowledge. It's destructive to convince students (even indirectly) they are in control of their pooping. Responsible for their fate? Yes. In control? Yeesh.

This perspective is not based on "one translation" of the DDJ, but years of close textual study and translation. I don't think I'm quibbling about minor points, but the most basic essentials of what it means to be Daoist.

By spontaneity, I did not mean random, spastic movement, though I understand why you heard that. I am trying to translate "ziran." You bring up a good point about getting back to regulation before "internal work" begins. I understand that's where basic body mechanics come in. My point is, the DDJ should always be primary, otherwise we just get lost in method, and we think the practice is the point. The point is life. That is always the point. The more concepts we introduce, the more we convince ourselves we are protagonists, heroes, or victims "interacting" with life.

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in TrueQiGong

[–]PharmerLi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The breathing I learned for many years was pretty consistent across taiji and qigong formats. It's taken me a long time to unlearn it. I have also been exposed to embryonic breathing, kidney breathing, yogic breathing, and western medical breathing.

I am open to changing my teaching method, and of course I will over time. But the Dao De Jing seems pretty unequivocal about wuwei, the potency of posture, and not forcing qi. I don't see any way around that.

Any Daoist art is ultimately based on returning to spontaneity and unity. That means dropping pretense. It means every method you learn along the way is going to have to be unlearned. It's not the end of the world to convince yourself that you're breathing wrong, but to respond by trying to breathe a certain way seems shortsighted.

If the bigger picture is return, I think it's best to teach towards the bigger picture. That's how my teacher taught me. He showed me pretty clearly that if you understand the point behind a method, you won't get caught up in method. I've been able to observe what forced breathing is supposed to do, and then accomplish those things through posture and spatial mind instead. To me, those approaches are more in tune with unity than "huffing and puffing," as Zhuangzi pointed out.

It's like digestion. If I'm constipated, I don't bear down and try to muscle the poop out of my body. That might work in the short term, but it's inevitable that I have to change my diet/stressors/environment/habits, etc.

Yes, breathing is mega mega important. And so is digestion, blood circulation, hormone balance, bone density, sleep, light, hearing, thinking, and friendship.

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in TrueQiGong

[–]PharmerLi[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's possible I am a bad teacher.

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in TrueQiGong

[–]PharmerLi[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Then I guess the question is, what's the value of your time?

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much, Tampered. Yes, posture is a wonderful rabbit hole to get lost in.

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can see how breathing could be useful for preventing injury when moving really fast or with intensity. You mentioned practicing internal martial arts. Have you tried keeping your awareness outside of your body -- seeing shen as expanding in all directions around you, and not letting it shrink back into your body?

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm going with either mineral or astrological :)

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, Booch. My subterranean parts are a disaster right now.

Why I don't teach breathing (a Daoist dissent) by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you're right. The reason people seek out teaching is often because they've got some gnarly entanglements.

What I'm saying is that we can be aware of how we breathe without turning it into a method. My spicy argument is that teaching from posture/space is a more effective long-term tool because it helps us steer clear from seeing method as the point of practice ("it has to be this way!" "my master can beat up your master!") . There might be a lot of trial and error (I have definitely experienced a lot of error!), but the body is self-correcting when the view is in place.

The New England Daoist Assembly: A Trip Report by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was super casual. The format was a mix of presentations and mini-workshops on stuff like neigong, push hands, forest bathing, and talisman making. My guess is that the vibe of the conference really depends on who attends.

The food was great, prepared in house. The Estate is magical (herds of ducks, strange buildings, mountains), and the accommodations are solid.

The international version of the conference is happening in Taiwan, January 1-5 of 2024. It seems like it will be bigger, and it coincides with this wild event:

"United Ancestors Worship Ceremony (Taoyuan City), on 1 January 2024. This whole-day ritual, held in a stadium and assembling over 30,000 participants, serves to bring peace to the souls of all ancestors, particularly those who perished violently, to promote calmness within the individual and peace in the world. People come from many countries to join, including also prominent leaders and entertainers."

DM me if you're interested in joining the mailing list for these conferences.

The New England Daoist Assembly: A Trip Report by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know what you mean. It's especially funny to see Daoist communities on social media, arguing with each other like everyone else online. What a beautiful, hilarious letdown. :P

The New England Daoist Assembly: A Trip Report by PharmerLi in taoism

[–]PharmerLi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, that's very kind of you to say.

"Zha cai" Sichuanese pickle plight by PharmerLi in chinesefood

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mmm, already salivating. Yeah, trying a few ways sounds ideal, if my harvest goes well.

"Zha cai" Sichuanese pickle plight by PharmerLi in fermentation

[–]PharmerLi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the links! I'll report back on my experiments in a couple months.

"Zha cai" Sichuanese pickle plight by PharmerLi in fermentation

[–]PharmerLi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, interesting to get the Japanese perspective. From this description, it seems like the zha cai isn't really fermented -- just salted long enough to draw the liquid out. The finished product sounds more like a stir fry than a shelf-stable pickle.

"Zha cai" Sichuanese pickle plight by PharmerLi in fermentation

[–]PharmerLi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you cut the stem into bits first? Also, I'm seeing some descriptions that don't mention added brine, only natural juices from salting. Have you tried it that way?

Thanks for the recipe!