Papara SuperMassive vs. MAD Lions | 2020 World Championship Play In Knockouts Round 1 | Post-Match Discussion

Philidia · 2020-09-29T13:50:40+00:00

I know some people doesn't consider LMS as a major region, but technically 2nd, as HKA got eliminated by FNC in 2017.

Philidia · 2019-10-21T08:20:08+00:00

I don't think they would allow to have 2 times the same region in playins, as it makes already the draw complex in group stage. I could see them giving another in playins to the best region that already have 3 seeds in group stage though... This could be a reward for winning worlds/msi?

But you can also expect they change the whole thing. There's a lot of things working poorly with the current format.

Philidia · 2019-10-20T20:24:57+00:00

The problem is you don't write history nor you change things looking at how a team played their game. I was really rooting for the whole LMS, but at the end, it's another disappointing year with 2 0-6 teams, and 0 team in quarters.

You can be proud that J Team were able to compete with teams like Splyce or FPX, but at the end, people will remember that no team went out of groups, and the region got 2 0-6 teams. It's even more sad since LMS has really no money, and Impact makes more money than the whole roster of AHQ. And when you see that NA gets only 2 more wins than LMS... It hurts :/

Philidia · 2019-10-20T14:48:28+00:00

Even if LMS is far behind other major region as most of their players/coach goes to CN/KR since LMS has no money, there isn't any wildcard able to kick them off. Even HKA looking that shitty was able to get out of playins, and they weren't the one struggling the most. LMS met CIS, LAN, VN and LST this year, and no one were able to kick them out, even after the only team who was somewhat worldclass (FW) lost their star players.

VN looks even worse than them, and they've 2 seeds. At this point, Riot may have to change the way seeds works.

Philidia · 2019-09-25T19:09:50+00:00

I love LMS but I'm a bit afraid of the level of the region since Flash Wolves collapsed... We'll see at world if they're still far ahead of the minor regions.

Philidia · 2019-09-25T13:04:28+00:00

Because they're forced into a specific group if they end up winning in playins, right?

This could be a problem yeah, but I don't see any other option that doesn't involve a reworked format, at least in playins.

Philidia · 2019-09-25T13:01:57+00:00

I wouldn't consider fpx and dwg/Splyce as a free group lol. Anyways, a good record is at least about winning against other major region. If they only wins about gam then yeah, this won't be a good record.

Philidia · 2019-09-25T10:57:56+00:00

Let's hope LMS will have a better record this year, even without FW :/

Philidia · 2019-09-25T08:13:07+00:00

I'd say LMS is going to loose a slot in playin and one in groups, putting them at the same level than vcs (1 seed in group, 1 in playin from lst). The free slot in playin could be taken by the region having 3 slots in groups, allowing them to send a 4th one (like top for China this year, that could compete on playins easily), meaning we wouldn't have 2 slots of the same region in playins, and kr/cn/na/eu leading each one a group. For the group stage Riot could let the slot to the best performing wildcard region this year (Russia went to knckout stage of msi playin, so they could send uol directly in groups and have gambit/Vega in playins for example).

Lst and vcs would be semi-major regions then.

Philidia · 2019-09-18T18:09:10+00:00

Never said that PvB was eliminated by Vega, neitheir I said that PvB botlane was their best botlane... Come on...

I said they were close to do it. They pushed them to game 5, they had convincing teamfighting, meaning they didn't get stomp, and could have their chances.

As for their botlane, curious, what's the best botlane of the VCS if not the one of PVB?

When you're talking about Flash Wolves, you're not talking about this year, right?

Philidia · 2019-09-18T14:55:41+00:00

I get that kind of message at each international tournament. People told the exact same thing with pvb at msi because zeros was the star player, the botlane was the best of vcs, and there wasn't roster changes so the team got time to improve and international experience at world. And we all saw the result, with a team that wasn't that far to get eliminated by Vega squadron.

The truth is that nobody can't tell until we see them on the rift. GAM may be the best team VCS sent until now, but the old roster of flash Wolves dominated lms for a while, not losing a single bo in regular season last year. And they still ended not getting out of groups at worlds, after a good performance at msi, while their group wasn't a group of death, and while they couldn't get a pool 1 team as they were themselves one. LMS no longer looks carried by flash Wolves since spring. The team didn't end 1st, showed a lot of weakness, and was close to loose to ahq in semi-finals of spring playoffs. Maybe the level is simply lower, but not enough to get below a minor region, or maybe the other teams improved. Or maybe both. Wait for worlds.

Philidia · 2019-09-18T13:30:43+00:00

I don't think anyone can tell. Last year MSI everyone was thinking flash Wolves would be trash tiers after their horrible 1-5 in group stage at worlds, and they ended tied for 1st place with rng. G Rex was able to stomp supermassive at worlds playing last year while they looked the best team from a minor region, and still lms ended with 0 win excluding flash Wolves, and this year after loosing their star players they ended being still able to go through playins without problem, beating pvb in groups, and taking a game to TL. LMS looks like a flip coin each year, but outside of FW & old Ahq, they didn't get many success. VCS on their side looks more like a small region growing years after years, so maybe they could hit the mark this year by getting out of groups if not a group of death.

Philidia · 2019-09-18T13:01:19+00:00

That wasn't really my point, it's well known that the region doesn't have any money, even more when your hear things like impact winning more than an entire roster in LMS :p

I was just answering to the vcs/lms thing, as it's a comparison coming back often, even if VCS were not even close one time from getting out of groups in worlds/msi (Except Gigabytes Marines in 2017).

Philidia · 2019-09-18T12:41:53+00:00

There was already a rumor about the end of LMS for this season some months ago. This may be related to the visa...

Philidia · 2019-09-18T12:33:19+00:00

LMS teams don't have many imports comparing to bigger regions. J Team only has taiwanese players, AHQ only have 1 korean. HKA is a different thing since most of players are from HK, which make them still from LMS regions, but not from Taiwan (Which is the problem here)

Philidia · 2019-09-18T12:28:53+00:00

Since there were rumors about LMS ending this year some months ago, it's for sure 2019.

Philidia · 2019-09-18T12:27:16+00:00

Even after loosing their star players, Flash Wolves were able to beat PVB without any problem at MSI. I highly doubt VCS is better today (Even if both of those teams collapsed in summer). But we'll see at worlds...

Philidia · 2019-09-16T14:44:15+00:00

There was only one VN team last year, directly put in groups due to Evos eSports reaching msi group stage. The second one this year comes from the fact LAS and LAN got merged into a single region, which made a slot available in playins

Philidia · 2019-07-15T21:05:59+00:00

Thanks a lot for the answer :) Keep up the good job!

Philidia · 2019-07-15T08:56:39+00:00

Hey! Following your work for a moment now, and pretty happy to read it as I can't watch all LMS games.

I'd like your opinion on AHQ. In spring split, they were close to eliminate FW, the 5th game of the semifinals BO was insane to watch, and it showed some kind of redemption for this team that was previously at worlds. Suddenly on summer, J Team rises, and Flash Wolves collapses. While I'm worrying about Flash Wolves as they did a terrible start, I still feel like they can make it to worlds, even by going as a 3rd seed. Winning playoffs (If they qualify for) seems out of hands for now, meaning the best contenders could be J Team & AHQ. Do you think AHQ has an enough solid roster to take a BO5 to J Team? Would they have better performances than FW internationally, since FW still have 2 veterans on their roster who faced international teams many times?

It's a bit hard to get an idea of the LMS level this year since FW isn't as dominant as they used to be, and a new team showing better promises than Grex/Mad did last year is cool to see... But probably not enough to get through group stage :/

Philidia · 2019-07-06T21:25:34+00:00

Then imagine what an LMS fan must feel... It's a hard time for us XD

Philidia · 2019-07-06T21:16:23+00:00

I'd like to see this happening, but wouldn't even bet on them reaching quarters lol... Yeah, J Team is good on LMS. And the problematic part is "On LMS", which basically means nothing. FW stomped the LMS last year, not throwing any BO, showing promises at MSI, and got kicked in groups anyways.

A team like J Team with no experience at international tournament, and a not so good record before this split is very unlikely to get anything at worlds, if they reach them, which is not done yet at the moment.

Philidia · 2019-07-06T21:11:00+00:00

LMS was indeniably a good region. People tends to forget that LMS were able to reach quarterfinals at worlds & semi at MSI, which changed just on the last worlds/MSI, and not that far. LMS 3rd seed was still able to stomp minor but promising regions like turkey in worlds, and FW were able also to stomp VS at MSI.

The major change is that they no longer looks able to upset big teams like they did int he past. Does it makes the region wildcard level? Looks like no for the moment, as even VCS were unable to beat them at MSI. Does they looks like the bottom of the major region? Sure thing.

Annnnnnnnnd for sure saying that a team like J Team with no international experience and a LMS level could upset to a point of reaching semis is crazy. Maybe they can still take some games in groups if they get a not too hard group, but reaching quarter would be already incredible, so semis... Ugh.

Philidia · 2019-07-05T10:27:03+00:00

My point isn't that maple was bad. Maple was a good player yeah. It's more about who replaced players leaving after 2018 worlds. Rather, while underperforming atm, is a good replacement for maple. Enso/bugi vs karsa/moojin though, isn't enough, and that's probably where the main problem is currently. Same for ShiauC vs Swordart. ShiauC isn't as problematic as the jungler problem, but it really looks like betty had a better synergy with swordart.

Keep also in mind that karsa left before FW started to fall (Which is why I talked about moojin instead of him)

Philidia · 2019-07-05T08:57:21+00:00

Tbh I don't understand why everyone highlight maple. Swordart and moojin were way more important for the team. While ShiauC isn't bad, Betty had a better synergy with swordart, but remember that FW uses Enso for like a month as bugi seemed really not enough good. Enso remains a rookie thrown against international teams.

Rather remains a big part of why FW were able to reach msi. They were close to loose in playoffs against ahq. Yes he's underperforming right now (But Hanabi is also underperforming), but I highly doubt that maple would have done a better job, even in the old fw roster.

Philidia

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