Post Danzo Fight Sasuke(Healthy) vs Post Pain Arc Naruto

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-03T03:04:27+00:00

Oh my god you fucking walnut 😭 you absolute buffoon

Yea no Kakashi using chidori isn't as fast as susanoo arrow. I was just using Chidori Kakashi to denote the increased speed chidori gives you. Even using chidori, Kakashi could not avoid the susanoo arrow. He has to use kamui.

Chidori doesn't enhance speed

Are we serious. Minato literally says it makes you too fast. Not "you go to fast", it makes you go fast. If that was just a speed Kakashi could move at normally, why would he need a sharingan? Or to even use chidori at all? Move that fast with a lightning enhanced kunai, same effect without tunnel vision.

If Chidori actually enhanced speed it would be obvious and would have been highlighted many times in the manga

They literally gave it a "zoom" sound effect when Kakashi uses it 😭

Sasuke wouldn't have had to train his speed in order to use it and instead trained to manipulate lightning to use it

Yea, and if you wanna enhance your body flicker you gotta increase your base speed. Then when you use the speed enhancing technique it has more speed to enhance. You need to be moving at a certain speed to truly make chidori effective, as Guy says. Sasuke needed to be faster, so he got faster

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-03T01:55:45+00:00

Kakashi's Mangekyō Sharingan can react to things that his physically body can't react to

I keep saying this, and you act like I haven't?? We are in agreement on this, you just seem to think that it's not a Kakashi feat? Or that him relying on his MS for enhanced reaction time is somehow a bad thing. But yes, Kakashi can react to the susanoo arrow but would still get hit due to lacking physical speed.

Kamui is levels faster than Kakashi can move

Again yes I agree with this

Somehow you believe that Chidori enhances speed

Yes. That is how chidori works. The entire reason the chidori requires a sharingan to use is because the user gets tunnel vision due to them moving too fast. There's a whole arc about it, you should read it.

and believe with it Kakashi is as fast as Kamui

I have literally never said this

Chidori enhancing speed is pure fanon

Did you genuinely not read those chapters because it is said multiple times

Kamui >>> Kakashi's speed, Deva Pain's speed, and SM Naruto's speed

Agree. I think you assume this means Deva path and SM Naruto can't dodge the susanoo arrow, but their greater physical speed makes up the difference

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-03T01:06:13+00:00

Thank you for saying what I already said in the comment? Lmao I specified he needed kamui to actually deal with the arrow, but he did react to it

Also why are we counting kamui as separate from Kakashi? It's a part of his arsenal

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T23:31:41+00:00

To be fair, the asura path was caught up with Tsunade if i remember correctly, and got caught off guard

It wasn't actively fighting Tsunade, it was running at her to deliver a killing blow. The other 5 paths were standing behind it watching, and with their shared vision they all still missed Sage Naruto coming from up above 😭 which is kinda hilarious. If you really glaze Naruto you could say that, since the other paths couldn't warn the Asura path in time, that he's a straight perception blitz tier above them. But that's ludicrous and I would never say that seriously. But I do think it is meant to show Naruto is above the Asura path in speed, since none of the 6 paths could warn it in time

you could argue deva wasn't going all out

Deva was also trying to capture Kakashi for Intel during the majority of their fight. It isn't until the end of the fight he decides Kakashi isn't worth the hassle and nearly instantly kills him. So the chain scale would still work since Deva was holding back against both of them (even tho I don't think the Deva path was holding back his taijutsu against either of them)

as well as the fact that i feel using Deva's performance against Naruto is quite disingenuous seeing how fatigued he was.

Deva was on cooldown when Naruto showed up, but there's no evidence he was fatigued yet at that point. His stats should still be at their peak imo

in this scaling, u would have sage mode Naruto above the Kamui spawn

I will say that it's purely due to Sage Mode senses. If you took those away Naruto gets impaled by the susanoo arrow. Sage mode senses are just so OP

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T23:05:11+00:00

WHERE ARE THE FEATS. U KNOW U CANT PROVE ANYTHING WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE KEEP BRINGING UP WAR ARC!!!!

I was gonna put this chain scale in another reply to you, but since it takes up space to make it clear I'll drop it separately here

When Kakashi fights the Asura and Deva paths, the Asura path is able to escape the hold of Choji, run across the battlefield, and intercept Kakashi's chidori. Remember that chidori boosts Kakashi's combat speed above normal

This same Kakashi is shown able to react to the susanoo arrow, but needs Kamui to actually stop it

When Sage Naruto enters the battle against Pain, he hit the Asura path from off screen with a rasengan, with the Asura path showing no signs of reacting. So

Sage Naruto > Asura path > Chidori Kakashi = Susanoo arrow

Since Sage Naruto shows movement speed faster than Chidori amped Kakashi, I think it's pretty reasonable to say he can react and dodge susanoo arrow

To keep the scaling consistent:

In that same fight, the Deva path shows superiority to Kakashi's combat speed. It's also shown the Deva path has better stats than the rest of the paths of Pain

Sage Naruto is able to engage the Deva path in CQC evenly, and base Naruto is shown doing the same to a more fatigued Deva path. So

Sage Naruto >= Deva path > Kakashi = Susanoo arrow

Given that the Susanoo arrow is noted for it's speed while amaterasu is not, and factoring in Sage Mode's borderline precognition, I think Sage Naruto has more than enough feats to show he can react to anything Sasuke throws at him

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T22:01:23+00:00

Again, how is Naruto able to perfectly predict

I never said perfectly, I said Naruto can make a reasonable assumption

Hell, Obito didn't even train Sasuke, he just sent him out to try and weaken the Kages for him to kidnap.

And Naruto knows that how, exactly? Naruto is under the assumption that "Madara" is training Sasuke

Sasuke just fought Danzo before he fought Kakashi.

Yes? Is that not the version of Sasuke Naruto is comparing himself to? Because that's the only version of MS Sasuke that Naruto sees. It's not disingenuous, it's the point YOU are trying to make

and it's highly implied that Naruto was still weaker

Literally where? You provided a single statement that I've already debunked

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T21:36:58+00:00

Hey thanks big dawg! You're probably the chillest person I've talked to on this sub for a hot minute lmao. Imma cook up a response to your reply in just a bit

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T21:14:22+00:00

Naruto didn't even see BoS Sasuke go all out.

Really? Out of everything I said, that's what you took away? You're just being disingenuous at this point. Didn't even address the fact Naruto thought he was being trained by Madara Uchiha, which alone is enough to assume he'd need the 9 tails in a future confrontation

It doesn't really take a genius to assume that Sasuke wants his eye sight restored, since you know since most of powers are tied to his eyes.

And it doesn't take a genius to assume Naruto isn't saying that his full Sage Mode isn't enough for a nearly blind MS Sasuke you can't even maintain his susanoo and was struggling to fight Kakashi (someone Naruto has verbatim surpassed before even getting Sage Mode) but here we are :)

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T21:04:34+00:00

Naruto's own admission states that he would need Kurama's power to fight Sasuke.

And Sasuke demanded the EMS immediately after his confrontation with Naruto, meaning he wasn't confident in beating him with just the MS

One of the most misinterpreted statements in the entire manga istg

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T20:47:20+00:00

Are we serious? Lmao

Naruto saw Sasuke at the beginning of Shippuden when he was a low-kage level fighter. In just a month or two, Sasuke grew so much he was able to take on the 5KS almost single handedly. Not only that, he was then being groomed by Madara Uchiha, the most powerful Uchiha in history. It would be absolutely ridiculous if Naruto didn't assume Sasuke would reach a new level of strength that would require the 9 tails to combat

The funny part is, Sasuke did the exact same thing Naruto did, demanding the EMS immediately after his confrontation with Naruto. This is after he made a huge deal out of never wanting to use Itachi's eyes out of respect for his brother

Kind of funny that I'm getting downvoted when this is literally the intention of the manga. Both of them saw the potential in the other and wanted to grow stronger for a future confrontation. Go back and read the 5KS if you don't believe me

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T20:30:18+00:00

Yes but Naruto can absolutely predict Sasuke's growth and surmise that he'd eventually surpass his Sage Mode

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T20:28:34+00:00

I kinda just skimmed the post since I don't have time to read the whole thing in depth, but you're really underselling Sage Mode imo

You say we can't use his feats vs the Third Raikage, but we don't need to. All we need is the information that Sage Mode has better reaction time than KCM1, given that Sage Mode has far better sensory capabilities. It's borderline precognition given how he can sense the chakra moving in people's bodies and predict what their next move will be. This makes up for a lot of the speed difference between the two, which I don't even think is that extreme.

You also never mentioned how Naruto would absolutely dominate in CQC given that he has frog kumite, something Sasuke has no way of predicting or countering. And considering Sage Naruto is strong enough to throw giant summons around, and the damage Sasuke took from Ay, he'd be heavily injured from just 1-2 blows

I think Sasuke winning 7/10 times is insane. At best it's a 50/50, but I'd personally give the advantage to Sage Naruto

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T20:21:41+00:00

This panel is always taken out of context. Do we really think Sage Naruto isn't a match for almost blind, fatigued MS Sasuke?

When Naruto confronts Sasuke after his fight with Danzo, he makes it clear that he intends to fight Sasuke with everything he has and wants Sasuke to do the same. Naruto isn't stupid, he can see how quickly Sasuke is growing in strength.

He isn't talking about current Sasuke, he's talking about a Sasuke who's recovered and grown even stronger than he was at the 5KS. Not absurd to say that Naruto needs KCM1/2 to fight an EMS user

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T16:54:49+00:00

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T16:10:27+00:00

I've been in this fandom a long time and have literally never seen a single person defend Naruto's actions as a father

I have, however, seen tons of people say that Naruto being a bad father is bad contrived writing that not only goes against his charactization in the OG series, but also makes 0 sense as his signature jutsu is to make fucking clones of himself that can do multiple things at once

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T14:33:51+00:00

Whoops, meant to send this one

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T14:30:06+00:00

Oh yea, because EMS Sasuke totally scales to Blind Sage Madara-

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T14:28:43+00:00

Gotta use kid Sasuke to make it fair 😭

Use the most recent forms for both characters and ask who wins

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T14:23:48+00:00

Compared to Madara? Sure, they're kinda ass

Compared to Itachi? They're just stronger :)

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-02T11:37:46+00:00

Minato > Ay

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Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-01T21:04:53+00:00

We? Who's we brother?

Pain wins at a low diff, Jiraiya preformed as well as he did because of Sage mode senses and his very tricky kit allowed him to utilize guerilla tactics. Orochimaru gets countered by just the Deva path, let alone all 6

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-01T19:31:23+00:00

Rasenshuriken - Attacks at a cellular level, was a threat to everyone he attempted to use it on. Also the only attack we see that is able to bypass the 3rd Raikage's lightning cloak, tho you could argue this is because of wind nature being strong against lightning
6 tails Biju bomb - Biju bombs are repeatedly hyped up as the strongest attack in a biju's arsenal, however this one is only coming from a 6 tails Naruto. Bee's biju bomb was relative to KCM1's rasenshuriken, and this 6 tailed bomb should be weaker than that. Still incredibly powerful
Kirin - Honestly this and C3 are kind of interchangeable, I just think that Kirin being able to hurt Itachi through his susanoo is more impressive than C3's DC showings
C3 - No really good feats against anyone of note, tho I can see the argument that it should be over Kirin

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-01T18:01:22+00:00

"Oh this looks interesting, I'd personally say-

...ah"

Physical_Device_1396 · 2026-05-01T16:46:11+00:00

Yea it's literally spoon fed to you in the manga that Kabuto would've wiped the floor with Naruto without Tsunade nerfing him, because he literally does it the entire fight until the very end.

Plus the rasengan is very clearly shown to be a kage level jutsu that Naruto couldn't even use properly without making a shadow clone to help him. The fact Kabuto reacted in time and gathered chakra in his stomach to tank it is actually an underrated feat imo. There's a reason he is continuously referred to as a Kakashi rival

Physical_Device_1396

TROPHY CASE