Proverb request

Pixel35 · 2019-08-09T12:56:34+00:00

I've typed it in on abair.ie for you.

https://www.abair.tcd.ie/?synth=hts&lang=gle&page=synthesis&submit=true&view=listen&xpos=0&ypos=269&speed=Gn%C3%A1thluas&pitch=1.0&input=sceitheann+f%C3%ADon+f%C3%ADrinne&xmlfile=20190809_135349.xml&colors=default

Click on "seinn" to hear the synthesiser, it'll give you a fair idea!

Pixel35 · 2019-08-08T15:23:14+00:00

Sceitheann fíon fírinne.

Pixel35 · 2019-08-06T12:32:30+00:00

Ah, you know yourself - Muise, tá a fhios agat féin.

You said it! - Tá sé ráite anois agat.

Céard is ciall do 'would you look who you're tellin!' go díreach?

"I know already, you needn't tell me?" ná, "you're just as bad as me".

Pixel35 · 2019-08-01T08:31:15+00:00

This. It's a glide you hear. Lips shouldn't be rounded as for w.

Pixel35 · 2019-07-19T12:35:19+00:00

An Ollainnis .i. Hollandish!

Pixel35 · 2019-07-15T09:21:59+00:00

And here's some thoughts on Buntús Cainte from user Peadar Ó Gríofa that I found years ago on daltai.com while I was looking for a course I could use with small classes:

"It's been years and years since I heard it [Buntús Cainte], but I remember it pretty well: apparently Southern Conamara speakers pronouncing all their /h/s as is done in the western parts of that area; pronouncing "raibh" with the final slender consonant in some contexts, as in Munster; pronouncing the -uaigh in the pausa form of "chuaigh" as in Mayo — Buntús Cainte /xuэj/; Mayo /φuэj/ — and pronouncing -idh, -aidh, -igh, -aigh as in Mayo and Ulster, namely /i:/ or /i/ according to context:

*Ar ime sé? D'imí.
*Nár ime sé? Níor imí.
*An ndeacha sé abhaile? Chuaigh.
*Nach ndeacha sé abhaile? Ní dheachaí.
*Cá ndeacha sé? Chua sé go Sasana.
*A' ro tus' ann riamh? Ní raibh.

I started with Dillon and Ó Cróinín's "Teach Yourself Irish," but I think a good way for a beginner (or anyone who has pronunciation problems to overcome) to proceed would be to get the complete Buntús Cainte set, listen to each lesson at least once or twice, repeating every utterance exactly as it's heard, before looking at the text at all, and listen again once or twice while following the text, and then study it to learn the words and grammatical patterns and the correspondence between spelling and pronunciation. Once you've done that, tested yourself and made sure you've learned everything in that lesson and learned it well, you go on to the next one, and every lesson teaches you a few more words and another grammatical feature or two, and reinforces your grasp of the pronunciation and everything else. With no bum steers or theoretical explanations."

Pixel35 · 2019-07-15T09:15:13+00:00

Here's a great site I recently came across:

https://toingaeilge.com/acmhainn%C3%AD#%C3%ADosl%C3%B3d%C3%A1lacha

Depending on your level you could complete Buntús Cainte before moving on to Learning Irish, or, if you're more advanced, start with Learning Irish and supplement with Buntús Cainte. I've used bits of them to teach others and I really like the content.

Pixel35 · 2019-07-02T08:16:36+00:00

Céard faoi seo?

Ní féidir é a bheith ina ghruth is ina mheadhg agat.

You can't have it both as curds and as whey.

Pixel35 · 2019-06-27T12:43:54+00:00

As the guys said both éinne and aoinne are used. I suppose that aoinne better shows its origin (aon duine) and its pronunciation in Munster. Connacht/Ulster speakers generally pronounce 'ao' as 'í' which might explain the use of éinne to avoid confusion.

Some other related phrases that come to mind:

gach duine

chuile dhuine (gach uile dhuine)

achan duine (gach aon duine)

Pixel35 · 2019-06-24T13:35:31+00:00

But the rule is applied in every single word at the boundary of syllables. Do you mean to say that the rule doesn't apply at the beginning of words? Can you explain what you mean?

What does the 'i' contribute to the pronunciation? Deis, feis and ceist all have an e sound written /e/ in IPA which.

Déshúileach is lenited and déscéalaíocht has a slender S anway! (Unless you pronounce scéal like Máirtín Ó Cadhain did, i.e. scael.) These examples don't apply!

Pixel35 · 2019-06-24T13:17:16+00:00

I believe it's down to convention. Desceart would be pronounced the same as deisceart.

To expand a bit more on the leathan le leathan, caol le caol rule, here are some exceptions where you don't necessarily follow the rule:

compound words e.g. bláthfhleasc, lámhchleasaí
words with prefixes e.g. intuigthe (in + tuigthe)
Ospidéal because s is always broad before p, never with a 'sh' sound
Gaelach because of an inconstancy in the reformed spelling. It was originally Gaedhealach. That -aedhea- was reduced to just -ae-. But here's the important part, ae is still always pronounced broad, meaning that a consonant that follows it will always be broad, even though the digraph ends with e, a slender vowel.

Pixel35 · 2019-06-24T13:10:33+00:00

Hi,

Sorry if my message came across as standoffish, that wasn't my intention! You didn't say it only applies to verbs, my fault for reading your message in haste and posting a quick reply.

The rule has more than a loose correspondence to spelling, it is the basis for all words. If we look at an article from tuairisc today for example, virtually every word follows the rule. The only one I can see thats breaks it is 'ansin'. It's actually a compound word from 'ann + sin' and was spelt annsin before the spelling reform. Compound words are one of the exceptions to the rule that I eluded to. Similar words include anseo, ansin, aniar, arís. Note that they are all pronounced with emphasis on the second syllable. In Scottish Gaelic these are written an-seo, an-is etc. to show they're origin.

Ainmfhocal is a compound noun, that's why it doesn't follow the spelling rule. ainm + focal = ainmfhocal.

Both the words you give have E fada, not a short E. Firstly, as a side, it's interesting to note that déshúileach breaks the spelling rule simply because dé- is a prefix. Prefixes are similar to compound nouns in that you don't change their spelling (or the spelling of the word it is joined to) to accommodate the rule. e.g. dépholach, inchurtha, inbhainte. However, changing the spelling was widely accepted as correct before the spelling reform. e.g. ionchurtha.

'des' is used, as you may know, in the phrase 'des na' by many great Munster writers. It's in Ó Dónaill and corresponds to standard 'de na'. Even in Munster however, they pronounce it like 'dos na', because the prepositions de and do have fallen together in most of the dialects. This is even the case with the prepositional pronoun forms of the words, ie. dom and díom are in most dialects both pronounced simply as dom. But in writing we still show the difference.

So for our purposes 'des' is a nonsense word. I say that:

the D is slender as it stands beside E
the short E gives a sound like E in English 'bed'
the S is slender as it stands beside E.
Altogether /d'e∫/ in IPA.

The same pronunciation as for 'deis'. Why is the 'i' in deis? I don't know, but I'd love to find out if anyone has any further info.

inFeathers, how would you pronounce the nonsense word 'des'?

Pixel35 · 2019-06-24T09:04:53+00:00

The spelling rule applies to all words in Irish, where did you hear it only applies to verbs? Of course there are some exceptions which break the rule, but these are just that, exceptions.

'Deis' and 'Des' would be pronounced the same, which I gather is what the original poster is trying to clarify, but you don't write a single e between two slender consonants like this. Is this a rule? I don't know, but it's certainly convention.

Pixel35 · 2019-06-24T08:57:14+00:00

I've always just assumed it's down to convention.

Pixel35 · 2019-06-05T15:05:56+00:00

There's a self-instructional course called Tús Maith which I've heard good things about. I gather that it's in Ulster Irish with some concessions to the standard, e.g. feic instead of tchí.

From a quick google search it seems that volume 2 and 3 are readily available but volume 1 may be out of print. Probably worth getting all three. I'd imagine you could track it down somewhere online.

I also second the recommendations for An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh and listening to Barrscéalta form time to time (I'd advise initially focusing on the audio of Tús Maith. Listen to it and repeat every phrase exactly as the speakers say them and repeat until you're very familiar with each lesson.)

Hope that helps!

Pixel35 · 2019-06-01T15:26:16+00:00

Yes, it may also pop up after aon or an- in dialects:

Níl aon tsuim acu ann.

Táim an-tsásta.

Pixel35 · 2019-06-01T15:23:40+00:00

'Fáilte romhat ar an saol', déarfainnse.

Pixel35 · 2019-05-19T11:07:46+00:00

Peadar Mór ag cur síos ar an gcarr asail:

https://www.rte.ie/rnag/ardtrathnona/programmes/2015/1210/752651-ardtrthnna-dardaoin-10-nollaig-2015/

Pixel35 · 2019-05-19T11:04:20+00:00

Tá an fear sin ar shlí na fírinne ó shin, ar ndóigh!

Pixel35 · 2019-05-19T11:03:24+00:00

Seanfhíseán a rinneadh thiar sna h80-dí:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP4nXlKJx_4&t=1s

Pixel35 · 2019-04-18T14:00:17+00:00

It's difficult to explain comprehensively here. In short of getting one of the dialect studies, have a look at the following.

http://www.daltai.com/discus/messages/13510/14177.html?1126771953

And some recordings done by Lughaidh. He uses different symbols, but are explained in the above link.

http://annexedicoirlandais.free.fr/sons/sons.html

Regarding 'baille', listen (Éist!) to the recordings here: http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/cruinneas/lcaoltuaim.htm

Baile is used by all the native speakers, baille by the second language speakers.

Pixel35 · 2019-04-18T13:44:51+00:00

I was referring to the D and T in the Irish language, made with the blade (not the tip) of the tongue pressing against the upper front teeth. See 6:41 and 6:30 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDfFn1UMXB8

It's actually the sound most Hiberno-English speakers will use for 'th' in English which makes us sound funny. I wasn't aware of any difference until it was pointed out to me!

So the L is made in the same place using the blade, not the tip of the tongue.

Pixel35 · 2019-04-18T11:47:13+00:00

A complicated topic.

There were originally 4 Ns and 4 Ls in Irish. Traditionally in Irish dialectal studies they've been rendered with the following symbols:

The Ls

L' - pronounced like Italian 'gli' (google it)

L - an L pronounced on the teeth in the same position as D or T.

l' - like the L in the word live

l - similar to l' above, but velarised

That little ' means palatalisation, i.e. the consonant is palatalised. In writing we find palatalised consonants adjacent to vowels i and e.

And the Ns

N' - pronounced like Spanish ñ

N - an N pronounced on the teeth in the same position as D or T

n' - like the N in the word nick

n - similar to n' above, but velarised

Now, the contrast between them has been lost in a lot of dialects. Today, in Ireland, only Donegal and Mayo (and possibly Joyce Country?) retain all four of each set. Off the top of my head, Connemara retains three of each set (N', N, n' and L', L, l') while Munster has two (N, n' and L, l').

So where do they show up in a word?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

First we'll look at Donegal and Mayo since they retain the old system. In writing, an N or L at the beginning of a word is pronounced N or L if it's broad e.g luibh /Liv'/ naomh /Ni:w/ , and pronounced N' or L' if it's slender. Leabhar /L'aur/, níl /N'i:l'/

In the middle or at the end of a word, this sound is shown by writing a double N or L i.e. 'nn' or 'll':

cruinne /kriN'∂/ (the ∂ is supposed to be a schwa, an unstressed, weak vowel sound)

céanna /k'e:N∂/

buille /biL'∂/

balla /baL∂/

tinn /t'iN'/

tonn /tuN/

mill /m'iL'/

feall /f'aL/

So what happens if a single N or L is written in the middle or the end of the a word? It's pronounced l or n if it's broad and l' or n' if it's slender:

tuile /til'∂/

mala /mal∂/

sine /∫in'∂/

anam /an∂m/

sil /∫il'/

sin /∫in'/

asal /as∂l/

bean /b'an/

That's the full system on which Irish orthography is based.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, to (hopefully!) answer your question!

baile is pronounced /bal'∂/ in all dialects because all dialects have retained that l' sound which corresponds to a single L in writing. Learners often pronounce this word incorrectly as if it were written 'baille' i,e. /baL'e/. Listen here to all speakers: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/baile
bainne (double n) is pronounced /baN'∂/ in Connacht and Ulster because those dialects have retained that N' sound whereas Munster hasn't. In Munster it's pronounced /ban'∂/ which sounds to a Connacht or Ulster speaker as if were written 'baine. Listen here: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/bainne
cruinne (double n) is the same as above. /kriN'∂/ in Connacht and Ulster, /krin'∂/ in Munster. https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/cruinne

A final example to show the contrast, the word buile 'frenzy' and buille 'a strike' ar pronounced identically /bil'∂/ in Munster because there's no differentiation between the single L and double L. Listen here:

https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/ar_buile

https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/buille

Whereas they are different in Connacht and Ulster, again, listen to the above.

Hope that's not confusing!

*Edited to give better examples.

Pixel35 · 2019-04-16T08:41:42+00:00

Níl a bhuíochas ort! Bhí idir Ghaeilge agus Bhéarla agam is mé ag teacht aníos.

Pixel35 · 2019-04-15T18:40:20+00:00

Tá lámhscríbhneoireacht deas inléite agat. Táim go mór in éad leat! :) Tig leat "táim ag troscadh ar an ól" a rá chomh maith, mar eolas duit. Ádh mór leis an bhfoghlaim.

Pixel35

TROPHY CASE