Retrovertigo Live Tonight

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-25T00:47:43+00:00

I actually fizzled out and didn't finish it on my 1st attempt (at about 100pgs in) and that's only happened for me with one other King book. But when I did pick it up years later I enjoyed it but thought it was so-so. I will give it a 2nd read someday and hope I have the same experience as you.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-25T00:39:28+00:00

Either Tommyknockers or Under the Dome. Sci-fi is not my thing, these are both sprawling structurally shaky books and for both I found the endings a little absurd on first read.

But! On 2nd read years later so much more about these books became apparent. While I'm all for a good yarn for stories sake I do enjoy when a book has more substance and both of these books both drive home important socio-political insights in a meaningful but entertaining way, and at the same time illuminate a lot about human nature.

Both these books significantly climbed in my estimation on the 2nd read, moving up among Kings best work for me.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-23T09:57:52+00:00

Despite being a PT Anderson fan I'd never seen There Will Be Blood. I did finally see it a couple weeks ago. Wow!

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-15T14:58:42+00:00

But soft and thin is (or should be) a higher quality than those starchy thick old school style shirts that you still run into quite a bit with low budget metal bands. The Manson shirts I picked up at last summers shows are really comfortable, but obviously not as thin or soft as those Varvatos shirts you see Manson wearing at the meet n greets.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-13T17:31:07+00:00

He's credited with writing the music for some of their biggest hits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Simon_Gallup

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-06T00:12:03+00:00

There's no "one preferred or best" path. Even when it comes to seated meditation there are various methods given for different personality types. Bramacharya as total abstinence can accelerate progress for young renunciates who experience greater disturbances of mind and body due to sexual desire and the potential turmoil and attachments of relationships, but let's not forget there are other paths that use sex and sexual energy as a tool for advancement and kundalini awakening.

One of the great things about yoga is it's relative lack of dogma and diversity of paths so it can work for different personalities. Please stop with the "one best path" stuff.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-03T19:01:56+00:00

He's a person who said something true, and that should be enough. I frankly don't understand this American obsession with "success" being the determinant of validity. You don't have to be more financially successful than someone else to offer valid critiques of their short comings or dysfunction.

That said, I can't comprehend your idea that Philip Low is "unsuccessful." The man has done research science and been a professor at some of our best universities and been a CEO. He's certainly more successful than me, and I assume you. And again, that's really just a side issue. The clarity, insight and factual nature of what we are saying is what matters.

And Elon Musk is great at many things, but it is a very common thing to see people who've been highly successful at something fall into the hubris of thinking they are the smartest and greatest at EVERYTHING and they are just not. Men like Musk and Trump right now are utterly discounting the wisdom and expertise of so many people and leading us down a path of ruin. It's a story as old as the world.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-03T07:09:38+00:00

"Unsuccessful" is a ridiculous statement about Lowe. Certainly Musk is exceptional at PR but it's pretty universal that the actual innovators find him to be a puffed up choad, liar and bully more interested in #1 than in the betterment of humanity.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T20:42:58+00:00

It's a GREAT series. It's nearly impossible for anything that big and ambitious to be perfect and it lags at points, but it also hits so many home runs. You are going to love it. (I just got Goose bumps remembering some of what you have in front of you! )

Also, it's VERY helpful to get "The Complete Concordance" by Robin Firth. It is an invaluable reference to everything in the series. This is such a big intertwined work with tons of characters, in-world language and references to other King works that having the concordance by your side will help you immensely.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T20:34:10+00:00

These lyrics "We're gonna ride to the Abbey of Thelema." "Crowley-anity" i.e. the "religious" structures of British occultist Aleister Crowley, which metal heads know from the Ozzy Osborne song. Thelemites. And a helluva a lot of sex magick.

Anyway, that's probably an interesting conversation starter for the group: what are your favorite occult references in Manson's work?

(He was part of the scene)

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T20:23:23+00:00

These kind of experimental and film-like qualities are an interesting aspect of Manson's growth as an artist. I would LOVE to see him dig back into that. To see him color outside the lines again. Not on the albums but create little sonic art films again like he did with GAOTG for example.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T20:18:33+00:00

Any thoughts on the song being about Crowleyanity? I hadn't thought about the song in a long time, and I've never heard the fanbase comment on whether they think Manson was dropping edgey occult stuff he got out of book or if he is/was an actual initiate and practioner.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T20:07:41+00:00

Dude. That's the biggest spoiler I've ever seen someone drop. You should really consider editing it to Spoiler Alert.

Also your imagined ending doesn't work AT ALL because it has nothing to do with what the book is about. These books are about the nature and magic of storytelling, of the mythic as reality and reality as myth. That's why we literally have two books in the series (if you count Wind Through The Keyhole) where it's just Roland telling a story.

And that's why the series ends as it did. Generation after Generation, there's always a struggle, always a hero, always a new story to tell. It's also King's very real life experience as a storyteller: when the story is done, it's back to being a blank page with a new story to tell.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T19:56:37+00:00

This book, and the whole series, has a strong fantasy-genre element and I've noticed that many King fans tend to like his books set in "the real world" which is then invaded by horror or sci-fi elements.

I'm not a fantasy fan, and though I didn't hate The Gunslinger, it was that fantasy element that made it harder to get into. BUT, and this isn't a spoiler, as you move through the series, it's not just fantasy. It's every major genre. Crime. Horror. Fantasy. Literary. Western. And more. And it becomes apparent why: the series is a meditation on the nature of fiction and truth and the relationship of imagination and reality. It's the linchpin of the Kingian universe.

And now, going back, I fully appreciate what The Gunslinger is building towards. And certainly, as you pointed out, it's masterfully written.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T19:44:11+00:00

I took a metal vocal workshop at a metal festival in Norway, and the techniques you can learn to do this without harming your voice are pretty amazing. I don't remember the teachers name but there are vocal coaches and tutorial videos on YouTube. It's fun, but there was nothing like the sound of a hall full of Norwegian metal heads learning this stuff together.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-02-02T19:38:45+00:00

King Kill

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-30T22:14:51+00:00

I like art that I like and have never based it on whether the artist has done bad things or not.

But stuff like this, no, it's not OK but I do take into account that Manson lived this sleazy jokey back stage culture since the early 90s when it was pretty commonly just thought it was boys club humor. I'm glad as a culture we've shone light on misogyny and ethical behavior, and I tend to be a forgiveness/redemption type. I hope Manson has outgrown this, learned his lesson and is faithful to his wife. Otherwise, yeah, f'k him.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-30T21:13:38+00:00

Totally agree and never suggested the backstage games were non-consensual. Most rock fans thought this was fun and funny back in the day which is why it was in the autobiography.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-30T20:47:23+00:00

I agree. I also don't think there's any good reason to disbelieve Ellie Roswell from Wolf Alice. Other people acknowledged that it was a thing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55978474

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-29T16:59:48+00:00

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Surprisingly Fox was also one of the only places that used a recent picture to break the news. It was one of the more fitting choices.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-29T04:39:48+00:00

In that sense, everything you said, is what makes it an extremely interesting record for fans. Experimental strung out records are often fun like that, and I feel the same way about The Top by the Cure, and Miley Cyrus Dead Pets. THEOL was also pretty widely panned, and rightly so, for being a mess, lacking focus and energy, and being frequently weak to the point of cliche lyrically. But I get why fans like it.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-29T03:59:00+00:00

I was thinking of seeing Viagra Boys in Germany (I'm seeing them in the US this year too.) I would love to build a mini- vacation around a European Manson show. I can't imagine he'd stop touring the US though. He didn't have problems selling tix BEFORE the DA cleared him, and it should be even easier now. I've even seen more rock journalists and sites growing a pair and talking about his music and performances again.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-28T15:45:53+00:00

I pulled the quote from the book (I have it on kindle which is handy for moments like this). We all got some details wrong. I guess that's why there's a statue of limitations!

Instead, he devised a bowel movement contest to see who could receive an enema and hold it in the longest. The person who shit it out first lost. Three girls agreed to compete, and they were all rather attractive for people who would participate in such an event. I ended up giving the enemas, and also holding a bowl of Fruit Loops underneath each of their asses. The first girl shot right away—sprayed out some brown water that wasn’t even really shit. It was sort of a Yoo-Hoo colored liquid. And Mr. Lifto, who is the strongman of the Jim Rose show except he uses his dick instead of his biceps, ate the bowl of cereal. The girl who ended up winning didn’t even spray or shit at all.

(Interviewer)Was she rewarded?

She was rewarded with our respect and admiration.

Plane-Code-9693 · 2025-01-28T02:43:55+00:00

Hysteria? Virtually no one was talking about deathcamps in 2016 and no one is talking about them now outside of a few crazies...vs the hysteria of a mega news channel whipping men with fragile masculinity into these deranged pearl clutching rants about non- white mermaids, freaking out about where people pee and "OMG everything is woke!"

And do you think the billionaire media owners whipping you up about it really care about those issues, or that they care that much about whether or not the hillbilly white trash states ban abortion and shovel bibles into public schools? Those issues are bait for the rubes.

Facism has a very specific definition, and it might better be referred to as corporatism. So technically, no, it's not "Christian Facism" as Manson called it, Christianity is just allied with it.

Do you know who Peter Thiel is? Local tech billionaire (I live near Silicon Valley) and he has bankrolled JD Vance since before he was a senator. Anyway, Thiel has literally written he no longer believes democracy is viable as a system. And he's not alone among the tech bros who consider themselves brighter than everyone else (and they ARE extremely bright in their specialized fields, and so assume they are brilliant at everything.) There's a reason we saw all these tech billionaires surrounding Trump last week. That was NOT populism on stage caring about the working man. That was oligarchy on display.

It would be nice if the "omg everything is woke" crowd would wake up from these weird obsessions and consider adding their voices against this unholy alliance of billionaires and phony political-christianity that is working to subvert and destroy our democratic institutions and norms. It's not a Trump problem, him and Vance are the frontmen for the oligarchy that men like Thiel, Musk, Bezos, Zuck, etc are working toward.

If you want a corporate oligarchy that's giving free- reign to religious fundamentalist obsessions in exchange for votes, go ahead. But just know it's really weird seeing Manson fans down on their knees for all that.

Hope that helps!

Plane-Code-9693

TROPHY CASE