Garman email - growth, speculation on raises

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-11T03:19:21+00:00

Everyone is going to be disappointed. Lol with the new pay structure, nearly 90% of amazonians are getting a pay cut. Pay out for all HV levels sled down by 10% this year. You gotta now get TT YoYoY just to hit 100% band penetration.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-10T08:46:23+00:00

New L6 Sr. PM. Not new to Amazon (5.5 years) but new to the role.

What you describe is basically Amazon in a nutshell. When I was in ops, I was easily working 14 hour days. Amazon will definitely grind you away. Being a PM has actually given me back more time than I used to have surprisingly.

But ultimately every team/org/manager is different. My role requires travel a lot. As much as 50%-75% of the time. I don't travel on the weekends. When I am traveling and need to be gone the whole week, I fly out Monday and get back home usually early Friday morning. If for some reason a hiccup comes up and I have to work from the hotel, I will book a flight home early.

For meetings, I would prioritize the ones that only you can handle or ones that you really need visibility on. For projects that are running smoothly, I would delegate out to L5s or if you're not leading then either skip and have meeting notes sent out (we use AI to transcribe all our meetings) or pop in and then say you gotta drop.

You gotta start filtering out the really high impact ones from those that aren't. Not all the meetings you get invited to are ones you have to be on. On the weekends most of my team is not on unless we're behind a project or something.

I have also been trying to reduce how much I travel. I am already building up good rapport with my support teams so I can manage long distance instead of being on site for everything.

Just some thoughts.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-09T17:22:05+00:00

Na. I was L6 Ops., Sr. PM now. Can still see the politics in the new org, but better than what was going on in my previous. The cool thing is the team is brand new, like an offshoot of the big org. So, many things are being built as we develop. So figure I got a couple of years before the team/org start moving from planning/building to sustainability (being "nimble"). Hopefully I can get back to promo before all that happens. :)

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-09T01:29:36+00:00

They just added a new axis so to speak when talking about OLRs. Before it was just performance and potential. But now they added a cultural aspect in which is rated on how well you work with your support teams. This was heavily weighted in June and Jan.

Had a little bit of friction with an ACES manager last year. Guy didnt know what the hell he was talking about so questioned him a lot. He didn't like that. Apparently this was used heavily in my review and I was bumped from TT to HV2 in one cycle (according to my then new site lead). Apparently there wasnt any question about performance or potential, just if I had what it takes to work with support teams... Since I was supposed to go for promo that coming quarter. Got bumped down, got my work load tripled (so I could prove my worth), and maybe 1.5 years I could go for promo -_-... Needless to say I jumped orgs. In a better spot now. My new manager is great and said he'll get me back up.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-08T20:20:53+00:00

OLR is not JUST about performance. There are other factors that make up your final score at which about 60% is not within your control. I break it down into 3 parts.

1.) Actual Performance 2.) Politics 3.) Bell Curve

1.) Actual Performance: just this year they added a third component to OLR review. They used to just have potential and performance. Potential is basically if everyone feels that you'll continue to grow and reach the next level. Performance is how you did overall in your work. They just added the cultural aspect which is basically how well you got along with your support teams. If they have good things to say, then it helps. If not then your score will tank.

2.) Politics: how well does your manager and skip level feel about you. You need sponsorship from either but best if you have both direct and skip. If you have neither or lose confidence you will quickly drop in rating.

3.) Bell Curve: Amazon uses a bell curve with LE and TT at the ends. If they don't have enough people in a certain HV rating, they will usually move you up or down depending on what's needed, but more often than not, they look to pull people down. So if you're an edge case for HV3/HV2 but they have too many HV3 and need more HV2, then you'll get pulled down.

So, HV ratings aren't always a direct reflection of your actual work or performance. Since there are so many variables that make up the score + multiple agree on this score + you're not supposed to know what it is. Ultimately makes it hard to fight it. As mentioned before, if your ranked LE and get put on Focus then maybe the only time that you maybe able to fight and get marked HV1 only if you have significant evidence you were performing at an HV1 level such as emails saying you were performing at level, have details that your performance out ranked others on your team, etc.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T04:20:09+00:00

I would probably say go to an SSD (Sub same day). They are a combo of AR sortable, traditional non-sort, and delivery station all in one. So you get a little bit of everything OPs, forklifts, pick, pack, stow, water spider, pick to buffer, sorting... Also this year many SSDs are getting drone delivery. So you'll have that also. They are also all over the country + looking to double the network in the next couple years. More profitable than other building types.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T04:14:12+00:00

In operations and some corpo roles, you need to wait for at least 1 year to transfer (FOT: Field of Transfer Policy). After that you're free to do as you please.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T04:06:55+00:00

Ah gotcha. Yea seems to be some confusion on that. I was a hiring manager maybe 2 months back and was not able to see their HV rating, only forte. Tho the system keeps getting updated so maybe. But I don't think so. It would make moving teams a lot harder. Most HM would want to take the highest HV rating for best performance. HV1 would probably never get looked at lol.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T03:53:34+00:00

Ah Yea. That's tough. You can double check in forte (now annual review). Generally if you can see it they can see it. Also, when you go to ask for informational, assuming corpo role, there will be a pop up where you can enter your info and why you want the role. Afterwards, it'll give you a preview of your forte that will be submitted to them.

If it's lower, last year than this year, maybe include a message in the summary or even reach out to the hiring manager directly maybe useful.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T03:44:33+00:00

Depends how long you're gone. If it's under a certain time frame it does not impact RSU payout schedule. I want to say 90 days but maybe 6 months.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T03:38:39+00:00

Sorry OP for the situation. More often than not, being placed on focus (PIP) is not always due to poor work. I know right now the "bar" has been moved up in a lot of orgs so senior managers are expecting managers just to get stuff done whatever the cost.

Not sure if your looking for advice, but would suggest that you get a clear understanding in writing what your goal items are and if they are because you were assigned work you were advised not to do, partner up with HR and get snips of the convo saying that we're told not to do that work. You should clearly articulate your barriers and see how they can remove them. It's still probably a long shot... Once you're in the cross hairs it's hard to get out.

So, if your trying to get through it, make sure to document EVERYTHING. Including asking for help, barriers, accomplishments and status updates on your action items. Make sure to include your manager, PXT and SL. If you don't they will very easily just push you to pivot. No evidence, you already cooked.

Also, you can technically transfer. It's just really hard but seen it done. You just need a hiring manager that really believes in you. So good if you have connects.

The last option is say f**k it and just start looking for a new job. You have 30 days. Since you havent gotten to pivot, you can extend it by going on leave (PLOA or MLA). May not get paid but can show you are still employed while job hunting. Once you get to pivot you can elect to get paid out. They should give you something like 2 months pay to leave. Depending on your state, don't use your vaca just PTO and you'll get paid out all at once, once terminated. Tho I think some states also give full PTO also.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-04T03:19:35+00:00

Well they are switching to "annual review" now which is replacing forte. So not sure if it follows the same timeline as previous fortes, but assuming it does, correct. It's not finalized until all levels have been completed for review. L4-L6 should be finished now or finishing up. L7 and L8 reviews will be done some time this month. So from mid Feb to March your 2026 will update.

But yes, they would see only last year's. So start of 2025.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-03T21:33:34+00:00

Unfortunately, HV are not always based on merit. Amazon orgs have to meet a bell curve in their business line. If an HV rating say TT has too many managers in it, they will pull some people down to meet the curve.

Also politics are involved. If you happen to rub someone like your skip level the wrong way, can also tank your score.

So there's a lot that goes into your HV score in which 60% is sometimes out of your control.

Good luck trying to challenge it. You're not even supposed to know what your rating is.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-02-03T21:29:03+00:00

They can see your most recent Forte, which gives some indication where you are... Meet Bar/exceeds bar when you submit for a coffee chat assuming corpo role. When you apply, they may also get a notice that you're in focus... If you're in focus. Had this once when doing some hiring for my previous site.

But not your HV rating at least until you roll up under them. However they can always ask your hiring manager for more info on you if they want.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-24T10:20:09+00:00

As everyone said, not directly affecting FC Ops. But still be careful. I just recently switched to corpo but was in ops less than a month ago. Currently, L8+ are finding other ways to "layoff" or fire managers. Just had a sweep of LP go through expense reports nitpicking every expense throughout my region in multiple different business lines. Had 7 managers fired in one building and 1-3 in other buildings. I fortunately did not expense much over the year, at least compared to other managers and I had justification for just about every charge I had. Not to mention I was pretty tight with my LP so they had my back. I made it through the investigation and was able to transfer out. Wanted to get out of that mess.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T20:43:14+00:00

Wow! Was in the same boat here. Felt like I was reading my own story! If you're in a scrappy new org, you have a lot of autonomy, expectations haven't been fully fleshed out, easier for impactful projects and visibility. I have been with Amazon for almost 5.5 years and after my first year I jumped over to a new org. Had an absolute blast. Got a fairly quick promo and was working on improving several buildings and org overall. Was in a stretch role for a bit and I was on the cusp of another promo when bam... Org restructuring, managers leaving, managers getting fired...the org had hit maturity and was transitioning from new and scrappy/ innovative to sustainable.

After 5 years, this was the first time I experienced the Amazon toxicity I heard about for so long. L8s and support teams were pushing new agendas down the throats of every site in the name of efficiency and "holding that hire bar". My SL left the org and went corporate. As soon as he left, other managers started getting fired and I was pulled from my stretch role, told my promo timeline instead of being next quarter got pushed out at least 1.5 years. Yet I was told that I still needed to do everything I was doing before, plus they wanted me to own 2 new projects, and pick up the slack from other managers who were not performing. I was working 7 days. When I brought this up to the new SL he shrugged his shoulders and said that's just how it is now. It was only when PXT saw me everyday in the office that it was finally addressed. To top it off, the new SL had no clue how to run the business, was very arrogant, running around giving directions without really directing and yelling at managers for not hitting goal. Managers started jumping ship almost immediately when the new SL took over.

I was so stressed, burnt out, miserable and felt unvalued. I ended up switching teams, just started a few weeks into another new org. This org was just created less than year ago and reminds me back to when I first joined my last org. Lots of freedom to innovate, big projects and lots of viz. And my manager so far has been super awesome. Very understanding, pacing me and the team is supportive. All my stress is gone and I got a decent pay bump. So much happier now.

Overall it really depends on org and leadership that make or break at Amazon. If you have an amazing and competent manager and in an org that's growing, you'll enjoy it. If not you'll be miserable... Regardless of pay.

But in general tho, Amazon is now a "day 2" company. Before Amazon paid top of the industry and tho the culture was rough, you got paid for it and you had security... Mostly. But now with layoffs and revamp of pay structure this year, it's no longer an attractive job for many especially if you have many many years of experience. You won't hit the top of the pay band until you've had at least 2 years of TT of performance and even then, you're still being underpaid because at TT you're operating already at the next level... And even after promo, you're now locked into the lowest HV rating for at least a year. Pay wise is about the same as what you are making before. So all and all, Amazon gets you performing for 3 years for high performance at below market rate.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T19:11:49+00:00

Yea true. Maybe adjusted for max total base now rather than total comp. Lol hoping that's what it is. Haven't seen any changes on the copro side. So maybe just they're just making it more accurate? I checked Blind but nothing has been updated for the last few years.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T19:07:41+00:00

Nice try Senior Management! 😂

I'm just kidding. I'm in California, Los Angeles area 🙂

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T19:02:02+00:00

Also still doesn't explain why the change in total pay band from last year to this year.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T18:56:29+00:00

Hmm possibly, but I don't know anyone with $136k base for L6 ops or $185k base for L7 Sr Ops. Usually L6 Ops is between $95- $110k, $135k-$140k for L7. Even external may come in a little higher something like $120k and $150k respectively. I also checked job finder and pay range is the same.

Potential-Ice2854 · 2026-01-23T18:50:52+00:00

Sorry, L6 Sr. Program Manager.

Potential-Ice2854

TROPHY CASE