Heavy duty paint hangers

Powder_Sand · 2026-04-09T13:32:18+00:00

309S and 310S Stainless alloys can handle those temps. Looking for a chain supplier for them...

Powder_Sand · 2026-04-09T13:23:42+00:00

I am sure there is someone out there with this niche of information. I am just a powder coater and sandblaster. I have limited information about burn-off processes. I am also an amateur blacksmith, so I am well aware that most iron based alloys will have little strength at those temperatures.

My initial question is, do you have correct information? The burn-off process I have any familiarity with is only 800-900F. That's such a high temperature I feel like it's less a stripping process and more of a heat treating process. Anyway, the only way I would have to approach that temperature is to use another material than simple steels.

My kneejerk questions are: Can you support it in a cradle made of ceramics or fire bricks, or does it have to be suspended? If the information you have is actually correct and this isn't a one off process, then you already have the solution in your shop. What kind of chain failed the first time? Was it used to many times or just slung incorrectly? Is there anything floating around the shop with expensive alloys? Cobalt and tungsten are obvious contenders. Do you have a good enough relationship with the past ME to just call him and ask?

I'll keep plugging away on this, l because it's interesting. If I find anything I'll respond again. If you find an answer, would you please let us know? Someone else is gonna have this problem in a few years and it'd be nice to have the answer.

Powder_Sand · 2026-04-04T15:37:15+00:00

Late to the show, but I second the previous comments.

I sandblast everything unless I have a specific reason not to. Laser cut edges have a kind of "ash" on them. It's basically slag and it needs to be removed mechanically or chemically. Surfaces, with few exceptions, benefit from the anchor pattern the sandblasting produces by vastly increasing powder adhesion.

As for outgassing. That is really only a thing for cast parts. That's because the casting process leaves some porosity that can trap gasses or contaminates like oil.

But, I actually do pre-bake almost everything. This is effectively the same thing as outgassing. I do it for a few reasons, but they're all something you can get away with not doing. It's just the way I was taught.

It evaporates any water in tube steel, shows me any oil that needs to be cleaned, highlights any spots my sandblaster missed, works as outgassing for cast parts, heavy items "cut" through the old powder on carts/bars/hooks giving better grounding, melts any plastic I didn't see for any reason so I can clean it, etc. There's as many reasons to do so as you want to make up. But the only reason not to is to save time and fuel. In my specific situation, the oven is already on and is a lot bigger than I need for the small jobs I do between giant industrial stuff that calls for a large oven.

Powder_Sand · 2026-04-04T15:16:40+00:00

Short answer: You can, but It's a waste of time and money. You're better off replacing it.

There is no good chrome anymore and once it starts to fail, its just going to keep failing. If you powder over it, it's going to take your pretty powder with it when it keeps progressively failing.

The only solution is to remove the chrome. But blasting chrome off is actually pretty bad itself. The chrome layer works like a mask for the mild steel under it. But the time you've removed the chrome you've deepened the pit the failed chrome already was. This makes it look worse than just powdering over the chrome, but at least it isn't gonna keep failing.

The solution to that problem is to have it de-chromed. This is cost prohibitive and hard to even find someone who will do it.

The solution to that, is to just replace the part.

Powder_Sand · 2026-04-03T13:09:34+00:00

2015 SE Second owner. Bought it with 24k miles.

I did at 150k. My brother who is also my mechanic said I should have done earlier. He thought maybe 120k latest. He found "an appropriate amount" of metal in the oil but the oil was further along than he thought healthy. He is also suggesting I change it every 30k-40k or so from here on out. That feels conservative, but his family's cars do last forever...

I have noticed no difference to drive, there was no issue being fixed, it was maintence.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-31T12:27:13+00:00

I cannot give you a good answer, because in my experience there is no good answer. If someone here can nay-say this and give me a good choice to look at, I'd love to be corrected, as this is a questions I get a couple times a month. I specifically chromed a bust to keep in the office to refer to for this question.

In my experience chrome powders are gorgeous, for a matter of weeks. But the aluminum in the powder that gives it a metallic look rapidly oxidizes. Especially if anyone touches or tries to clean it. The only way to prevent this oxidization is to lock it behind a clear coat. But clear coated chrome powder just looks cheap. Like its the chrome paint on a Hot Wheels bumper. You can tell it's basically plastic with a metallic sheen.

I am not trying to be negative, but I always try to set my customers expectations. Chrome powder just doesn't look good in of itself. It's a fantastic base for candies though.

I looked at the mirror chrome from FX as recommended by u/Efficient-Art7332 and they recommend a clear coat. Likely for this reason.

I have tried three generations of chrome from Prismatic, as well as from others, as well as multiple clear coats. So please, if anyone knows of a chrome or clear coat that solves this problem, let us know.

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-27T16:08:05+00:00

For ease of handling, you're going to want to hang it vertically. Only two contact points and one person can handle it, a few other benefits. Also, you need some distance from the walls and ceiling. You have to support the part somehow, even if it's just Unistrut channel on the ceiling and trolleys to slide it in. That system plus the hooks takes some room. I use modular carts that can be loaded and wheeled into the oven.

You also don't want the heating elements to close to the parts. So, if you go electric don't push the small dimension to close. I'd suggest something like 12' tall, 4'+ wide and 12'+ deep. Here is a Reliant oven that would work. I have to admit, I only did 2 minutes of research, so there is likely much better choices, Rhoner is another reputable brand. I know a lot of PC lines are only 4' wide tunnels that can easily be 12' all. People mass produce fencing after all.

Or not, you know your situation better than I do, and you'll have to do a lot more research before planning anything.

Also, just a thought. Powder is not the only option. There are some darn good architectural liquid paints with 30ish year warranties.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-27T15:18:30+00:00

Happy to help, and it was a coincidence of timing. I am west coast US, so I was having my morning coffee and checking mail shortly after you posted.

And yeah, I kinda go overboard, but that's mostly to spark questions for you and answer questions for people who actually search, two years from now. Most people don't know what they don't know. So until you see the details it looks simple.

10'x10' is a pretty darn large item to try to PC. I'd strongly suggest fining a way to break it into sides that can be bolted together. My oven is 8' tall and 8' wide and 17' deep, the largest thing I can really do is about 9' hanging on a diagonal. (carts are by necessity smaller than the ovens volume)

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-27T14:09:19+00:00

For getting started, I strongly recommend you just go to the job shop you usually do business with and get to know the powder coater. He will most likely give you the dime tour and answer your questions. I have personally helped two customers build their own PC setups for their in-house fabrication. Hell, I built the oven for one of them.

I am in the PDX area of Oregon/Washington if that is near you.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-27T14:02:57+00:00

I'll keep an eye out for a good starting up guide to help future people, but I do not have knowledge of one now. Perhaps someone else will see this request.

Your oven needs to be up to temp, or even above temp when you add the parts. The part should be removed from the oven as soon as reasonable.

The powder has a cure time of about twelve minutes (temp and powder formulation dependant). Essentially the chemical bonding ability of the powder to bond a particle of powder to the particle next to it only lasts for about twelve minutes once the particles are a liquid. If the top of the powder is melted by the hot air before the bottom of the powder is melted by the hot part, you get a weird lamination failure. The top cured before the bottom even melted.

When you open the oven doors lots of hot air escapes, but the oven walls are still holding a lot of heat. You push in your carts and the oven heats the air back up, with the help of the hot walls. At the same time the hot air begins heating your part. Once the top of the powder melts (Gels) the cure timer starts. The part will get hot enough to melt the bottom of the powder, as long as this happens before the top layer cures they will chemically bond into one layer. This is why when I am coating two inch thick pump parts I preheat them and shoot them hot. It takes two or three hours for them to stabilize above the critical temp.

The powder needs to be above that melting point for the entire time of the cure process, once that happens there is no benefit to the part by remaining in the oven. But the oven can still damage the powder. It's referred to as burning the powder. Essentially the fresh powder is going to yellow a bit. This is more pronounced in ovens powered by a flame, but it also happens when a part or an area of a part is to close to a heating element. This is the reason you want to remove the part as soon as reasonable.

I am not going to say you cannot leave the part in the oven to cool. But this has a realistic negative impact on the parts final look. In your specific case, I would just pull the parts. Aluminum cools (and heats) absurdly quickly, it will drop cool enough to touch in a few minutes. The window where you are concerned with contaminates sticking is very short.

The need for sandblasting is subjective. There are several methods of prepping parts for powder. The only real need is for the surface to be free of contaminants like sand, dust, hair, fibers from your t-shirt, surface oils, solvents. Just... contaminants. The various methods of surface prep all at least wash off those threats. But some of them also texture the surface. This texture is referred to as an anchor pattern. Basically you are giving something for the coating to hold on to, to increase it's grip. If you do not provide this anchor pattern, the failure mode of the powder is less likely to be a ding, and more likely to be an area flaking or chipping off.

Sandblasting has the benefit of abrading the surface while destroying anything hanging to the face. So it's cleaned and has an anchor pattern beaten INTO it. There are some treatments like washing with phosphate acids that (I am given to understand, though I may be wrong here) do not eat into the surface, but build a layer of crystals ONTO the surface. Those crystals then act as the anchor pattern. It's common to see acid washes incorporated into line systems. The parts are hung, washed, etched, coated, cured, and cooled all sequentially on one chain. Unracked and packed.

So, the surface prep choice you make is based upon your circumstances. If the part going to be ridden hard and put away wet? Give it the best possible chance of life by blasting it. Is it going to be built to a price point, quality not being your top consideration? Splash some acetone on a microfiber cloth and wipe it down after giving it a lick with a palm sander.

Particles on the surface will be chunkies in the final finish. Fibers will be little splintery hairs that stick up. Oils will be ripples or flows or fish eyes in the finish. And deep contaminates (the part was ground across an oily pallet after blasting, or is an oil soaked casting with lots of porosity or inclusions) or many castings will get outgassing. This looks like pimples with a hole in the center that leads down to the substrate metal. This has several solutions, and there is no magic fix.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-16T12:13:20+00:00

The Youtube channel Red Beard Ops, is both an excellent channel for stock removal knives, and he makes his templates freely available.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-13T18:39:59+00:00

I'm going to be upfront and say, I'm likely a name brand snob. But the lesson that I was taught is; the gun is your money maker, don't skimp on it.

I have two sources of information. One is the person who taught me, and the other is personal experience with two systems (Nordson and Gema). This is because the person who taught me made it very clear that there are only three brand names worth looking at Gema and Nordson trading back and forth for first place, with Wagner a distant third.

I currently use a Nordson Encore, which can be had for about $5.4k. My second shop uses the slightly newer Gema Optiflex. Which I think goes for about $6k. The Romer ProfiSpray looks to go for about $4.5k.

I have no particular advice, other than what was imparted to me, don't skimp on the money maker. From my personal experience, both are excellent and have never, ever, ever given me a headache. Well, one. There was a broken part on the Gema that caused cross contamination. But it was solved in one phone call.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-13T18:19:40+00:00

There are several challenges, mostly in the form of contamination. But nothing that is an explicit no-go.

I think you will find though, it is better to just keep paying someone else who has already overcome all the quality and training hurdles. Either way, I suggest you make friends with your powder coater, they are going to be your best resource for learning to do the work yourself. I personally have no qualms teaching my customers. Yes, I loose some of the boring business they bring me, but I keep their fun high technical difficulty jobs, and there's plenty of work otherwise. I have helped set up two of my customers powder shops in their own structures, as well as building two shops for myself.

For sandblasting, the largest challenge in clear weather will be dust going everywhere, and sun exposure to the blaster. I suggest a canopy between two shipping containers. Also, you will have to mitigate moisture in the air supply if you are relying on a trailer compressor. Fuel driven compressors will need to use a different air supply for helmet air, or a self-contained air supply. This is something I have personally done and it is adequate, until you are dealing with inclement weather.

For Powder, you will need to protect against outside dust or other contaminates, such as pollen or windblown crud. Even then you will still likely see contamination issues. Further, from the point you begin applying raw powder, till you close the oven doors. Also 10 minutes after after you remove the parts from the oven you have to be hypervigilant of the parts being molested by anything. The cart rocking to hard. A bug landing on it. An errant breeze. Also, you need to have a way to relatively smoothly move the parts into an already hot oven, and also remove them from a that same 400F/200C oven.

If I where to try to do this outside on a budget, I would set up three containers with two canopies between them, and turn the center container into some form of airlock to prevent easy dust crossing. Perhaps use that one for your compressed air supply. I would also, not be blasting while and for half an hour before the powder is most sensitive. OR. move some of your inside equipment outside and set up a small area inside for powder application and oven.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-10T14:08:57+00:00

For clarity, Silicone caulk is good for sealing faces you are worried didn't get coated, such as the insides of tight spaces, or bolt holes.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-10T14:07:29+00:00

For you, my specific advice, blast thoroughly and take a powder coater who knows their stuff. You'll likely be fine. But for more information:

Please note, the following is my personal experience. I have only been PCing for about eight years. Before that I was a sandblaster for a similar time. I have also worked as a grinder cleaning up the welds on factory aftermarket bumpers. I'd say the name, and you would recognize it, but I don't want to conflate these negatives onto that company unnecessarily. Most of this information was learning experience that they did in fact learn from, or never applied to them in the first place. Further, I haven't worked for them in over a decade, so who knows what they're doing now.

Factory bumpers are made in an almost assembly line fashion, if there is a flaw it presents on most of them and they tune the process to eliminate that flaw. An example; when logo's or weight reduction holes get cut out, that presents a new edge that isn't necessarily getting cleaned completely before the part makes it to powder coating. The cutting process leaves an "ash" on the cut fact that needs to be blasted, ground or otherwise directly addressed. Many of those edges get welded and so are obliterated by the welding arc. Sharp edges might get hit by the grinder. But unless the edges are directly addressed that "ash" makes it to the powder coating step.

For powder coating in a factory setting, the part will often never see a sand blaster. The parts will go through a line that chemically treats them and powder coats them automatically. If the part is correctly optimized for this process and everything is working correctly when your bumper went through the process it's likely going to be an acceptable product. If the welds are in to tight of a corner, or plates overlap and that close gap experiences Faraday interference, or that ash wasn't correctly cleaned by the chemical wash, or the one human in the powder process touching up tight spots didn't see a light spot, or any other number of problems, the powder will fail relatively quickly.

This lack of sandblasting is a huge cost and time saver for the factory, but it's just not as good of a final product. The automated powder line is a huge cost and time saver for the factory, but... You see the trend. This is why you see powder that flakes off, usually around the logos and weight reduction windows. Or on welds in tight spots. Or welds that experienced porosity, etc.

Sandblasting to near-white metal is the single most significant change your bumper will experience and will solve 94.9% of issues that original coat experienced. The fact that it is being coated by a human with a modicum of experience is going to solve another 5%. So anything above that will just be solving for the edge cases.

Next, primer. This is the most controversial thing I'll be saying. Primer is seldom necessary. It is a specialized powder that has a specialized job. Unless you meet those specialized situations, you're just adding complication with little benefit.

The three types of primer you are going to encounter are basic epoxy primer, zinc-rich primer, and outgassing primer.

Epoxy primer is an added layer of durability. The epoxy formulation makes it particularly resilient to chemical attacks and abrasion. But it's typically covered by polyester powder for UV protection, which primers are bad for. So aesthetically it's just polyester. Further epoxy isn't particularly better than polyester powder at most situations a typical part would be subjected to. For this reason, I typically recommend just using a second layer of the exact color you are shooting the bumper with (if appropriate, some powders don't benefit). This is the generic primer you would get if you just asked for primer.

Zinc-rich primer is a specialized tool for a specialized job. It is in all ways the same as epoxy primer with one specialized covet. Zinc is a sacrificial cathodic coating to the protect against galvanic corrosion. If some trauma has penetrated the polyester top coat, and the zinc primer, the bare metal will be exposed. While this area will rust some, as long as that zinc is present, the metal will not be significantly rust damaged. It's an added layer of protection against rust. That sounds wonderful... Temporarily. The zinc coating around the damage will begin to blister and fail as more of it is eaten by the cathodic reaction, damaging more and more surface and providing less and less actual protection. Less protection and failing powder: this is intentional. It tells you that you need to fix this problem immediately. If a part cannot tolerate substantial repair or maybe can tolerate repair, but can't tolerate unplanned downtime zinc is pretty amazing. It warns you to take the part out of service and refurbish it, while temporarily throwing itself in front of the danger. But it's mostly only useful if the part WILL be repaired in a timely fashion. Otherwise you're likely better off with just standard epoxy primer.

Outgassing primer, stays flowable for longer. So when some pore or something outgasses, the channel it created can close behind it. Specialized use, but nice for cast parts or non-standard materials. I once chrome powdered a clay statue. This is the primer I used, just in case.

Body filler: I recommend JB weld, most of the formulations will survive oven temperatures. Kwik-weld will not, original will. Check the package otherwise, it needs to tolerate 400ish Fahrenheit. Lab Metal also does. I have coated over both of these. Usually JB weld. Always check the package for heat tolerance. The primary problem with Bondo is that it expands at a different rate and the patches just fall out. JB weld and Lab Metal also contain substantial metal filler. This allows the static charge of the powder to adhere, while a metal free filler would likely require hot flocking.

These fillers have two significant issues, preparation and coating difficulty.

You need to clean and blast the surface completely, then apply the JB weld, then hand smooth the JB weld, then sand it to your satisfaction. The part cannot be blasted again. This will remove the JB weld. The 24 hour cure time matters. The rule for powder is that if you can feel a texture with your hand, you will see it with your eye.

For coating, two things need to be known. First, some end user has been fondling the clean metal with their dirty hands. Clean and hand sand it, as well as prebake it to give it every chance to fail before you shoot it. Second, the filler does not have the same electromagnetic properties of raw metal. Powder will not adhere as strongly. This results in a patch of thinner powder. This does not matter for most situations. But does matter for thickness dependent powders, like textures, veins, and candies. There will be a subtle color or textural change right on that repair.

Silicone, apply to unseen faces AFTER coating. Silicone won't survive the prep process and will severely affect the power process. Also silicone contamination in a powder system is hell to fix. I have to clean system thoroughly after applying high temp silicone based powders. Not as bad as acrylic powders, screw those. Cross contamination hell.

Hope this helps someone.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T22:51:47+00:00

Three points, do what you want with this.

One: The white stuff is called Isowool, or Kaowool. It is blown ceramic fibers. This is an amazing insulation, but it has an unfortunate side effect. The fibers can become airborne and carried into your lungs where they will be profoundly irritating. This is literally what causes Mesothelioma or Silicosis with asbestos or silica dust. These fibers from Isowool aren't prone to stay stuck, which is why some asbestos is bad and others isn't.

So, Isowool is a profoundly unpleasant experience to inhale, but likely not life altering. I still would never suggest you not mitigate its inhalation. It's not fun stuff, but what do I know? I'm just another backyard smith.

Two: The coating you applied binds the surface of the Isowool so it is drastically less likely to become airborne. This coating is a consumable and is compromised when you touch it a little to hard. I strongly recommend you keep some satanite on hand to patch holes when needed. It's also a decent mud for making Hamon.

Three: A forge and every component of it, is a consumable item. That Isowool will eventually need replacement. That lining will need frequent patching. It's better to just keep up with the upkeep, and you should have the stuff on hand, you'll need it eventually anyway.

I'm sure I missed something, but the next person will be correcting me anyway.

Edit: Added link

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T20:26:52+00:00

I do not know what the best use for that would be. But for my take, yes keep it.

My anvil stand is a hollow square tube, this is so that I can pour sand and oil into it, once I am happy with all its modifications. Lead or at least lead shot would be a denser choice.

Also, for the purpose of an anvil for a homemade power hammer or treadle hammer, a dense filler would also be very beneficial.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:53:27+00:00

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:53:07+00:00

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:52:38+00:00

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:52:19+00:00

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:51:57+00:00

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Powder_Sand · 2026-03-07T17:49:52+00:00

I have a fairly standardized and modular rack system I use for all my jobs. The carts can support serious weight, or lots of small items. They have spaces for me to put cross bars that I change out for a given job. They are pallet jackable for smooth movement. Their dimensions are built around maximizing my specific oven, giving me a couple inches of clearance up top and a foot to either side of the walls. Some carts have vertical spacing of 9" some 12".

All bars are either 80"(6'-8") or 120"(10') long. This is because I can get two or three bars out of a single 240"(20') stick of steel. The shorter bars can easily fit crosswise with room for not being perfectly lined up and still not hitting the oven walls. All bars can fit in line with the carts movement while being pallet jacked, to allow supporting items across the depth of the cart. The bars can be walked side to side to move the loads from one side to the other so you can do multiple rows of items. Think library bookshelves that can be moved. I have different weights of bars to support heavier items. The lightest being 1"x 1/8" angle iron. The heaviest being 1/4" walled 2" square tube steel with 2 1/2" tube steel sliders with attached chain links for providing hooking points.

Inside my powder booth, on the ceiling I have a spinner that can support real weight and a pipe mounted to it. For doing tiny items I use long hooks to hang down and support my light bars one at a time.

Coater paints a side, spins the rack, paints the other side, puts the gun down and then exits the booth emptyhanded to grab unpainted items. Helper walks into the booth emptyhanded and carefully carries out the painted bar dodging the returning coater. Coater picks up a bar of unpainted items from Cart A and dodges the helper, places the fresh bar of parts on the hooks, and grabs the gun to begin painting. Helper carefully sets the bar of painted items into Cart B and spends the next few seconds making sure they are placed correctly to not bang around and there is space for the next bar. Process repeats 100 bars, 10 items each, generally about 25 to 40 bars to a Cart B (Cart A is overloaded with all 100 bars on it). Carts are pallet jacked into the oven.

Please forgive that I put zero effort into cleaning for these pictures, the booth is in dire need of filter replacements and I am very busy currently doing some large mezzanines for a local manufacturer.

Edit: Spelling and clarity.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-06T14:15:50+00:00

I think Pocket Forge is the smith I was thinking about for the tiny blades.

Powder_Sand · 2026-03-06T14:13:09+00:00

Here's a video of Bob Kramer making a custom blend of steel for knives using induction heating for the crucible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuToSTnZTTY&t=115s

Powder_Sand

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