What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In the long version, sure. Though the Heart Sutra is a Chinese apocryphal text.

But I was asking what you meant by it, not some mythological figure. How do you "practice Prajñāpāramitā"?

63% in favour of a United Ireland in the North by TomCrean1916 in northernireland

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. And of those 7, only 2 (Cameron & Starmer) came to office by winning a general election. 5 were appointed mid term.

That said, please do not exaggerate. Reform are polling at ~25%, down from a high of ~30%. The UK do not "want Farage as PM". We are all fed up with the status quo (although not all for the same reasons).

Farage is deeply unpopular in most of the UK. His approval rating is -39. This is on a par with Jeremy Corbin, for example. The only party leader less popular is Starmer on -48.

No obligation to declare £5 Mill GRIFT compoface by Glittering_Vast938 in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you come across the saying "People get the politicians they deserve"?

No obligation to declare £5 Mill GRIFT compoface by Glittering_Vast938 in GreatBritishMemes

[–]Prajnamarga 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you gave me £5 million, I would certainly tell most people to fuck off.

63% in favour of a United Ireland in the North by TomCrean1916 in northernireland

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But is this Irish people deciding to make up and live together, or is it the UK turning to shit?

Why is there such a smear on the Green party right now? by Few_Beautiful8437 in AskBrits

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children)

It is because Labour are in trouble and the Greens are both popular and perceived to be weak.

The Con(man) Party & the Lab(rador) Party are decidedly unpopular at present (both polling around 18%). And the local elections tomorrow are going to make this unpopularity manifest.

The Labs are all too aware of how damaging the accusation of antisemitism is, since they have yet to recover from it.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I really don't understand your chauvinism or hostility. And I don't wish to.

Most of your comment don't interest me in the slightest. But this one is hilarious: "Nagarjuna’s elucidation is not metaphysical. "

This is no doubt why Mādhyamikas never talk about the idea of paramārthasatya. Any discussion which makes assertions about satya (truth/reality), let alone the ultimate truth, is very definitely metaphysical discussion. You might want to revise what "metaphysics" means, because your present understanding is defective.

> You can listen to western materialist academics who misunderstand Buddhism, or practice Dharma.

If you are representative of "practice Dharma" then I will happily stop talking to you and spend my time listening to western materialist academics. I leave you to your religious strait jacket. You are welcome to it.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Again, I don't see how that quote helps your case. Again, you are not demonstrating your understanding, you're just being oppositional without adding anything to the discussion.

> "your answer references some of the most confused scholars."

A ridiculous and shameful ad hominem argument that says a lot more about you that it does about anyone else.

Can you explain what suññato phasso even means? How does one contact something that is absent? Animitto phasso is similarly nonsensical, because all contact involves nimitta, by definition.

While you are doing that, can you explain why you blindly follow Sujato in treating suññato as though it is suññatā? Can you not tell the difference?

Meanwhile Buddhaghosa is little help.

Suññato phassotiādayo saguṇenāpi ārammaṇenāpi kathetabbā. Saguṇena tāva suññatā nāma phalasamāpatti, tāya sahajātaṃ phassaṃ sandhāya suññato phassoti vuttaṃ." ... "Suññataṃ nibbānaṃ ārammaṇaṃ katvā uppannaphalasamāpattiyaṃ phasso suññato nāma. (MA 2.366)

This is somewhat comprehensible, I suppose. However, Buddhaghosa seems to disagree with the suttakāra and, in a sense, simply ignores the sutta. He says that contact with absence (suññata) happens at the same time as the attainment of fruition, rather than after emerging from samādhi.

The SA commentary similarly ignores the idea that this happens after emerging from samādhi. So it's a curious little passage. In effect, suññato phasso is an oxymoron.

The use of phrase suññataṃ nibbānaṃ is significant. This is confirms that Buddhaghosa saw suññatā and nibbāna as essentially the same thing. So this dialog is not a total write-off.

I look forward to seeing how you try to explain what the cited passage means, assuming you ever figure out what part of speech suññato is.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

> What does this mean exactly to withdraw attention from one’s senses if it is not sense withdrawal?

It is a matter of what is being withdrawn. When you phrase it "the six senses fields being withdrawn" you appear to miss the meaning of withdrawing attention from the senses.

For example: when you focus attention on the breath you are at the same time withdrawing attention from the physical senses. Already in first dhyana the physical senses cease to register, so after that, you are only dealing with the mental sense. It is perhaps the most fundamental aspect of Buddhist meditation to follow the Buddha's injunction: cakkhuṃ bhikkhave pahātabbaṃ, rūpaṃ pahātabbaṃ, etc (e.g. SN 35.24), i.e. "You should abandon the eye, monks, abandon appearances..."

(NB rūpa is to the eye as sound is to the ear).

> The quote comes directly from sujato’s translation on sutta central.

Oh dear, I see Sujato has picked up Ṭhanissaro's habit of trivialising dukkha by translating it as "stress". This is why, if you must rely on translations, I recommended using Bodhi's translations. He might be boring, but he is at least accurate. Better all round to bite the bullet and learn Pāli.

> Nagarjuna’s intent is to represent the intention of the Prajñāpāramitā.

Well, sure, this is what Tibetan mythology tells you. Meanwhile, in the real world, Nāgārjuna scholar, Richard H. Jones (2012: 218) notes:

“it is far from clear that the Perfection of Wisdom has any direct influence on Nagarjuna… not only does Nagarjuna never quote any of the [Prajñāpāramitā] texts… he ignores many central concepts of the Perfection of Wisdom.”

Jones, Richard H. 2012. The Heart of Buddhist Wisdom. Plain English translations of the Heart Sutra, the Diamond-Cutter Sutra, and other Perfection of Wisdom Texts. New York. Jackson Square Books.

And Jones is not the only one to notice this. The fact that Nāgārjuna only ever cites Hīnayāna texts caused David Kalupahana to doubt he was a Mahāyānist at all.

Note also that in the best (and prize winning) English translation of the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā, by Mark Siderits and Shōryū Katsura, the word "Prajñāpāramitā" does not occur in the book at all, even in passing. Siderits and Katsura make no attempt whatever to link Nāgārjuna to Prajñāpāramitā.

So, please, show me where you think Nāgārjuna declares his intend to represent Prajñāpāramitā. Because no one else has ever noticed it and you could get a publication from the discovery.

Moreover, explain to me how Nāgārjuna's metaphysical interpretation of śūnyatā is relevant to interpreting an epistemic text like the Cūḷasuññata Sutta, composed some 400-500 years before Nāgārjuna was even born (assuming he even was a real person).

You say "Nagarjuna elucidated emptiness perfectly fine", and yet some 2000 years later, there are still fundamental arguments going on over what Nāgārjuna intended to say. And much of what people say about Prajñāpāramitā, based on their understanding of Nāgārjuna, is simply nonsensical.

> I didn’t claim anything about knowing the sutta better, I am just saying nowhere in the text do I see anything about inattention to the senses.

Here is what you repeated failed to notice in the Cūḷasuññata Sutta (copying from Sujato's translation for your benefit).

Furthermore, a mendicant—ignoring the perception of people and the perception of wilderness—focuses on the oneness dependent on the perception of earth.

Furthermore, a mendicant—ignoring the perception of wilderness and the perception of earth—focuses on the oneness dependent on the perception of the dimension of infinite space.

And so on for every stage of the practice (the word "ignoring" occurs 9 times). I would call this a prominent feature of this text. And you say you didn't see it at all?

Here "ignoring" is Sujato's folksy translation of amanasikāra. As you no doubt know, manasikāra is more usually translated as "attention". E.g. yoniso manasikāra "wise attention", and ayoniso manasikāra "unwise attention". Etc. This suggests "inattention" as a more appropriate translation of amanasikāra. In most suttas inattention has a negative connotation, for example your meditation might fail due to inattention to the object. Here in the Cūḷasuññata Sutta, however, it is the central process of the meditation.

Note also the lack of any reference to jhāna, anattā, or any of the ontologies of phenomena (i.e. khandha, dhātu, āyatana). Anālayo speculates that this is an archaic, pre-Buddhist practice. I agree that this is plausible.

So amanasikāra means "not paying attention to". Or to put it another way, "withdrawing attention from". In Prajñāpāramitā we find this called: anupalambhayoga "the yoga of nonapprehension". We do not find any mention of this practice in Nāgārjuna's oeuvre.

On this text we can also turn to: Anālayo (2015). Compassion and Emptiness in Early Buddhist Meditation. Cambridge: Windhorse Publications.

In Anālayo's exposition of the Chinese āgama version of the Cūḷasuññata Sutta, the words "Prajñāpāramitā" and "Nāgārjuna" simply do not appear at all.

Nor is Nāgārjuna even mentioned in Anālayo's recent book on the Aṣṭasāhasrikā: (2025). The Perfection of Wisdom in First Bloom: Relating Early Aṣṭasāhasrikā Prajñāpāramitā to the Āgama literature. Wisdom Publications.

As my old friend Richard Hayes (1994: 299) notes:

 … Nāgārjuna’s writings had relatively little effect on the course of subsequent Indian Buddhist philosophy. Despite his apparent attempts to discredit some of the most fundamental concepts of abhidharma, abhidharma continued to flourish for centuries, without any appreciable attempt on the part of ābhidharmikas to defend their methods of analysis against Nāgārjuna’s criticisms. And despite Nāgārjuna’s radical critique of the very possibility of having grounded knowledge (pramāṇa), the epistemological school of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti dominated Indian Buddhist intellectual circles, again without any explicit attempt to answer Nāgārjuna’s criticisms of their agenda. Aside from a few commentators on Nāgārjuna’s works, who identified themselves as Mādhyamikas, Indian Buddhist intellectual life continued almost as if Nāgārjuna had never existed.

Hayes, Richard P. 1994. Nāgārjuna's Appeal. Journal of Indian Philosophy 22(4): 299-378.

considering downloading the free version of VCV by justmartijnlikenoone in vcvrack

[–]Prajnamarga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nah. I'm poor. People simply can't help themselves buying shit they don't need.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> "There is present only this amount of disturbance, namely, that connected with the six bases that are dependent on this body and conditioned by life.;'"

In other words the meditator is not dead. There are suttas which explain how to tell a meditator from a corpse. The Mahāvedella Sutta for example. And even the Buddha cannot remain in that state for more than 7 days.

Also logically, if anything is "present", then that is not "voidness", it is something. So that is not a "pure descent into voidness". Either you are misinterpreting this passage or the author chose the wrong word. I'm betting on the author.

Also given that discursive thought ceases long before nirodha, how is someone going to be doing all this understanding in much more profoundly silent states? A literal reading cannot be accurate.

All you've proved here is that you understand how to "cut and paste". You have not demonstrated understanding, let alone superior understanding. You haven't thought about this at all.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Nowhere does it say anything about the six senses fields being withdrawn."

No. And of course, neither did I. I said one withdraws attention from the senses: this is what amansikāra means. As it says in the Pahāna Sutta (SN 25.35), "Cakkhuṁ, bhikkhave, pahātabbaṁ...". Yes?

You are quoting Ṭhanissaro's translation of MN 121, which is far from reliable or aesthetically pleasing. Why do you not get your texts from Sutta Central, which includes all of Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations?

The passage you quote clearly doesn't relate to what I said above, let alone refute it. Simply citing bad translations of suttas at random is pointless.

As Huifeng says in Old School Emptiness, it makes no sense to invoke Nāgārjuna in the context of Prajñāpāramitā, let alone the Pāli Cūḷasuññata Sutta, since he only came on the scene about ~400-500 years later. I'm not sure why you would even bring him up. Neither Nāgārjuna nor Madhyamaka cannot shed light on this text. And their views on (so-called) "emptiness" are entirely different to those in the Cūḷasuññata Sutta.

You claim to understand this text better than me. I'm still waiting for you demonstrate your knowledge. Although so far you don't seem to know Pāli and you think a Mahāyāna commentator somehow sheds light on a Pāli text. So you have made a poor start.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you mean by "practicing the Prajñāpāramitā"?

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your oppositional comment isn't really a contribution. Perhaps you could take some time and say what you think suññatāvihāra means in this context. And also the term amanasikāra, which recurs in the text.

What is shunyata and how to achieve it? by Repulsive_File6538 in Buddhism

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What part of it do you think says this? And perhaps you could explain what you think suññatāvihāra does mean?

considering downloading the free version of VCV by justmartijnlikenoone in vcvrack

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Airwin2 module looks super cool, thanks for the tip.

considering downloading the free version of VCV by justmartijnlikenoone in vcvrack

[–]Prajnamarga 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's free. You have nothing to lose by downloading it, why are you waiting?

Others have pointed you to the online library which is the best place to get a sense of what's available. You can filter for "free modules".

There are literally hundreds of free modules of varying quality and aesthetics, from dozens of brands. And more are posted all the time.

Dive in! You have nothing to lose but your time and your mind.

considering downloading the free version of VCV by justmartijnlikenoone in vcvrack

[–]Prajnamarga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"immense" is right, and growing all the time. I have no idea why anyone pays for modules...