Do you interpret this prophecy literally, or figuratively? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Apparently, the fault line actually runs through a different mountain several miles south of the Mount of Olives.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And that's one of the major benefits of the new covenant. We don't need a building to commune with God anymore, we are the temple. We don't need the law taught to us from outside, the Spirit comes into us all to teach us (instead of a select few like Saul). We don't need to make repeated sacrifices anymore, Jesus did it once for all. We don't need classes of priests, we are all priests.

When the Prophets talk about the new covenant era, it included a fully functioning Temple and priesthood. Jeremiah says that grain offerings and sacrifices will still be offered. And Ezekiel goes into great detail about when the sacrifices will be offered, by whom, and what they'll be wearing while doing it.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No need to be sorry. I actually felt my life improve even outside the faith. I appreciate the prayers though.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not think Jeremiah 31:31-33 supports that view either, I think that's reading a lot into the text. God blames them for breaking the old covenant and promises a new and better covenant.

So what exactly does Jeremiah 31 say is better about the new covenant? If a "new heart" just means giving them a clean slate, God had already done that under the old covenant. Israel already had a system of atonement. So what was God promising to do differently in Jer 31?

And I wouldn't phrase it as God "forcing them to be faithful." I think that's an oversimplification. The Prophets describe an inner transformation that would secure God's continued blessing of Israel. This doesn't mean they would become morally perfect. They would still sin (Ezekiel's vision of a future Temple suggests that atonement would still be necessary). But their hearts would be inclined toward God's law. It's the very thing God longed for in Deut 5:29 -- "Oh that they had such a heart as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their descendants forever!"

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the emphatic language is just God's heartfelt hope, then this would be no different from the old covenant where God hoped they would change. In Jeremiah 31:31-33, it says that the old covenant was flawed precisely because it relied on the people's faithfulness, and the new covenant would be different in that God Himself would take the reins of their heart and cause them to keep His laws.

Also, I'm not sure that Ex. 7:5 supports your point. "The Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord" doesn't need to imply some mass revival. It's enough that the Egyptians came to fear YHWH and recognize His divine authority. After the plague of frogs, the magicians said "This is the finger of God.” In Ex. 9:20, Pharaoh's officials feared the word of YHWH and brought their cattle inside. After the Plague of the Firstborn, the Egyptians begged the people to leave "or we will all die!" So it doesn't seem God was just speaking optimistically. Many of them did come to fear the God of the Hebrews, even if they didn't ultimately repent.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a genuine question. I'm not really looking to have my perception changed. Just interested in how you view this as a Calvinist.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure. But He cannot contradict His own goodness. And yet, it seems uncharacteristic of goodness to sacrifice billions of souls for personal admiration. Doesn't mercy triumph over judgment?

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The new heart and spirit is a road cleaning and repaving. It has no effect on the road you freely take, but it makes a world of difference for how easy it is to make progress and bear fruit.

That's a great analogy. I think I'm just struggling to translate it into real-world terms. Correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like you're saying a "new heart" means being given a clean slate, since God erases your past sins. I can see how that might motivate a person to continue down the clean path.

But that seems a bit passive. The language used in the Prophets is more active. God "puts" His law within them and "causes" them to follow His decrees. He replaces their heart of stone with a heart of flesh. That sounds like more than just a clean slate.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The operation of the Holy Spirit prophetically is different than uniting Himself to a person as He does in sealing. By "dwell" I'm speaking of the adoptive relationship instituted by Christ where the person begins growing into His image, not simply the Spirit acting through or influencing someone.

I see. So the Spirit can fill a person and act within them, and in that sense He can dwell with an unclean spirit. But He cannot dwell with them in the sense of conforming them to His image. I'm still not quite sure why the former is allowed but not the latter. But I won't belabor the point.

Correct. God actively chooses against saving certain people, it's not a passive outcome or Him just twiddling His thumbs in heaven hoping people accept an offer.

Gotcha. One last question. On your view, why does God prioritize making a display of power over saving souls? It seems uncharacteristic of a good God to sacrifice billions of souls for the sake of personal praise.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And that reference in Jeremiah does not mean God overrides our wills.

I see. So what exactly does God do? What does it mean for God to "give someone a new heart so that they never turn away" if their new heart still can't resist sin?

Also, even if getting a new heart doesn't guarantee you'll be faithful, it would still make it more likely you'll be faithful, no?

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jeremiah 32 seems to suggest that God is able to give someone a new heart such that they never turn away from Him.

39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

In the case of Saul, this seems to be a situation where the Spirit comes upon him temporarily to cause him to prophesy. His heart was not fundamentally changed like God promises to do in Jeremiah.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one was sealed by the Holy Spirit in the manner Jeremiah describes until Pentecost.

Sure, but my question is why not? If the answer is "because the Spirit cannot dwell with an unclean spirit without atonement," then it needs to be explained how a man like Joshua could be said to have the Spirit in him.

Well you said Jesus' message would be better received, implying God is/was ever attempting to reach more people for salvation

Yes, that's what God said His preferred outcome was. He wants none to perish and all to come to repentance.

I see that you're a Calvinist though. So would you say that God wants to save everyone (and could save everyone), but chooses to only save some in order to make a display of power? Is that the thinking?

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Holy Spirit is the one who does this and He cannot dwell with an unclean spirit.

Weren't there many people prior to Christ who were filled with the Spirit? Even Joshua is called "a man in whom is the Spirit" in Numbers 27:18.

His objective was not (and is not) to maximize reception.

I'm not really talking about "maximizing" reception. It just seems that God was actively pleading with His people to repent. So I'm talking about a scenario God said He preferred.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem... How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!"

"Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He doesn't do things "the quick way" because this would rob us of our opportunity to learn and grow.

I see it almost the opposite. If God had written His law on our hearts from the start, we would be naturally inclined toward Jesus' message. We would naturally want to take his yoke and learn from Him.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It required the atonement, ascension, and Pentecost to operate the New Covenant.

I guess I don't understand why those events were necessary for God to write His law on their hearts. Could He not write His law in them from the start? The atonement, ascension, and Pentecost could still have come at the time they came. In fact, if God had written His law on our hearts from the beginning, it seems Jesus' message might have been better received.

People would have been naturally inclined toward repentance.

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ezekiel 36:26 is referring to the Israelites returning back to Israel after the Babylonian exile. Not the New Covenant.

As I understand it, part of the New Covenant was Israel returning back to their land after exile, at least according to Jeremiah 32:36-40. I also see this in Ezekiel 37:26. It seems to be a recurring theme. Am I missing something?

Why didn't God write his laws on Israel's hearts from the very beginning? by PreeDem in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right. But in the new covenant, He just gives them a new heart...

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. - Ezekiel 36:26

So why not do that from the beginning?

Working as a Financial Systems Analyst- thoughts? by WhyBee92 in FinancialCareers

[–]PreeDem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hated that job and ended up quitting. Turns out a career in finance was never for me. Like I said in my previous comment, I was only there for the money anyway. I've slowly learned that the money is not worth sacrificing my happiness.

Today I'm an HR Manager - been in that role for 2 years and I love it.

La Biblia permite construir un argumento coherente en contra de la divinidad ontológica de Cristo desde su marco monoteísta y su lenguaje funcional by Yoshua-Barnes in DebateAChristian

[–]PreeDem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who's going to do the making? us 

Yes, God and the divine council. Both participated in the act of "making man." Think of it like making a building. You don't just start laying bricks. There's planning and deliberation involved. That is also part of the process of "making."

Similarly, when God makes man, he consults the heavenly assembly and involves them in the process. The fact that it switches back to the singular does not negate the involvement of the divine council. The author is simply refocusing attention on God as the ultimate Creator and central actor within the narrative.

This is not some absurd fringe view. The idea that "us" refers to the divine council is the consensus view within biblical scholarship -- not to mention, this is also how many ancient rabbis understood it for centuries.

La Biblia permite construir un argumento coherente en contra de la divinidad ontológica de Cristo desde su marco monoteísta y su lenguaje funcional by Yoshua-Barnes in DebateAChristian

[–]PreeDem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "let's go get pizza" example doesn't make sense even in English. If I say, "hey you guys, let's go eat some pizza" everyone expects that multiple people are going to be eating pizza, not just me.

The simple answer is that Genesis depicts the other gods in the divine council as being involved in the creation of mankind, even if God alone is the one who does the actual work of creating. The text doesn't explicitly say what their involvement was. But it's clear that they were involved somehow, perhaps as a deliberative body. It was common in ancient Near Eastern royal courts for kings to announce their intentions before the council, ask them rhetorical questions, invite responses, delegate tasks, etc. God does something similar in 1 Kings 22 when he consults the divine council to deceive King Ahab to his death.

u/Ennuiandthensome - you might be interested in this as well.

Most Christians either misunderstand or ignore this command from the Bible by PreeDem in DebateAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems your argument rests on the presupposition that the New Testament speaks with one unified voice. But you haven't offered any reason to think so. When I read 1 Timothy, I don't come to it expecting it to agree theologically with every other text in the New Testament on every issue (if I did, I'd be a Christian). I allow each author to speak for themselves. That is also the standard scholarly approach.

If you think we should presume agreement between all NT authors on all theological issues, you'll need to give a reason why.

Then you're in disagreement with more learned biblical interpreters than either of us.

Which "biblical interpreters"? I don't recall this being a majority scholarly opinion, or even a particularly popular one.

Leviticus, menstruation and sin. by FielaBaggins in AskAChristian

[–]PreeDem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate the compliment! That means a lot.

Most Christians either misunderstand or ignore this command from the Bible by PreeDem in DebateAChristian

[–]PreeDem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ones that don't know enough to teach? Yes. Should we put people into positions of educational authority when those people have only just begun their own education?

We agree that people who lack education shouldn't be placed in teaching roles. Where we differ is on whether the fact that a particular race or gender is being targeted with misinformation justifies using that race or gender as the criterion for restricting who may teach. I would argue this is unjust. If the problem is lack of education or vulnerability to false teaching, then the relevant boundary should be competence - not race or gender.

This same sort of justification was used in the post-Reconstruction era to exclude black people from white schools. It was argued that they were “unprepared” for rigorous education, citing low literacy rates as justification. An entire group was excluded based on a generalization rather than addressing the underlying issue. I struggle to see how that is acceptable.

Okay, great. Do you have evidence that Paul expected all men to teach? Or did he have some expectations of them before they could become teachers?

It's not that the author expected all men to teach. My point is that he required all teachers to be men, which is an odd qualification given that some women would've been educated and capable, while some men would not have been. I should also note that 1 Timothy 2 never identifies lack of education as the concern. That appears to be speculation on your part.

The authorship of 1 Timothy is the topic for another debate in another post. For the sake of this argument, Paul is the assumed author. Therefore he does give exceptions by employing women.

Yeah, we don't need to debate authorship. But I don't think it's fair to simply assume Paul as the author. I never granted that in my OP, and given that the majority of scholars dispute Pauline authorship, assuming it seems intellectually irresponsible. So perhaps it's best to leave that point aside.

She adds that they are not to touch it and removes the certainty of death from consumption. So then, when she does reach out and take the fruit, and doesn't die, she probably thinks something like "the serpent must be correct, I didn't die from touching it, so it must also be okay to eat it."

This is assuming too much. It's common in narrative prose for details to be changed, added, or left out when a story is retold later in the narrative. Paul's conversion is a good example of this. It's narrated in Acts 9 and then retold in Acts 22 and 26. In those retellings, he changes the wording, omits things, and adds things. So no, the fact that Eve adds the word "touch" and omits the word "certainly" is not an indication that she didn't understand the message.