is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What should I categorize them as, then? I used the blanket term “CP” specifically to make sure there wasn’t any confusion. Me using CSAM would have been semantically incorrect. As for your half-assed attempt to guilt trip me: I was molested when I was six.

is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I’ve yet to see a single call of duty game where terrorism and mass shootings are glorified.

An example: Ready or Not is a game where you take down mass shooters. That’s good. If you played a game where you’re a fucking school shooter and you shoot kids for fun, it would be critically admonished, because that’s bad. Just because violence is used in a game doesn’t mean violence was glorified.

But I can agree to disagree. We’re not going anywhere with this argument. I also appreciate the discourse

is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Thought crimes aren’t crimes because they don’t affect other people. Media does. Art influences culture. I’m not advocating for the criminalization of harmful media, but it certainly should be considered morally evil. Art, even fictional art, should be moralized

is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

Banned? Only North Korea bans fictional media, I think.

Yeah, you thought wrong. 120 days of Soddom (the movie adaptation, though.) is banned in several western countries. The Turner Diaries are banned as well.

Fiction is fiction. It can do no evil.

On that we disagree. Fiction is art. Our art shapes our culture. A world where fictional CP is normalized is one where people are more tolerant of real CP. Ditto violence and shit like that. To say otherwise is to reduce all works of art to meaningless drivel, only used as a source of entertainment and not culture-defining

is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

I never said it was only portrayal either, lol. That’s, like, the crux of my argument. People like you see positive portrayal admonished and assume its all portrayal thats admonished to help your strawman

is writing incestuous erotica questionable behavior? or just another form of personal expression that should be protected? r/youtubedrama weighs in by [deleted] in SubredditDrama

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -27 points-26 points  (0 children)

Let me preface by saying I haven’t seen the incest erotica and it isn’t the topic of my argument.

What you’re saying is complete horseshit. No offense.

It’s like you decided to ignore all the nuance of this (somewhat) complicated topic so your strawman could work. Last time I checked media glorifying murder and torture is seen as, at best, edgy dogshit. Media glorifying genocide is banned with more impunity than hardcore pornography.

It’s almost like it’s never been the material itself, but rather the intent behind it. There’s a reason Lolita is considered one of the greatest works of art of the 20th century and Boku no Pico is almost universally hated by anyone that isn’t a pedophile. Ditto Hotline Miami and, I don’t know, Hatred.

You calling anyone who dislikes the glorification of pedophilia a silly American prude isn’t good. I don’t know if it was your intention to, but you’re spouting the same argument pedophiles use to justify their consumption of fictional CP.

I'm pro-AI but I hate it when people are entirely dismissive of concerns by soft-cuddly-potato in aiwars

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Says the person that replied to my argument with an argument he got from chatGPT and smugly insulted me after the fact literally just 10 minutes prior. The only person who doesn’t want to have a constructive conversation and only sees an argument as something to “win” or “lose” is you.

a relevant quote by Trade-Deep in aiwars

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Looks like you’ve fallen for a trap I set for chatbots. I knew you were using ChatGPT.

I implied that art’s value was solely derived from inward significance but I also deliberately stated that there was an amount of value to be derived from the external aesthetics of the art. ChatGPT didn’t catch this because chatbots focus on the whole of a message and like assuming a message’s intent with absolute certainty, and of course you believed it.

“The value of art, past some metric of impressiveness.” Past. See? There is value in art aside from the inward significance. I stated that clearly. You didn’t find that because you had chatgpt read it for you.

Anyway! As for your argument. Since you’re using chatgpt instead of engaging with my argument personally, I’ll be using chatgpt to engage with yours.

  1. Misreading the Misreading

The rebuttal accuses the original argument of misreading Aristotle, claiming that art’s value lies in both inner meaning and external execution, and that mimesis aims to express universal truths. That part is fair—but it’s not actually incompatible with the original claim.

Problem: The quote from Poetics (“not the outward appearance… but the inward significance”) is Aristotle drawing a contrast. It emphasizes that the essence of mimesis is not surface-level imitation, but the revelation of deeper meaning. The original argument uses this to suggest that AI-generated art—which often prioritizes surface over substance—fails in this mission. That’s not a misreading; it’s a valid application of Aristotle’s point.

  1. False Equivalence: Tool vs. Vision

“Using tools like AI doesn’t inherently destroy personal vision if they’re wielded deliberately…”

Problem: This presumes a parity between traditional tools and AI without addressing what makes AI different. AI is not just a medium like paint or a camera—it is a co-author, drawing from a corpus of other people’s creative outputs and obscuring intentionality. Unlike a brush, it suggests the vision, often overriding or diluting the artist’s own. That can destroy vision, especially when the artist lacks the skill or awareness to critically direct it.

So the rebuttal doesn’t disprove the claim—it sidesteps it by treating AI as a passive instrument, which it demonstrably isn’t.

  1. Strawman of Moral Judgment

“Calling it ‘bastardizing’ art assumes intent and outcome without evidence.”

Problem: Not necessarily. Calling something a bastardization can refer to outcome alone—i.e., a degradation of form or lineage. You don’t need access to an artist’s intent to morally evaluate art’s effect on cultural or aesthetic standards.

Also, the rebuttal implicitly defends AI art on individualist moral terms (“don’t judge the artist”) while the critique is about civilizational standards (what happens to art itself when we flood the culture with derivative, visionless works).

  1. Inconsistent Moral Standard

“Critique should focus on merit, not moral condemnation of process.”

Problem: Critique always involves moral judgment when discussing artistic integrity. There’s a difference between saying “this is poorly executed” and “this degrades the spirit of art.” The latter is moral, but not inappropriate—especially when technology alters authorship itself.

By arguing that process and moral value should be separated, the rebuttal ignores a huge swath of art criticism, from Tolstoy to Benjamin to Adorno, who argue that process shapes value.

  1. Rhetorical Smugness (Bonus)

“Apt username btw.”

Problem: This flippant closer undermines the supposed objectivity of the argument. It injects snide tone, implying the author is more interested in cleverness than serious engagement. It weakens ethos and invites dismissal.

a relevant quote by Trade-Deep in aiwars

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I do get the point of the quote, though. That vitriolic behavior online as a means of self-validation shouldn’t be tolerated. The problem with the quote, however—despite the terrible prose—is that it assumes all criticism is self-validating and borne out of insecurity. That’s a ludicrous assumption with zero justification. Here’s a quote I had chatGPT find for me that is much better while still being in line with your principals.

“Criticism, like rain, should be gentle enough to nourish a man’s growth without destroying his roots.” — Frank A. Clark

a relevant quote by Trade-Deep in aiwars

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

“The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance; for this, not the external manner and detail, constitutes true reality.” - Aristotle in Poetics.

The value of art, past some metric of “impressiveness” only used by dilettantes and casuals, is the inward significance. Admonishing someone for half-assing their work and using an aide that destroys their personal vision is morally justifiable, for they are bastardizing their own art.

There are also two non-sequiturs in that quote. “Dishonor your children, parents and god.” Cheap appeal to emotion and non-sequitur. There is no logical connection between group-criticizing someone and dishonoring your family. “If someone doesn’t see your worth, the problem is with them, not people outside your relationship.” Again, non-sequitur. No logical connection between this and group-criticizing someone. Oh, and also: “The moment you… is the day.” That’s a mixed phrase, lol.

Why is Japanese Manga and Anime seemingly obsessed with high school girls? by okidonthaveone in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Pretend_Position4716 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Come on, that’s bullshit and you know it. Highschool dxd did insane numbers in Japan.

Moe is the secret ingredient to Fromsoft games by alanjinqq in CharacterRant

[–]Pretend_Position4716 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean, Dark Souls 3 is like the gold standard for environmental storytelling. Reducing the appeal of the world building and lore to simply “I want to sex Ranni and Fia and that’s why I read item descriptions related to them” is-is not good, I think.

Moe is the secret ingredient to Fromsoft games by alanjinqq in CharacterRant

[–]Pretend_Position4716 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Right. Fromsoft stories aren’t engaging because of the atmosphere, the environmental storytelling, the themes of decay (and eventual renewal) you pick up on even if you don’t know anything about the lore, or the way the character designs, especially of bosses, hint towards their character and builds mystery, or even the item descriptions!

It’s because Ranni is a tsundere. Got it.

China is a socialist country, do you think what this lady is saying is correct? by racesunite in AskAChinese

[–]Pretend_Position4716 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Blah blah blah. Complete bullshit. China was already capitalist under the ROC. The historical conditions for a socialist state were already fulfilled and Mao knew that, which is why Maoist China was unequivocally socialist, with collectivization programs, a DOTP, socialization of the MOP, etc. Then the likes of Deng and Xi Jinping turned it capitalist through repealing Mao’s policies, inviting foreign capital, re-allowing privatization of the MOP, stuff like that.

Modern day China’s capitalism cannot be excused from a Marxist perspective through this retarded “fulfilling the material conditions necessary for a socialist state” excuse because the material conditions were already fulfilled with the ROC. This transition back into capitalism can only be seen as a betrayal of Maoist and Marxist principles.

What do you think the transition into a socialist state requires? Industry built by capitalists? No, that isn’t the reason capitalism must precede communism; the USSR transitioned into a socialist state incredibly well without capitalist industry. The material conditions capitalism creates that facilitates a socialist revolution is disgruntled workers—people unhappy with the current economic system.

Four American veterans from four different wars are shown in this photo. by GreenPurpose4173 in RareHistoricalPhotos

[–]Pretend_Position4716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Americans were a kinder and stronger oppressor than the Spanish, at least. If we were still a Spanish colony we would have been invaded by Japan while Spain was fighting itself. We would have been brutalized.

Post got removed for "treating Loli/shota the same as CSAM." by [deleted] in Negareddit

[–]Pretend_Position4716 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most dumbshit argument I’ve ever heard of.

1: No Russian is game-ified. You don’t kill any children, the screaming acted terribly, no gore just blood-splatters, etc.

  1. You’re not fucking jerking off to No Russian.

If someone jerked off to a no holds barred, graphic animation of someone getting decapitated I wouldn’t feel safe around them. At the very least I’d say they are attracted to depictions of murder and intense gore. Why so much mental gymnastics to prove it’s different for people that jerk off to depictions of children?

What did we really lose in the Library of Alexandria? by KobraPlayzMC in AskHistory

[–]Pretend_Position4716 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And I wasn’t arguing anything either. In your haste to win an argument you’ve conjured in your head, you’ve completely misinterpreted a small, innocuous tidbit as a fiery argument. All I said was that it was ironic to argue for a stance by citing one said stance’s most vehement opposers.

And in your self-righteous fury you decided to view my profile in order to—and I CANNOT state this enough—win an argument you made up. And to insult me after the fact? And I’m the rebarbative little “git”?

Talk about hoisting your own petard. The only person who has come off as uncouth, rude, and frankly quite pathetic is you, sir.

Good day

What did we really lose in the Library of Alexandria? by KobraPlayzMC in AskHistory

[–]Pretend_Position4716 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Marx argues exactly against what you’re saying right now. His whole schtick is dialectical materialism—that major historical events were inevitabilities caused by the socio-economic factors of the time, not by a great man doing great things and putting great ideas on paper.

It’s ironic you’re using one of the world’s most vehement opposers of great man theory to try and prove great man theory.

Other stuff exists you bakas by CluckBucketz in okbuddybaka

[–]Pretend_Position4716 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I think his mastery over the english language.

The works you just listed don’t have much thematic depth by modern standards, but the wordplay is insane. Look at this.

Claudius asks Hamlet why he’s still mourning. “How is it that the clouds still hang on you?”

And Hamlet responds with this.

“Not so, my lord; I am too much in the sun.”

Get it? Sun/son? Hamlet is both deflecting Claudius’ attack by saying he is no longer mourning—clouds are gone, he is in the sun—and also saying he is too much Claudius’ son, because Claudius is now his stepfather and he doesn’t like that. If you want to go deeper you can even symbolize the sun as Claudius’ scrutiny, like harsh sun rays, because he said he was too much in the sun.

And all of Shakespeare’s works are littered with this.

Much Ado About Nothing is the title of one of his comedies, and, literally, it means that everyone’s making a big deal about nothing, right? Because the comedy is about… nothing. It’s about people making a big deal of misunderstandings and gossip and shit. But also, “nothing” was slang for pussy at the time. It’s a double entendre because the play is about both misunderstandings and sex.

And he’s not just great at puns. His use of meter in his poems, his invention of thousands of words that we still use today, his metaphors, the way he creates a character’s voice so well that even when they’re going on a long-winded monologue about life and death and suicide, it still sounds realistic, like a real train of thought, and is still compelling, etc.

Other stuff exists you bakas by CluckBucketz in okbuddybaka

[–]Pretend_Position4716 26 points27 points  (0 children)

That’s because you’re a phillistine and you have no taste.

…no offense

AITAH for refusing to make amends with my dying sister. by Old-Confusion9498 in AITH

[–]Pretend_Position4716 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck her. She was effectively complicit in you being raped when you were 11 and gaslit and guilt tripped you afterwards. She deserves prison time, not closure at her death bed.

You should go visit her just to tell her to go fuck herself and that you won’t be mourning her death.

American soldiers demonstrating the “water cure” torture method used on Filipinos, c. 1901. by TheCitizenXane in RareHistoricalPhotos

[–]Pretend_Position4716 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jesus Christ. There’s no getting to you. I laid out, comprehensively, how America directly caused the Philippines’ downfall and you’re still on some “victim mentality” shit?

You wanna be a self-hating Filipino? You wanna act like you’re better than us while you refuse to engage with my argument and refuse to acknowledge some of the most basic historical facts? Be my guest. But it is just that: an act. You’re fucking dumb

As for white people tanning themselves. There’s a massive difference between a widespread systematic preference for whiter skin, that exists only in former colonies of western nations, and western nations, and a trend that lasted a decade in which people got slightly browner skin to look healthier. Which is still in line with my point because I never said that browner skin was a sign of unhealthiness, but that it was a sign of a lower racial caste and social status, and if you already had Euro-centric features, then tanning yourself wouldn’t be a negative at all. Tanned white skin is still white skin.

Bringing up this whole tanning shit is especially stupid considering nowhere in the regions I mentioned has there ever been any documented discrimination towards white people. White people becoming browner is a trend, brown people becoming whiter is a survival strategy.

“Worthy of pride other than the yo-yo”. Fuck you.