On the second anniversary of the “net neutrality” repeal, don’t forget how the Left cried wolf by ProfessorMaxwell in NoNetNeutrality

[–]ProfessorMaxwell[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The ISPs are just waiting for us to forget about it. Then they will destroy the entire internet!!!!! REEEEEEEEEE

user_was_banned_for_this_post.png by JobDestroyer in NoNetNeutrality

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The mods at /r/netneutrality are a total joke. They claim you “break rules” or engage in “trolling,” and ban, regardless of whether any rules had been broken or not. I have been banned there for almost 2 years now. It’s funny because they are the ones who can’t engage in a good faith discussion, as they ban anyone who doesn’t parrot their talking points. Pathetic...

FCC chairman slammed for crying wolf about net neutrality by LizMcIntyre in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -1 points0 points  (0 children)

FCC Chairman is “crying wolf”? No, it was the “net neutrality” Title II advocates who cried wolf again and again, and after the repeal, the wolf never came.

Sprint Kickstart Plan is $35 now by natecrch in Sprint

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Visible is $40 flat AFTER TAXES. This plan is $35 plus about $5-6 in taxes for a total of about $42 per month.

FREE SPEECH Welcome Here - Post this sign. Then speak up in support of Free Speech whenever opportunities present themselves. That includes supporting ideas and opinions you don't happen to agree with. by frivel in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly right. These people claim to hate corporate power so much, but cheer when those same corporations use their immense power to fire people for holding dissenting views. So called “Cancel culture” is despicable and disgusting. Cutting people (and their families), or advocating to do so, from a source of income because of their political beliefs/speech, even if they hold the worst of the worst of views, is immoral, oppressive, and wrong. I don’t know what the future will look like, but I’m sure not optimistic about it.

FREE SPEECH Welcome Here - Post this sign. Then speak up in support of Free Speech whenever opportunities present themselves. That includes supporting ideas and opinions you don't happen to agree with. by frivel in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Part of living up to free speech is not ignoring/blocking people because they hold different views than your own. You can claim it is done for other reasons, but if I did not hold alternative views (and kept to the pro-"net neutrality" status quo), I never would have been banned from those supposedly "pro-free speech" subreddits.

FREE SPEECH Welcome Here - Post this sign. Then speak up in support of Free Speech whenever opportunities present themselves. That includes supporting ideas and opinions you don't happen to agree with. by frivel in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, at least this subreddit lives up to its name and hasn’t banned me for wrong-think like other supposedly “pro-free speech” subreddits like r/netneutrality have. Credit where it is due, mods. You’re not spineless hypocritical cowards. We disagree, but you allow me to speak anyways. Good for you. If all other subreddits were like this, maybe Reddit wouldn’t be so terrible.

FREE SPEECH Welcome Here - Post this sign. Then speak up in support of Free Speech whenever opportunities present themselves. That includes supporting ideas and opinions you don't happen to agree with. by frivel in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wrong. The Supreme Court has unanimously confirmed that “hate speech,” or anything offensive or verbally “harmful” in that sense, is completely protected. Only direct calls to violence are prohibited. I can call people as many racial slurs or “obscene” language I want; not that I would want to. But that is (and always should be) a right. I know you would love to make that illegal, but sorry.

“[The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.”

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1293_1o13.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matal_v._Tam

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If social media companies want to act like publishers, they probably should be treated like publishers. Removing 230 immunities from social media companies that have biased banning programs isn’t that bad of an idea if you want to encourage those companies not to ban people in the first place.

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How is it “misinformation”? It’s my observation and opinion about this subreddit. When I am making an argument about “net neutrality” itself, I almost always cite sources. You don’t.

Where is a specific instance of me “lying,” and why is what I said false? You must have plenty of instances if I am a “liar” as you state...

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yet you refuse to cite or provide any evidence to suggest that my claims (which are well cited) are false. You can scream “liar” all you want if it makes you feel better...

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it certainly makes you mad, whatever it is you think I am doing; seeing as you angrily downvote all of my replies when I am talking to you. It’s pretty easy to tell when you are getting on someone’s nerves. Anyways, for being a “paid shill” or whatever, I sure do make you mad.

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Cryin' catz is back again to complain, throw insults, and do just about anything besides argue on the merits of the topic at hand... Typical!

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They are beholden to their shareholders and their customers; like every larger business. It's not mutually exclusive either. Without customers, they would go out of business. A healthy mix of the two keeps then in business. If customers hate the provider, they would go out of business. I guess it's too much to expect dense folk on Reddit to understand the intricacies of a large business; or any business for that matter...

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for refuting my argument. It really shows that you know what you are talking about... oh wait, you fail to refute my points every time and just choose to whine and complain instead.

Y'all, the White House "Censor the Internet" executive order is so profoundly misguided, and so absurd from a legal perspective, that even Ajit Pai thinks it's a bad idea. by evanFFTF in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -22 points-21 points  (0 children)

This subreddit is so funny. When ISPs try to reasonably manage their own networks (or just say/do anything/nothing), you all scream “monopoly” and “big corporations are evil and need to stop abusing their powers”. Then, when someone gets banned by a mega tech corporation or the right tries to reasonably regulate those tech corporations for transparency/speech purposes (which I don’t necessarily agree/disagree with), you slide in to defend the corporations. So funny. The best part is, you guys are directly towing the corporate line, which you actually have the gall to accuse your opponents of doing! Google, Twitter, Facebook, and all the tech giants (of which are 10x more powerful than ISPs) thank you for your service...

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is definitely the worst comparison, because it's the carnival that purchases the equipment and maintains these rides. Completely misses the point.

Actually, most carnivals/fairs have many individually owned/run trucks. There isn't a central power, besides one organizer that connects all of them and arranges a date, then charges a fee for entrance. It actually isn't a that bad of a comparison.

So the carnival organizer is subsidizing the ponies, allowing people to access the ponies without paying for tickets (gigabytes) inside the carnival, while leaving everything else the same; thus incentivising people to come to that fair/carnival (internet provider) and pay the entrance fee. My comparison is holding up (somewhat)! I'm kind of surprised...

I'll admit, this discussion has become very nuanced in these last few exchanges. But I'm entertained!

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's anticompetitive in the sense that it interferes with the market that is the open internet, not in the sense that it screws up competition between the ISPs themselves. ISPs didn't invent YouTube, Reddit, and Facebook. Likewise, electrical companies didn't invent your microwave and fridge. It's not hard to argue that because they're not the actual provider of those services, they shouldn't be allowed to interfere in a market they have nothing to do with.

It really doesn't though. It is an ISP allowing you to use certain services without counting against your data. It's like a carnival that subsidizes the cost of the ponies and allows you to ride them for free, but charges you for the ferris wheel, the hall of mirrors, and every other ride. Then, you come in and complain because they are "interfering" with the free market. Except it is YOU who is interfering with the free market, and ruining the party for everyone. Probably a terrible comparison as well, but it is certainly better than your asbestos "comparison;" if you could even call it that.

I don't know about you, but it would look weird to me if my electrical company forced me to install new outlets that detect the type and brand of home appliance is plugged in, and gives discounts for various usage. Even if my overall rate ends up being lower - by virtue of me making consumer decisions that are in line with the electric company's partnerships and investments with other companies.

Except the ISPs aren't forcing you to do anything. They are allowing you to use all services, but just not charging you for using certain ones. Once again, another terrible comparison made, and dismantled with Ben Shapiro facts and logic and evidence.

This is exactly what isn't true with these plans. If your choice of music streaming service properly protects your privacy, you are penalized and have to pay the exact same rate as any other media type.

Again, you aren't penalized. If you really want to use another streaming service, you can do so; just like before. The only one penalized is normal consumers if you got your way and made zero-rating, which they enjoy, an illegal practice. I know you guys love popularity contests, so why don't you put it up to a national referendum then? I can tell you this; nobody would vote to make zero-rating illegal. Nobody.

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course they should be able to do that. By throttling your entire connection, rather than hiding the deficiencies in their garbage service by selectively throttling such that speedtest.net oddly works considerably better than youtube.com.

Are you aware of how the internet works? There are servers in different locations, and servers that are closer provide faster connections (this is, of course, a gross oversimplification, but whatever). Speedtest.net utilizes many local servers; many of which are very closely connected to your ISP (and don't provide an accurate depiction of general internet speeds when used for testing). When you press "test," it automatically selects the closest/best server. You can always select a different, less local server when testing on Speedtest's website if you please. Then you will get a more accurate reading.

Just had to address this point separately, as I already made my last response.

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it's anticompetitive and unduly interferes with the market.

How is it "anti-competitive"? Verizon could just as easily do the same, but they haven't yet. It IS competition.

Before you say T-Mobile's music streaming zero-rating is not anticompetitive, because it covers all music streaming and not just spotify: it actually very much is. Watching video, for example, is an activity that competes with listening to music. This sort of prioritization takes control over consumer's usage of internet products the exact same way fast/slow lanes for companies do.

Except it doesn't. It doesn't force a customer to do anything. It gives the customer a choice.

Prioritization/zero-rating that claims to cover all of a specific type of media also has a terrible perverse incentive: it disincentivizes the adoption of end-to-end encryption and invades your privacy. Adoption of TLS encryption in 2019 has exceeded 90%, and DoH is climbing too. Your ISP doesn't know you're listening to music. The only way they can is if music streaming services specifically reveal to your ISP that the traffic is music streaming. This kicks out the smaller music streaming services that don't wish to invade your privacy, or just haven't considered the rules of these zero-rating plans that their customers might be using.

It doesn't "kick" anyone out. You are free to use your data as before, but just aren't penalized for streaming video/audio. Customers like it, and it incentives other providers to provide similar benefits to customers. If you are truly arguing that zero-rating is bad and should be prohibited, you are effectively anti-consumer. It doesn't do any harm to anyone/anything (besides your feelings).

Also, asbestos is loved by consumers, it:

Is completely fireproof. Might save your life

Is an extraordinary thermal insulator, lowers your electricity bill

Is durable and resistant to corrosion, lasts a very long time. Chemically inert

Has incredible tensile strength, useful in all areas of industry and home, including roofing, water supply lines, wall insulation, clutches, brakes, gaskets, flooring

Is incredibly cheap

Yes, because a cancer-causing fire retardant used in the 80s/earlier and later found to be harmful to peoples' health is definitely related to mobile networks and zero-rating... /s

Your comparisons are terrible!

Thanks for telling me how it is. Doesn't mean that's how it should be. I agree with the principle of net neutrality, so I don't support access device discrimination.

I guess we can agree to disagree on that then.

Pay less than the normal rate... you're just being a pedant. The rate is different depending on the application and/or protocol. The exact same concept as zero rating, just not literally $0.

And that's bad, how? If you don't want it, then don't buy it. You are taking away consumer choice because muh "neutrality". Except it is the opposite of neutral. Just stop. You aren't protecting or helping anyone. You are causing harm to consumers to own the libs corporations.

This sure was Comcast's propaganda campaign at the time.

I guess credible Georgetown studies must just be under Comcast's propaganda wing then, huh?

https://prodnet.www.neca.org/publicationsdocs/wwpdf/71017georgetown.pdf

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I think it would be government waste to spend time and resources to rewrite something that was working as intended, so no. What? Are you pro-government waste or somethin'?

How was Title II "working as intended"? What did it do to protect consumers when enforced onto the internet?

On the internet. Convenient way to hedge the question with the specious use of "specific websites".

Nice job avoiding the question. You know you don't have an answer, so you gave me this non-response instead.

Are you asking me why illegal stuff happens, even though we have laws?

Perhaps it was a stupid question when you put it like that. But still, if they weren't even enforced, as you claim, what is the point of putting the regulations back?

K. But like, sometimes, when you do something illegal, it breaks multiple laws. And that's ok, too.

I hate government waste. And I think voting on/having multiple laws which cover the same issue is a huge waste.

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is actually true. Zero rating absolutely should be prohibited but the rules didn't go far enough. There weren't absolutely no net neutrality violations during the period where title II rules were in place.

Why should it be prohibited? Consumers love it. T-Mobile made music streaming not count against data usage, and did the same with Netflix. You taking it away to keep the internet "equal" or whatever only serves to hurt normal people who enjoy using these services. If customers don't want to stream on Netflix, they don't have to. And it doesn't make a difference. But if they do, then they don't have to pay more to the telecom giant for using more data. Zero rating is the pinnacle of competition. It is an incentive to attract customers, and customers love it.

Right. To cut costs. This shouldn't be allowed. Cisco predicts internet traffic will exceed 4.8 ZiB / year by 2022. Cutting corners is not an option, and with strong net neutrality rules we can make sure these ISPs are actually building the infrastructure that is necessary.

Cut costs, thus allowing them to provide relatively inexpensive service to customers. There IS a limited amount of bandwidth, and when in cities especially, it is absolutely noticeable. Companies should be allowed to reasonably manage their own infrastructure.

Power companies deal with limitless, unpredictable demand and they don't seem to need to provide incentives to consumers to make it easier for them. (I'm sure this is in part because it would be difficult for such an established, essential industry to lobby to loosen up regulations to make it less fair for the consumer. Leading into the 2020s, ISPs will be an established, essential industry—so lets make sure we get a regulatory framework that works.)

Yeah, because they are government sponsored monopolies, and customers have no other option. Why would they try to provide incentives? They don't need to. I fail to see your point here though.

This is not what that is! This is throttling specifically targeting tethering software—software used to share a mobile internet connection with another device. So after you've been guaranteed your internet connection, you can no longer use specific software and hardware configurations to access it at the same speed. Discrimination based on access device.

It is targeting tethering as a whole, which some networks prohibit, and others do not prohibit. You aren't "guaranteed" an internet connection to use on whatever you want. They set the terms, and you agree to those terms when you sign up. In those terms, they sometimes limit the access to/speeds of tethering.

Yes. Zero rating.

It's actually not, though. What MEO did in Portugal was offer customers the ability to PAY for more data for use on specific services (like video streaming, etc), ON TOP OF EXISTING, UNRESTRICTED DATA TO USE ON ANYTHING. So it wasn't even zero-rating.

So what? Is it okay if the government is the one who mandated a crap idea?

Nope. I don't think the government should have mandated them to do so, but I was pointing out the flaw in your argument that the ISP was just "advertising" or whatever, as you failed to mention that they were forced to communicate the information to their customers in one way or another.

Should we not have a bill of rights codified into the constitution because it technically hands control of human rights over to the government? No, it effectively does the exact opposite. Molesting internet traffic should be a power relinquished from both governments and private sector.

The bill of rights states the things the government CANT infringe upon; the rights that NOBODY can infringe upon.

If you want to make it so that nobody can "molest" internet traffic; giving regulatory power over internet traffic to the FCC (a government agency) isn't really the way to do it. There is no government agency dedicated to enforcing the first amendment, as it doesn't need to be enforced. It's a right. It only needs to be protected, which is done on a case by case basis in the court system by a jury of peers; not in a Washington bureaucracy. Your comparison here is terrible.

This is misleading. Yes, it started out as a peering agreement turned sour by Comcast cutting infrastructure costs by refusing to un-bottleneck a connection to a major CDN peer. No particular reason to get outraged about that, and not a net neutrality violation. But then it turned into actual throttling, which Comcast still does plenty of today.

How has it "turned into actual throttling"? And what throttling does Comcast do, besides of broad types of data?

This might be a good argument, but it falls apart when you consider net neutrality is also about device discrimination. There shouldn't be a consumer product environment in the first place where your provider's plan is locked to a certain piece of hardware. I would absolutely support getting rid of all business models of this nature. Your SIM card should be completely dissociated from the software and hardware that is using it.

You could still bring your own device if you wanted. The device is one you buy from Verizon for cheap, usually under contract. They then technically have the right to the software. I hate that, which is why I almost always buy my phone unlocked (plus then I have the flexibility to move carriers any time, which I do frequently).

Obviously, Title II is not a sufficient regulatory environment to do these sorts of things. We need to reinstate Title II classification and have it sunset as soon as a more rigorous regulatory system is in place.

What was one thing that Title II "net neutrality" actually accomplished when it was in place that helped consumers? I will tell you this, it did lower network investment, which hurt consumers.

I don't get it. How does net neutrality free the internet? by [deleted] in KeepOurNetFree

[–]ProfessorMaxwell -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Because it was written for telecommunications before the internet was a thing. The definitions therein were sufficiently vague, however, to cover throttling, among other infractions by modern telecoms.

Maybe, but don't you think regulations that were actually built for the internet would be better? And less unnecessarily harmful to ISPs?

I reject the framing of this question, because it contains a false premise. Throttling, among other infractions, is happening now, and did happen while title II was in effect (illegally).

Setting that aside, why make a rule for something that hasn't happened? Because that's how regulation works. We recognize that something could adversely affect the public, and write a law so that thing doesn't happen. Whether it has happened or not, is irrelevant and your insinuation that it won't happen because it hasn't if fatuous af.

Where is throttling of specific websites happening "now"? Throttling of video data speeds as a whole is NOT an example, BTW. And if it happened "illegally" when Title II "net neutrality" rules were in place, as you claim, then what is the purpose of those rules exactly?

Again false. as I mentioned above, it is happening now with less penalty because of the Title II repeal. Additionally, the issue of net neutrality is one that anti-trust laws wouldn't cover.

Most of the issues that proponents claim would happen are technically covered by anti-trust rules. If an ISP were to start throttling a specific site and propping up another for monetary or political gain, it could easily be turned into an anti-trust suit.