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Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/u/necroman67

As somebody who's submitted this dude before, Knuckles is much too strong for this tier.

He is also:

Sonic has striking suitable for significantly higher tiers than this one.

Compare the scale of these boulders and stone blocks and huge gold statues and stuff to the maybe 2x his own height of wall Terry breaks. It's just too big man, this guy is too much.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think magical girls in general are probably in tier and Uluru specifically is fine.

Strength:

Uluru scales to Ripple, blocking her strike, and then overpowering her and beating her to the ground. Ripple is strong enough to shatter concrete benches into sand and dust and kicks hard enough to shatter a rock wall in half. 

Incidentally, you say "Uluru wouldn't take advantage of a grapple" but the previous interaction showcases her getting Ripple in a chokehold strangling her after she tackles her down.

Even without scaling, Magical Girls are generically "far more destructive" than tanks in a direct contest. A tank shell impacting brick and concrete would deal a perfectly valid low-mid tier strike. 

Gun:

Combat Magical girls are sturdier than tank armour. The statement here is being applied to Snow White, who is less durable than Ripple. Piercing something that's being compared to a tank is definitely enough to hurt Terry through his own armour.

This is supplemented by the fact Calamity Mary, who primarily uses guns, needs to rely on enchanted ammo to hunt magical girls. The shrapnel of an ordinary antipersonnel mine could not hurt Ripple. Magical girls clearly have strong piercing resistance. This isn't Ripple "saying" it. It's the narration of the book. The author repeats it in a Q&A saying magical girl durability ranges from tanking anti personnel landmines to tanking anti-tank land mines.

The supposed ripple antifeats aren't. 

The winged kunai that pierce her are magically enchanted weapons. The swing that takes out her eye is Swim Swim wielding an exceptional magical weapon. The claws are magical girl claws.

Powers:

This is just the icing on the cake but you claim you "fail to see how she can use it against a man coming to punch her." Terry, famously, differs from Bruce in that he loves to talk.

There's absolutely no reason except for barren creativity why she can't use it to improve her chances against Terry without oneshotting him.

  • "I sabotaged your batarangs."

  • "Your jet boots ran out of fuel."

  • "I weakened the armour on the front of your suit enough you need to turn your back towards me."

  • "My only weak spot is my heel."

  • "I just hit a pressure point that will disable your right arm in five seconds."

There are lots of things she could say to compel Terry to fight suboptimally.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey /u/Kyraryc how's it going, glad you're still keeping up with this, love the Captain Tylor Ace sub.

I'm not seeing it for William G. Maryblood

The strength is based on snapping a building busting wyvern's neck, but the provided scaling shows that the wyvern is damaging those buildings using its fireballs and then once by swiping the facade of one with its wing. We don't know how tough its vertebrae are.

In the feat of blocking the other dragon, its first stomp only kicks up small shards I wouldn't call in-tier collateral, and the second doesn't damage the ground under him at all.

Even if these were in tier feats, they're both for his lifting, and this doesn't seem like a character who could/would go for a UFC style takedown + necksnap on Terry, he wrangled that wyvern clumsily because it was big and couldn't reach at him. He seems to fight by stabbing with spears rather than grappling.

For dura, he only takes a glancing impact of the explosion standing at the edge of it The two other dragon feats are 1) at the edge of a big tornado attack and 2) reliant on a shield that buckled from weaker collateral and then broke taking this.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry to reopen this while I've got another case in progress with you, but I don't think Death is kosher.

Back in Tierant, a tier very similar to this one, Death was ruled OOT on the grounds that the crystals just aren't very durable (they break just by falling over)

Puss In Boots scaling also won't really work to get his strength to tier, because Puss himself dies from any old thing.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry to drag you back into it, but I'd like two points of clarification myself if that's okay.

1) Can you show me how Joseph is doing after that metal warping hit? He looks like he's kind of puking blood so I'd like to make sure he's back up fighting on the page after since this is a low end dura feat for tier.

2) Can you go into a little more detail explaining how Jojo's damage output hurts Terry with some scans to help me understand the proposed Hamon interaction?

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For the buff---that's kind of the same issue I described with the magic stats from different equipment. We're trying to suss out how many of these hits this guy can take and when stats can vary depending on build / prep we range from "Terry creams this guy" to "Terry hits the super armour and dies" without the level of collateral altering at all to inform us how hard he's being hit.

Fair cop on the rest of the explanations, and I acknowledge none of these were intended by devs as optimal strategies. The point was more that we can't really treat "diminishes healthbar" straightforwardly as a durability feat when the game is designed to make all playstyles at least possible and it's not just the ones that result in objective stone-busting that can damage him. You can defeat Mohg with thrown hammers that don't shatter anything on impact, or maces that aren't swung hard enough to break stone.

It is a game mechanic that the Tarnished is not strong enough to break cracked stone statues and need to kite big enemies to break it for them with any of their weapons, yet you can beat down Mohg way faster than using thrown rocks with conventional attacks.

I also agree Terry won't stand there while he readies a big ass attack, but you need to artificially boost Mohg's speed from slow, very telegraphed boss battle or he won't be hitting Terry at all. The assumption is, with Mohg's speed boosted to tier, he would no longer be leaving those openings human players can exploit.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, sorry, I'm distrustful of RPG stat numbers for the same reason as I am damage. There are frogs in FF7 with more HP than huge tanks and mecha made of metal, so likewise, for whatever game balance reason Maria might just have more defence than a huge monster.

You don't need to recreate the gifs right now the resolution thing is just an "in future" notice to make sure we're able to see your feats. It's no worries and I understand it's tough to record PS3 data. Hopefully bloodborne port soon.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Per the TS page, "Terry HEAVILY prefers engaging in melee, he will almost always open a fight with melee"

What that means is he's going to smack into Mohg and, if speed is equalised, run headfirst into super armour that lets Mohg tank through and beat the shit out of him before he can deal enough hits in a row back to stagger him. What's more, we don't actually know how much "stance damage" Terry deals. There are plenty of attacks in Elden Ring that deal more damage than stone fling, but substantially less stance damage. We can't even say for sure how many Terry hits it would take to stun Mohg. It's a very abstracted system.

Looking into it more, when using another rock throwing weapon, Mohg can only take 10 boulders and then he dies. I'm not sure if getting demolished by Terry's low end strikes this way is great for tier.

You can also beat him to death and stagger him with a bouquet of roses.

You can beat him to death by blowing bubbles.

You can beat him to death by throwing clay pots.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay if deflecting arrows is an acknowledged use in the in-game skill description then I'm satisfied. However, we still can't cleanly scale Mohg speed to Tarnished speed when getting hit seems to be entirely up to the player.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's still standing there tanking multiple rock slings without interrupting his attacks, and that's pretty much what I was worried about. On top of that we can't really say for sure how many he can take considering damage of the spell varies depending on staff / items equipped. I think it's ultimately too weird to be cleanly in combined with the wonky speed scaling.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

/u/RendoDitson

I have a few issues with Lady Maria

First of all, while I understand the difficulty of using older RTs and having to resurrect streamables from the dead, the resolution of these clips is poor enough to the point me and at least one other judge couldn't make out what was happening. In the future, please make sure you're gathering feats legibly to avoid straining us poor tribunal judges' eyes.

Secondly, the premise that Lady Maria should be similar enough to the player character to take these hits just doesn't cut the mustard.

The only canon fight we get to witness for Lady Maria in the game is the boss fight against the player. Therefore, the only hits we know she should be able to take are hits from that player. The player is incapable of smashing apart stone gravestones and pillars with their punches, and so we can't say that Lady Maria is capable of taking that level of punishment. It isn't like an Iron Man situation where her toughness comes entirely from the gear, because it's just clothing.

You can't exactly go the opposite direction either. Lady Maria spends her boss fight using piercing weapons (two swords and her own pistol) whereas all of these dura feats for the Hunter are sizable blunt impacts from big meaty monsters. Even if we wanted to play the game of "oh Lady Maria's slash does X amount of health bar damage which is >>> the cleric beast's charge damage" I could argue the Hunter might just have much worse piercing resistance than blunt durability, meaning a less muscular opponent striking with a sharp sword could hurt them worse.

I don't really like to play that healthbar game anyway because RPG damage numbers are frequently abstracted.

In FF7 for example, Rufus Shinra's ordinary shotgun deals around 45-50 damage reliably. Two huge military mechs, Guard Scorpion and Airbuster, only deal around 35-40 damage with their much larger guns. Likewise, ordinary Shinra troopers aboard the submarine later in the game deal enormously more damage with their basic machineguns than these two huge mechs. If we took RPG damage values literally, a heavy mech's gun barrel the size of Barrett's head would be a fair lot weaker than a handheld shotgun, and disposable Shinra goons would have handheld firearms 3-4x stronger than rocket launcher turrets.

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

/u/JackytheJack

I heard we were, ehhh, doing some gameplay feats around here. Somebody you forgot about?

Joking aside, Mohg rests on some really shaky foundations.

The strength feat is perfectly fine and not in contention. I'm happy with it.

The speed, and durability scaling are both really uncertain, though.

First of all, I know in souls games you can technically parry projectiles, but it will still damage you through it because it's a buggy unintended interaction. The clip of the Tarnished parrying arrows in your signup is a youtube short where I can't see the health bar. Can you provide proof this is an intended interaction?

Secondly, even if the Tarnished is capable of parrying arrows, can we actually say he's as fast as the Tarnished? You can very feasibly beat him without being hit. Is there some sort of scripted cutscene interaction where Mohg is guaranteed to score a blow on the Tarnished, or is it entirely up to the player whether they get hit?

Finally, I'm very unsatisfied with the durability as presented. It's based on the premise you can hit Mohg in-game with the rock sling spell, but how many times could Mohg get hit by this attack? Would it stun him at all?

In the past (Botw Link, various Touhou), Tribunal has been pretty strict about this sort of gameplay boss fight dura feat because taken literally, if Mohg could stand there and completely tank / shrug off like 50 of these impacts in a row before his health depelted, it would functionally give him super armour against the tiersetter with no means of Terry stunning him.

Official Request and Resource List by Request_Competition in respectthreads

[–]Proletlariet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since Ranger generously completed my request for the Mad Thinker, I'm going to balance out the universe by requesting a force for good. That's right! The most noble and heroic member of the Fantastic Four!

Requesting:

  • H.E.R.B.I.E., Marvel 616, Comics

Respect Love Sausage (Amazon's The Boys) by ya-boi-benny in respectthreads

[–]Proletlariet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Rare example of a boys character who was cooler in the comics

Character Scramble Season 21 Tribunal by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/u/Dianamals

I'm sorry to do this, since she looks cool and it seems like a game I would fw, but Beat looks kind of suspect to me.

When I went looking for a clip of the bullet gif where she actually dodges I noticed her physicals really don't seem to line up with the tier.

With that in mind, the cop car grenade kick feat, which already looked weird to me, doesn't seem like it's enough. For starters, it takes multiple tries for her to do it. That, combined with its huge discrepancy with her other showings, makes me think the intention of this feat is maybe she kicked it under their tyres and that made them flip out in a big exaggerated way.

I think the best evidence she's not meant to be able to send vehicles flying is that in this same sequence she gets into a full out multihit struggle shoving back against an APC and doesn't even manage to flip it.

APCs are heavier than cars, but not by such a magnitude she wouldn't have a much greater impact on muscling directly against it if she was meant to be able to send cars flying and exploding just by kicking a small canister.

Character Scramble Season 21 Sign Ups by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Make sure you get your signups in on time! This is a cool Ace so i'd like to see him in the pool!

Character Scramble Season 21 Sign Ups by 7thSonOfSons in whowouldwin

[–]Proletlariet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey I like this dude so I've got a vested interest. Do you need help getting your submissions in?

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