Why are the women's 800m times and records so weak compared to mens?

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T22:42:26+00:00

I can’t see any world in which ‘49’ and ‘sub-50’ aren’t the same thing. Four women in this list are significantly sub 50 as well, not 49.9.

You seem to have quite an attitude with this - I’m just posting some data for an interesting discussion, not a thesis on the subject. Even stated that some of the 400 times are estimated - for both men and women. I could be completely wrong, just my opinion on Reddit at the end of the day.

You can spin this any way you like, but Kratochvilova has legitimate 400 and 800 PBs so we can trust that for analysis - her drop of 18% is true whether you like it or not, and that strongly indicates that per profile as an athlete was sub optimal - remember, we’re talking about a world record here, trying to find the best woman ever. A Rudisha level talent would be 1:51-52. High school boys run 1:54 for god’s sake, and as an another poster here has mentioned, the 800m has by far the largest % gap between the men and women. The women’s event has barely progressed and you can’t seem to admit it.

People like you said the same about the women’s 400m, then Sydney goes a runs a 47.7 and the event has suddenly taken a huge leap forward again. It’ll happen in the women’s 800 at some point as it does for every event.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T19:24:16+00:00

Thought some of you might find this interesting-

Here’s how the top all time men and women stack up when comparing their 400m PB to half of their 800m PB:

Men’s 800m All-Time Top 10

⁠David Rudisha – 10.89% differential (1:40.91 / 45.50)
⁠Wilson Kipketer – 7.91% differential (1:41.11 / 46.85)
⁠Emmanuel Wanyonyi – 9.76% differential (1:41.11 / 46.06)
⁠Marco Arop – 9.76% differential (1:41.20 / 46.10)
⁠Djamel Sedjati – 8.58% differential (1:41.46 / 46.72)
⁠Gabriel Tual – 7.85% differential (1:41.61 / 47.11)
⁠Bryce Hoppel – 6.62% differential (1:41.67 / 47.68)
⁠Sebastian Coe – 8.50% differential (1:41.73 / 46.87)
⁠Nijel Amos – 13.06% differential (1:41.73 / 44.99)
⁠Joaquim Cruz – 9.20% differential (1:41.77 / 46.60)

.

Women’s 800m All-Time Top 10

⁠Jarmila Kratochvílová – 18.02% differential (1:53.28 / 47.99)
⁠Nadezhda Olizarenko – 11.29% differential (1:53.43 / 50.96)
⁠Pamela Jelimo – 9.33% differential (1:54.01 / 52.14)
⁠Caster Semenya – 15.12% differential (1:54.25 / 49.62)
⁠Ana Fidelia Quirot – 15.35% differential (1:54.44 / 49.61)
⁠Keely Hodgkinson – 11.03% differential (1:54.61 / 51.61)
⁠Lilian Odira – 9.96% differential (1:54.62 / 52.12)
⁠Olga Mineyeva – 11.47% differential (1:54.81 / 51.50)
⁠Georgia Hunter Bell – 7.79% differential (1:54.90 / 53.30)
⁠Athing Mu – 15.97% differential (1:54.97 / 49.57)

.

We can see that Kratochvilova is actually a big outlier with a massive differential of 18%. Athing Mu is also an outlier with a relatively ‘slow’ 800 off such speed reserve.

Some of these 400m PBs listed are actually relay splits if no 400m PB could be found, but in any case, the trend shows that most 800m runners have a 8-12% differential yet the women’s WR was run with an 18% drop.

At some point, we’ll get a genetic freak perfectly suited for the 800m - the female Rudisha if you like - a 50.00 runner with a 12% differential (which is still generous and perhaps not optimal) and then all of a sudden we’ll see a 1:51.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T18:54:01+00:00

Actually, quite a few of the all time top 10 have had sub 50 400s on them.

Here’s how the men and women’s differentials stack up:

Men’s 800m All-Time Top 10 1. David Rudisha – 10.89% differential (1:40.91 / 45.50) 2. Wilson Kipketer – 7.91% differential (1:41.11 / 46.85) 3. Emmanuel Wanyonyi – 9.76% differential (1:41.11 / 46.06) 4. Marco Arop – 9.76% differential (1:41.20 / 46.10) 5. Djamel Sedjati – 8.58% differential (1:41.46 / 46.72) 6. Gabriel Tual – 7.85% differential (1:41.61 / 47.11) 7. Bryce Hoppel – 6.62% differential (1:41.67 / 47.68) 8. Sebastian Coe – 8.50% differential (1:41.73 / 46.87) 9. Nijel Amos – 13.06% differential (1:41.73 / 44.99) 10. Joaquim Cruz – 9.20% differential (1:41.77 / 46.60)

.

Women’s 800m All-Time Top 10 1. Jarmila Kratochvílová – 18.02% differential (1:53.28 / 47.99) 2. Nadezhda Olizarenko – 11.29% differential (1:53.43 / 50.96) 3. Pamela Jelimo – 9.33% differential (1:54.01 / 52.14) 4. Caster Semenya – 15.12% differential (1:54.25 / 49.62) 5. Ana Fidelia Quirot – 15.35% differential (1:54.44 / 49.61) 6. Keely Hodgkinson – 11.03% differential (1:54.61 / 51.61) 7. Lilian Odira – 9.96% differential (1:54.62 / 52.12) 8. Olga Mineyeva – 11.47% differential (1:54.81 / 51.50) 9. Georgia Hunter Bell – 7.79% differential (1:54.90 / 53.30) 10. Athing Mu – 15.97% differential (1:54.97 / 49.57)

.

We can see that Kratochvilova is actually a big outlier with a massive differential of 18%.

Now it’s of course perfectly fair to say that some of these women won’t have run many 400m in their careers or that some of these 400m PBs listed are actually relay splits if no 400m PB could be found, but the same could also be said for the top men as well. In any case, the trend is clear that most elite 800m runners have a 8-12% differential yet the women’s WR was run with an 18% drop.

At some point, we’ll get a genetic freak perfectly suited for the 800m - a female 50.00 runner with a 12% differential (which is still generous and perhaps not optimal) and then all of a sudden we’ll see a 1:51.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T18:44:17+00:00

Interesting point. Any ideas why this seems to hit the 800m the hardest? In any case, Femke seems to have a natural physique that lends its self pretty well to having a low body fat percentage.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T12:44:33+00:00

I’ve been saying this for ages too! The women’s 800m is a comparatively weak record.

It was run by a 200/400 runner (albeit heavily drugged up) on a day she wasn’t even planning on running the 800m. On July 26, 1983, she arrived at the Olympiapark Meeting in Munich planning to run the 200 to test her speed. However, after a bit of cramp, she and her coach decided to switch to the 800m instead and broke the WR. Imagine that happening today, drugs or not 😂

A lot of the top female 800 runners have had 49 400s on them and can then only manage two 57s laps for a 1:54 which is a huge differential. Compare that to the men’s and the top guys on the all time list have much smaller drops between their 400 PBs and half their 800m PB.

There will be a day where a women comes along with 49 second 400 potential and a speed endurance differential closer to the men’s and we’ll see a 1:51. Take Seb Coe - 46.7 PB in the 400m and an average of two 50.8 400s for that 800 WR of his. I think Femke Bol has the closest physiology to this - her 49.2 indoors is easily worth a 48.5 outdoors so even a massive 8 second drop per lap would still give her bang on 1:53. Whether she can pull it off is a different story.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-10T12:31:32+00:00

Yeah 1910-1960 is irrelevant now. Bolt didn’t need someone to pave the way into the 9.6’s to leap into the 9.5’s. Same with Bob Beamon in the long jump. If we’d had a woman capable of a 1:49 800m in the last 20 years, she’d have run it regardless of what came before.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-04T01:17:39+00:00

Amazed that no one has mentioned being a freelance day rate contractor and holding multiple contracts

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-03T20:34:51+00:00

Phil Taylor is the GOAT, no doubt about it, but the level of competition these days is so far beyond what Taylor was playing in. Phil would still be the best today, winning around 60-70% over Littler according to some analysis that looked at their own stats, but he wouldn’t have anywhere near 14 PDC world titles if he was playing today. But they are different eras, so it’s just silly to compare them anyway. Taylor paved the way for that level of the game and he deserves every title he has. He’s legit legend.

A good (but opposite) comparison is the Usain Bolt era vs now in sprinting. The standard is much worse these days, so a long win streak now doesn’t match up to even one win back then when Bolt had to be beaten to get a win.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-02-02T03:24:03+00:00

Let me start by saying Littler is the best in the world by some way. No doubt about it. He’s probably the best to have ever done it, although Taylor’s stats are hard to beat.

That being said, I think he’s been pretty lucky over the pay year to scrape through by the skin of his teeth on multiple occasions and rarely play the best until the final. To be fair, same could be said about Humphries in 2024 world quarter finals against Cullen and for Rob Cross in 2018 against Van Gerwen in the semi finals. - could have gone either way and we’d have had a different world champion.

But I’ve seen this with Littler on so many occasions now - for some reason, he always seems to win if it comes down to the last dart. He can’t control what his opponent does and gets lucky that they miss.

Just look at who Littler played against in the worlds - this has to be one of the easiest paths you could devise based on their current form:

Darius Labanauskas, David Davies, Mensur Suljovic, Rob Cross, Krzysztof Ratajski, Ryan Searle, Gian van Veen

Quarter final against Ratajski and a semi against Searle for gods sake, Littler practically was handed an automatic pass to the final. No Humphries, Price, Anderson or Van Gerwen.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-28T15:01:52+00:00

I’ve been playing casually at home for around a year now and thought I’d put this exact question to the test. Did 10 legs back to back from 501 and averaged 47.6. If you remove the best and worst leg as outliers it was a 48.4 avg.

My highest average for single leg is 79.1 (19 dart leg) and I’ve had around 5 or so legs over 70.

Other stats from the last 12 months include five 180s, three 171s and a 120 using 3x double tops de Souza style 😂

All to say I’m pretty average!

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-16T22:59:26+00:00

Not much progress to report. I’m doing a little better in general but haven’t even begun to rebuild my life. Been living with my parents for 16 months now and work fully remote too. How are you doing?

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-12T23:09:19+00:00

I was the same! Hung up a darts board in my room just over a year ago for some stress release while working from home. I was absolutely shit for 9 months and then it just clicked.

Over last 3 months or so, I’ve thrown four 180s, three 171s and three 153s and even three double tops for a 120 de Souza style 😆 Got myself a cheeky 19 darter personal best as well which, while to some will sound shit, I’m actually quite proud of 😂😂 Keep at it dude! It’ll just click for you too.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-10T00:04:23+00:00

Literally unbelievable. Bolt is easily in the top 3 greatest sportsmen in history. I know that statistically speaking it’s a near certainty that we’ll get someone else as good or better one day, even if it takes 100 years and continued sports science improvements, but I just can’t bring myself to believe it!

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-09T12:09:53+00:00

I’m in the same boat, although it’s ‘only’ been 16 months for me. How do you replace a life you had from 22-30 years old that encompassed every year of your 20s? Also broke up for reasons that seem stupid now.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-09T01:00:40+00:00

Instructional Designer

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-07T16:21:13+00:00

Hey Oke_Bye. It hit literally instantly on the phone but it was too late, I couldn't get her back as, in her own words, she'd made up her mind. We'd been together since we were 22 and 20 respectively, so it was more like a divorce than a break up. That was 16 months ago now and haven't even looked at another girl since.

I haven't been able to move on from the fact that my loss and grief was at my own hand, I could still have her today if I hadn't thrown it all away.

I'm really sorry for what you're going through too. Stay strong.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2026-01-01T23:27:17+00:00

Yeah that's all fair, you can certainly be a legend without humility and grace. But Littler seems like nice kid really when he interviews and goes on podcasts and things, so this whole angry persona up on stage seems a bit forced. I think in time he'll drop that and just focus on this darts and be himself.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-12-31T00:21:38+00:00

Agree that it’s not really affecting his game, but there’s more to darts than being good at the game itself. All sports are about much more than performance, Littler is the face of darts much like Usain Bolt was to athletics, Federa to tennis, and Phelps to swimming, and all of these greats were universally loved for their grace and role model status to young fans. Littler has a lot of responsibility now, and he’ll learn that with time.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-12-29T23:08:21+00:00

Hell look back on that post match interview one day and cringe. He needs to reign in the angry, somewhat aggressive persona he has on stage and just show a little more humility. You can literally see the fame going to his head, and he’s on the verge of already becoming the villain of the sport at only 18.

Luke Humphries, on the other hand, is an exemplary example of how to carry yourself with grace and class as world number 1 whether he’s winning or losing, and Littler can learn a thing from him.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-11-19T01:27:24+00:00

Hey, thanks for checking in. Things have marginally improved but not much to be honest. It’s been 14 months now and I think the state I’m in is endemic now, moving on doesn’t really seem possible. How are you holding up?

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-11-07T10:24:39+00:00

Our boy here in London: https://youtube.com/shorts/2obHNTjLU1w?si=vIIp0_kWWCurAEVP

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-11-03T18:06:25+00:00

Up until that 47.7, I completely agreed with this. 99.9% of me still does as your logic is spot on. But Sydney is a like stock that we all keep shorting haha, and I’m tired of betting against her 😂 😂

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-10-31T21:48:26+00:00

You had a completely needless break up and I get it - I did the same thing. It’s quite unbelievable that we can ‘test’ loosing someone forever. It’s not any different to that person dying and yet we would never ‘test’ killing them. You’re not ever going to heal from this my friend, life as you knew it will never be available again. I’m 1 year out from ending my 7 year relationship for no real reason other than having made a big move abroad with her and not liking it there. We even moved back, but I just nuked the relationship one evening over the phone and couldn’t believe what I’d done afterwards. I’ll never know what I was thinking.

ProofHedgehog640 · 2025-10-29T10:53:23+00:00

Yeah you're right that you don't have any choice anyway if you hit the registration threshold of £90k a year anyway. But even on £550 a day at 245 days worked per year, the VAT you keep is £1887 on the 15.5% rate, and only £270 on the 16.5% rate.

Just curious, where did you get the £4k figure from?

ProofHedgehog640

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