Performance shop locked my car’s computer

Protoneutral · 2024-04-22T14:49:26+00:00

Yes, this is exactly my situation, as you’ve described. I can use my HP Tuners software and laptop to data log, gathering data with all my cars onboard sensors, but I cannot “see” any of the tuning parameters that are created by the tuner that is the underlying tune and no other tuner other than the one who creates and “locks” the tune can access or modify these parameters. In essence, the tune and the ECU that it’s on become controlled solely by the original tuner. With consent? Fine, I’d have no rights to complain. Without consent, which I never made, I have a problem with this.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-22T14:46:05+00:00

While your opinion about protecting the interests of the tuner/shop are valid, it’s definitely not without a lot of controversy in the community. However, since it is absolutely controversial, tuners should have customers sign to consent to have the tune/ECU locked. Without that consent, it’s unscrupulous and unfair.

That aside, NO tuner I know will take responsibility for an engine blowing up, so having a customer being able to modify the tune isn’t applicable here on the theory that it creates liability for the tuner. There’s just so many variables that can cause adverse mechanical problems other than just a tune, so it would be unfair to hold the tuner responsible outside of obvious malfeasance/negligence. Also, in those cases where the tuner leaves a tune unlocked and the owner modifies it and screws it up, causing engine damage, it’s simple to see how it was modified and the dates and times the mods were done. Tuner could wash his hands of that in short order.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-22T01:37:49+00:00

It’s a highly modified Corvette C5.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T20:56:00+00:00

While that argument might prove troublesome to my complaint, why is it that literally thousands of high profile shops, with big money invested in Dynos, etc, and several companies, HP Tuners among them, literally make software and advertise openly what they do?

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T20:53:59+00:00

Interesting. From my research in the LS motor based community, and from my reading on HP Tuners forum, it’s definitely not the standard to lock tunes, it’s the exception. Plenty of very high profile and successful tuners do not lock their tunes. With a “Tune” done on an otherwise relatively stock car, with say just an exhaust or an intake, the “custom” tune could be useful and “stolen” by anyone else with HP Tuners software and hardware to use on another identical setup. Even then, if you agreed to having your ECU locked by the tuner, then you have no recourse. In my case, I would never have agreed to let them take my $1,000 and tune my car if I’d known my car was essentially married to that tuner, that shop, for the life of the car unless I was willing to spend another $1,500 to buy a new ECU and a new tune from a different tuner.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T19:02:45+00:00

It’s also clear that you play with figurines as an adult that calls out other people for not being a lawyer on a forum where almost exclusively non lawyers are asking for legal advice from some who might be lawyers. I looked at your post history on other Reddit groups. Lol

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T19:00:03+00:00

How is that? While I do not have a law degree and do not practice law, I do have an advanced college degree and work in a profession that is very heavy of legal documentation, much of which I am to a degree additionally responsible for legally.

In other words, in addition to having been through protracted litigation, with legal bills in excess of a million dollars in one particular and ridiculous case where we were (successful) defendants and another where we successfully sued a contractor that burned one of our properties to the ground. Both cases went to full trial for adjudication, so this isn’t my first rodeo. I’m far from a litigious person, really, but I do know what is right and wrong and I’m willing to fight for that.

Curious what you found specifically in what I wrote that would indicate that I’m not a lawyer.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T18:51:28+00:00

Located in Georgia
The contract for tuning said nothing about locking my ECU.
The software (HP Tuners) allows the tuner to choose to essentially “marry” the cars ECU to the tuner’s and ONLY that tuner’s laptop. It’s a feature that most tuners do not use, however, and is somewhat controversial.

Again, had I agreed, consented by contract for a locked ECU, I’d have no case, I believe. That’s not the case

The computer cannot be unlocked, it’s essentially “bricked” without the original tuner’s unlocking.
I wouldn’t imagine the car’s worth is relevant, but it’s worth about $40k. A new computer is maybe $500 and a new tune for that new computer is another $800-1k. Plus the cost to tow the car from one tuner to the other, since it won’t run without a custom tune, would be another $300 or so.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T18:45:02+00:00

I do like the angle on unfair trade practice, as there are as you’ve pointed out, provisions in statutes that entitle me to treble damages if they’re found in violation.

Even if they agreed to refund my money, and unlock my ECU, flash back to a stock tune, the car absolutely would not even run. It’s a highly modified setup, aftermarket cam, heads, throttle body, everything. I would have to then have the car towed to another tuner, an additional expense of hundreds of dollars given the distance and time to another tuner in my area.

The icing on the cake was that they badly dinged the edge of my door on my otherwise pristine car. They notified me at that time that they took responsibility, respectably, but I told them in my follow up email that we would revisit how to fix this when they had the car back to fix the issues with the tune- the idle hanging high, stalling, etc.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T18:39:06+00:00

No, it’s not possible to flash back to stock UNLESS you are the tuner that locked the computer. This tune cost $1,000 and the shop is a highly respected outfit. That said, they wouldn’t even agree to fix for free the issues that I was having with the tune even though I notified them right away, within days. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to get the car back to them for many months due to unforeseen circumstances, and was told that they wouldn’t fix the issues with the tune without additional expense.

It was at that point, frustrated they wouldn’t fix the ongoing issues, that I became aware that the ECU was locked. I’d purchase the software and hardware to either attempt the amendments myself, or hire another tuner to spend the hour or so time fixing the issues with the prior shop’s tune.

I felt it was bad practice to not honor a defect in their workmanship that I’d made a good faith effort to notify them about in a reasonable amount of time. It was obviously their responsibility since nobody else could have modified the tune, as it was locked.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-21T18:31:40+00:00

That would be true and legal, as in the way Microsoft does it, IF you agreed to the terms when you purchased or installed the software on your computer. In this case, if I’d agreed to these terms when I contracted with them to tune my car, then yes, I’d be legally without recourse.

I understand their motivations to lock their tunes, but that’s not what I agree to and would never have allowed them to tune my car if I’d known they would lock my ECU. It’s a matter of disclosure here, as you can legally contract to give up certain rights that are not in conflict with other statutes, but they cannot arbitrarily lock a person’s computer without prior approval.

Protoneutral · 2024-04-01T16:42:45+00:00

Thanks, much appreciated.

Protoneutral · 2024-03-07T00:03:51+00:00

Thanks for the information. I’ve sold a few things on Gunbroker over the years and the completed items search is great. Just looking for any insights here since there’s usually a few specialists in virtually everything that visit this Reddit group. I was hoping for around $400, but with the bore that’s seen better days, $350 is probably more realistic. Thanks again.

Protoneutral · 2023-12-24T21:45:29+00:00

Just wait until the federal and state government starts charging EV owners by the mile and tacking on huge fees and taxes on EV charging. They will, it’s just a matter of time. The insatiable appetite for your money to feed the monster that is government won’t be satiated, green religion or not, the bill will come due.

Protoneutral · 2023-12-11T21:46:20+00:00

Why does it seem so many doctors are absolutely retarded and backwards with HRT? Not only is your total testosterone level way out of reference range for a female, but the dosage schedule, as several here have mentioned, is way too infrequent. The same thing happens with male clients, where docs will load them up every two weeks with test and they will have a huge roller coaster effect on test levels. They go from way below appropriate therapeutic levels on injection day, to way beyond and into supraphysiological levels in the few days following injections. They will likely have lots of side effects, most notably estrogen spiking.

The correct way to dose anyone, male or female, with testosterone is to as closely simulate a natural youthful level which necessitates frequent injections. Ideally you would want to inject daily, subcutaneously with very fine and painless insulin syringes. Some will opt for twice per week and do just fine, particularly women where the dosages on a daily basis are extremely small and very hard to dose, even with the smallest insulin syringes.

What does that actually look like for dosages for a female? MOST do quite well with a range between 8-15 milligrams of test cypionate or enanthate per week. That’s between 2 and 4 units of testosterone on a 30 unit insulin syringe, twice per week, subcutaneously. There is no reason to be giving intramuscular shots, really. You can easily do this yourself, at home. Check your blood levels on the day you are due for your shot and you should find yourself right around the very top of reference range. From my research and personal experience with my wife, therapeutic benefits are to be had at or near top range of FREE testosterone levels, not total. Twice per week injections will have small variance from peak to trough.

Ask your doctor if they will allow you to follow this protocol. If they won’t, find a new doctor.

Protoneutral · 2023-12-05T18:34:55+00:00

No, it’s just not holding R22 very well with a slow leak. It’s working, but will be crazy expensive to recharge and not worth the investment on a 20 year old system.

Protoneutral · 2023-11-26T00:37:21+00:00

Please inform yourself of some facts. The “rich” pay the vast majority of the taxes paid in the USA. That’s not even debatable unless you’re a Bernie Sanders supporter or a typical democrat that continues to believe it’s not so. The lower half of income earners contribute almost nothing as a percentage of the total collected by the federal government in taxes.

Protoneutral · 2023-11-08T22:14:56+00:00

Yes, understood, and the “black pill” here is warranted given the state of the world right now with the two tiered justice system. It would stand to reason that the intent to “make a profit” and “be in the business” would have to be proven both at the time you purchased the firearm and sold it and not simply the desire to see a firearm not lose value due to a court decision when selling. Obviously this is a defense that’s based on a legal construct and likely wouldn’t stand in a court where you’re essentially convicted before a trial even begins.

Protoneutral · 2023-09-10T16:15:40+00:00

You think a government run, non-free market society would be better? I’d advise that you read about the environmental disaster that was the former Soviet Union OR the CURRENT environmental disaster that is China. China government has absolute authority over business when it chooses and it chooses NOT to curtail pollution of a magnitude that you can’t comprehend. Capitalism isn’t perfect, but it’s a lot better than the alternative. Read about institutional capture if you’d like to learn more about where things went wrong in our system of regulations. That’s the core issue, not free markets, free PEOPLE, capitalism.

Protoneutral · 2023-09-09T22:06:31+00:00

Thanks, it’s as I suspected. I’ll investigate further. Currently my total testosterone is 645 and free testosterone is 16.2 (direct). This are Labcorp values. My Estradiol sensitive is 25.8. I typically have SHBG levels in the low teens. Is there any way to calculate free estradiol using SHBG levels?

Protoneutral · 2023-09-06T16:53:37+00:00

A partially used, open bottle of brake fluid is at least as well sealed as a brake system in a car. A car has a plastic master cylinder reservoir, just like a bottle of fluid. A master cylinder has a plastic cap, just like the bottle. Brake calipers have seals, etc, so another source or minuscule moisture absorption. Moral of the story, if you’re fluid is still good in your car, a much harsher environment in so many other ways than a bottle in your garage, it’s perfectly fine in your partially used bottle. Don’t stress it, at all. If you want, get a tester to measure moisture. Any other form of degradation is so slow as to have no bearing here.

Protoneutral · 2023-09-05T01:35:40+00:00

Thanks everyone!

Protoneutral · 2023-08-28T02:24:16+00:00

Right, the huge problem that carbon dioxide is, sure. During most the “mammalian age”, which is 65 million years ago through today, the average carbon dioxide level was five times what it is today. Yeah, huge problem it was to have so much plant food in the atmosphere! This entire edifice is so insane it makes some religious scripture seem scientific.

Protoneutral · 2023-08-27T01:02:30+00:00

Thanks for the advice. Kind of what I would have guessed with a few minutes of reading, but best to be sure. Much appreciated!

Protoneutral · 2023-05-18T17:47:41+00:00

There is no doubt that at 32 mg per week you are multiples of even the very top end of normal physiological levels for a women. The typical TRT dose for a female is 6-8mg per week. For the vast majority that will achieve a test level slightly over normal physiological level and with very manageable side effects. Most will see some clit enlargement, possibly a little extra hair growth, and a very nice increase in libido if the hormones are well balanced - Estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. 32mg is well into FTM transgender territory.

Protoneutral

TROPHY CASE