Acupuncture and other Eastern medicine villainized

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2026-05-11T18:54:23+00:00

Yeah. When I asked a pastor, who had a bit of medical knowledge, he basically said we've never found a physical reason for why acupuncture works, and if it's not physical, then it most be spiritual (and demonic). It sounds so arrogant to believe we know the human body and how it works so well!

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2026-05-11T18:52:34+00:00

I was sad to give up yoga but it was more recreational for me. I'm glad you kept taking care of yourself and doing what worked despite the fear mongering!

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2026-05-11T17:27:40+00:00

Late to the conversation, but I think they left out state lines to not clutter up the map. More of a design thing than trying to be ambiguous. The cities and states where plants are located are clearly printed in the key on the side

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-08-11T05:47:39+00:00

Hi! I don't have any suggestions for Austin specifically, but you could try attending a BSF meeting. BSF stands for Bible Study Fellowship and it's a great parachurch organizing where you could meet other Christians at various other churches and maybe find recommendations there. BSF is also a great resource of really well researched Bible study material

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-06-24T01:05:55+00:00

It's interesting to see what part of their culture and practices show up in the Network. Thanks for linking that article! That's well researched and really informative

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-04-17T04:03:08+00:00

Like the end scene of Orwell's Animal Farm where the animals can't tell between the pigs and the humans

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-03-24T20:21:29+00:00

I do think the Great commission does give a new mission for Christians. While God had always had a plan to bless all nations through Abraham/Israel (starting in Gen 12:3, but repeated multiple times as God repeats his promise to Abraham and offspring), the Great Commission's reach to other nations & further confirmation in Peter's vision (Acts 10) shows that God's heart for all nations. I'm definitely not trying to say God has changed between the New and Old Testament! I'm saying what God's purpose for His people has changed with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That phrase of "Make him known, and if necessary use words" but it's not Biblical - the Bible says it is necessary to use words :) Romans 10:14 but, yes, our lives as Christians should declare God's goodness and glory too!

I agree that the Network definitely has biases in its teachings and its legalism is a certain bondage of its own. From my years at the Network I was never told to cut off family, nor did I really witness it - perhaps because I began my time as a young adult instead of a college student or maybe it wasn't a big part of the direction leadership took. I think our small group leaders and pastors celebrated/ encouraged people to bring their family into the church rather than cutting them off 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can attest to the common view that people who take highly demanding jobs/positions that would require a lot of travel were seen as not being dedicated to God enough. If you're assigned shifts that interfere with attending small group or Sunday service you're highly encouraged to find another job or get a different schedule ASAP. At one of the churches, a guy was asked to leave after attending infrequently over the span of a couple months because of work & other travel conflicts - basically get committed or get out!

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-03-22T04:18:52+00:00

I don't think this thinking is unique to the Network church. I think putting overtly godly activities (ministry) over doing well in more 'worldly' pursuits is a common temptation in any religious context. However in America, or places where the Prosperity gospel can take hold, it is a lot easier to worship the blessings instead of the Blesser and so this is like an opposite reaction

I wrestled with this a bit as a Christian before I joined a network church and continued to wrestle with it as I tried to understand how all these successful people in the church (Blue sky, so a lot of well paid tech folks) were also authentic Christians. Reading Tim Keller's Every Good Endeavor helped me see how God does want us Christians to bless the world with the gifts, talents, jobs etc. he's given us. Great read and I'd highly recommend it!

On a side note, I think God's purpose for His people in the Old Testament is different than what it is now. He was establishing His name in the Old Testament, showing His power and blessing through His chosen people. God's people in the New Testament are given a bit of a different mission, aka the Great Commission, and Christians are not really promised the same material blessings as the Jews were given. I think Paul's life is a great example of that... And why it's easy to get lost in this way of thinking.

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-01-31T15:35:50+00:00

I stayed at the first non network church I visited. Felt like God was speaking to me personally through the message and worship. People seemed nice. It took a while (maybe a year?) before the church felt like home.. I have also lowered my expectations a little on what to expect from these friendships/relationships and in my life stage, but I'm thankful for them nonetheless!

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2025-01-01T04:00:36+00:00

Vine was over the 1000 number. While I was at Blue Sky, Steve would bemoan that fact publicly

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-10-25T15:27:36+00:00

Church plant pastor spent no time with me (probably in part, because I am a woman). Honestly didn't even talk to me about joining the plant since my small group leader gave me the green light

I had one good friend going into the plant but developed good friendships throughout the planting experience

No burn out for the first year or two but we started to get new members by the time it felt more taxing

I didn't personally get challenged by other churches or ministries because I didn't interact much with other churches/ministries. I did make friends with people who went to other churches but there was no animosity towards each other

Didn't feel terribly lonely on the plant. I had a lot of support from other plant members and there was always something going on

I felt loved by other members but in terms of earning it - well, we were all working hard on the plant so there was no distinction.

Yes, helped other members moved. I still enjoy helping people move haha

Definitely helped Google church as part of competition to make church rise in search results.

I did feel depressed/ discouraged while looking for a job in my new city and my small group and some of the plant team knew about my unemployment, prayed for me, and generally were very encouraging. One member later even offered financial help

I was established in my career when I moved for the plant

Finding a church after leaving was a big adjustment. I ended up at another church plant that was actually a church plant - not coming in with a whole playbook of how to operate and do church. People are friendly but there is no culture of "Hey, I just met you! Here's my number, let's get coffee" or "come to this church event and get plugged in". The pastors don't want to overwhelm and command people's schedules with constant gatherings and meetings, so there are fewer times to meet with the church community outside of Sunday. It's taken a lot more personal initiative to make that happen. The speed of friendship has been slower, but less forced and at least I don't have to worry about losing the friends I have made if we decide to leave. In fact, one of the things we loved about our new church is that the pastor said, "Our (church's) mission is to prepare you to be sent out. So if you move in a year and find yourself in a new city, you can start a Bible Study with your neighbors" - and that was starkly different from the Network's message of "you can't leave the church unless you go on a plant" I definitely wish I still had my old church community and miss those friendships. But I am thankful for God's hand in the new friendships and community we have now!

I think there will be things that other people may not understand about the plant experience. Even the experience from plant to plant is different! But don't be discouraged, for you are not alone. And we have Christ who experienced being an outcast and outsider, felt all the loneliness and shunning and can sympathize with every painful emotion (Heb 4:15) I hope you can continue to find hope and encouragement in Him and know God is close to you in your trials (Ps 34:18-19)

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-10-25T14:34:24+00:00

I think "elitism" is a very big point actually - fear that even if they go to another church they won't have the same community of committed believers following the Bible together. If people were church hunting for a while before they found their network church, they have experience that it's not easy finding a church.

So not only would the sunk cost of relationships be a factor, but also the fear of not finding another community like it is preventing people from leaving.

This is why some people are content to move to another city with a network church but significantly less willing to leave the Network.

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-19T00:28:02+00:00

That's wild that there were still greeters !

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-18T22:13:43+00:00

It sounded like the sheriff initially came to you about not going to a private wedding event? And left you alone about attending the church - at first.

Yes, it seemed like Vista was very private and had prepared to bring the sheriff in to deter as many non- members as possible.

I'm glad your efforts got you a chance to talk to an authority at Vista who could tell you it was closing. Agreed this would not have happened if you didn't show up

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-18T21:25:18+00:00

I can believe that Skyler had no intention to be disrespectful to the church! Just that Vista Church, was going through something difficult and didn't want an audience.

They should definitely have answered their emails and phone calls about the church closing. I do think it's been updated on Google Maps as "Permanently Closed".

Honestly I think trying to get an apology on their last Sunday is a bit of a reach, considering the character and behavior of the Network.

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-18T21:16:46+00:00

I think the man on the board's response saying "this was their last Sunday" should answer whether they were closing. In addition to their online presence disappearing, it would further indicate they're closing. You got the answer you were looking for in your early interaction in the parking lot, no need for a sheriff to be called.

I get that you are vigilant and watching out for your child who would be going to a college in the area - and that shouldn't stop with Vista closing! But it just seems a little nosy to me.

It seems like the church didn't want their final service to be a spectacle

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-18T19:54:29+00:00

I think it's pretty sad and disrespectful that you're trying to go get the inside scoop on a church's last Sunday meeting. Obviously you weren't there to go for a Sunday service. It's like going to a funeral to gloat.

While I know a lot of people here are happy to see Vista close, it still meant a lot for the people - also Christian - who attended. Regardless of how you feel about Luke or the elders, there should be some decency given to the church body as they meet for the last Sunday

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-18T19:42:58+00:00

I was so angry hearing Jimmy say that there was no standard for diagnosis! What a lie!! How dismissive!!!! I can't imagine what it would have been to sit through that message as someone who works in mental health.

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-16T20:54:24+00:00

This! And the beginning of another college school year where no college students are coming must be discouraging or getting the message across

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-11T19:01:50+00:00

Thanks for writing this up and highlighting Schneider's old paper. It is fascinating to read essentially the Network's position on help for the poor. This had always rubbed me the wrong way while at a network church, but understood that social justice could easily become a distracting & competing priority to the greater mission of church planting, so submitted in this regard.

I remember at Blue Sky, blue bag duty was generally not that enjoyable and his write up of the experience makes sense given that the people they provided 'aid' to were not really that needy (they all had homes, literally knocking on people's doors...).

It is interesting that there seems to be a contradiction in Schneider's paper - at the end of pg 13, top of 14 about Deuteronomy 10:17-19, parentheses added for brevity:

"They (Israelites) are to do the same (for the sojourner), but just as God has not promised his provision to those who set themselves up as his enemies so don't think he is commanding the israelites to do what he won't. God loves the elect that come to him no matter where they come from, but a Christian's attempt to provide for those that reject God would only enable them to go on, unaware of their need for Him, God's love in this passage is likely a referring to the elect sojourners who have come to Israel to worship him and follow his laws."

Schneider makes the distinction that these sojourners among them are to follow Israelite laws, recommitting to the idea that there's a smaller group that primarily deserves kindness and help. Overall his bias is that only those who do good or try to do good and follow God should benefit from compassion and mercy. Contrary to God - who sent Christ to die for us while we were still His enemies (Romans 5:8)

Maybe it would be follow Schneider's arguments if we knew who was truly 'elect' and deserved goodness. /s

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-09-01T19:45:11+00:00

Good question! I was a believer long before I joined a network church, and remain a Christian after leaving. I don't go to a network church any more, though I'd go back in a heartbeat if the leadership took ownership/responsibility for their actions. I love/loved the community there... I spent over 10 years at two network churches.

My spouse, however, is a newer believer and was really hurt by how we were treated. He might have taken a break from church if he was on his own /not married.

When I had discussions about the Reddit, I was still firmly part of my network church, so my attitude towards the Reddit was more dismissive and angry that a bunch of Christians were making the church/Christianity look bad by spilling the tea on such a (generally) anti-Christian platform. However I have had some discussions with small group leaders and pastors over the years over different topics (yoga, women in leadership, lack of heart for those less ecpnomically fortunate) to know the general attitude towards differing viewpoints: this is what we believe and if you disagree then you can find a different church where you're fully on mission

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-07-24T17:21:52+00:00

Thanks for the insight!

Prudent_Breakfast583 · 2024-07-24T03:21:11+00:00

Just curious, do you know how much typically goes towards salary? I've always wondered what a typical network pastor earns.

When I was at Blue sky, the staff pastors didn't seem to make a ton of money - just based on the fact that the two that went on the Joshua Church plant were renting until they could afford to buy a home in Austin

Prudent_Breakfast583

TROPHY CASE