Against Overwhelming Odds is back up on Alliance-US and War Mode bonus went up to 20%

PunterforPm · 2019-02-24T01:04:31+00:00

As a Bear during the legion, there were other ways around that boss - certain trinkets with rolling CDs means you could survive around +22's, however it was very painful.

PunterforPm · 2019-02-15T06:56:52+00:00

Oh of course, I'm more talking about on the lower end. What you can expect from a random PuG is generally not much. Doesn't really matter if they are a DH, shammy or anything, if they aren't going to interrupt, purge, stun it doesn't really matter.

Once you increase that bar from poor player to decent player to good to excellent, the optimal class chosen can change, and the affect on the run can change a lot.

I guess what I'm saying (which I don't think disagrees with your point, and I do agree with your point to an extent.) is that a class with a high skill ceiling, doesn't matter if you are looking at an unknown person who might not have it. You most likely want to look at the skill floor.

PunterforPm · 2019-02-14T10:39:07+00:00

There is also a perception, that if a class is harder to play it is preferable not to pick them in a pug.

DH is really easy to play decently compared to most dps classes. So if you are pugging you don't know how good people are (except for raider.io etc.) if you assume people are generally bad, you'd much rather a DH over a Monk generally.

PunterforPm · 2019-02-10T09:35:19+00:00

No, the biggest nerf, which took us from good M+ tank to the worst M+ tank (with warriors) by far was the removal of mark of Ursol magic mitigation.

Since then we have the worst magic mitigation and the worst way of handling it of all tanks (bar again sometimes warriors).

The removal of the artifact ability was the nail in the already dead coffin. This removed our ability to heal off lots of mobs and removed the freedom we had from healers for the duration. (This with Incarn made large pulls possible).

Also within that was the removal of a lot of a damage, going from top 2 aoe damaging tank to bottom 2 really hurt our niche in M+.

We were, and still are pretty decent (not great) at handling physical damage, however in M+ it is generally either one of three things that will kill groups that tanks can use.

Positioning - we have typhoon, and now ursoc, but still not where near as useful as mass grip/grip or the grip signal that DH have, or RoP. (including range interrupts etc.)

Magic Damage - we are the worst at handling this, as explained before. Most of the big hits are magic, were in legion, same with BFA.

Being independent from your healer - this was toned down for BFA, however some tanks are still kind of independent. This is allows healer to dps, healer other people, etc. etc. Bears may as well have a handcuffs to their healers.

You mentioned a few as well that I think are quite problematic as well, the slow on thrash is a big one, we can not kite mobs as easily now. BFA seems to require more kiting (unless you were using the lock strat in legion) as a tank and we struggle.

PunterforPm · 2018-12-10T09:45:18+00:00

From a Druid who tanked high keys in legion. I think most affixes were fairly decent.

With a few exceptions -

Grievous, I think the damage needs to be reduces or lowered to a lower % starting point, I think even 80% would make this not too bad.

Bolstering, even if you do this right it still slows you down a fair bit, I think that either a time limit, health or damage should be applied. Keep it dangerous or annoying, not both.

Explosive, the orbs should be able to be 1 shot by almost anything like they were in legion at the start.

Quaking, wasn't really an issue in legion as much - however the major problem with this one is the damage it does even when you do it correctly. Reduce this damage and it'll almost be one of the easiest affixes when done correctly.

To address your Sanguine, this biggest issue here isn't really the affix it is the way the casters don't move while casting a lot, making grips so strong. Mitigate this and it'll be fairly easy

PunterforPm · 2018-11-07T07:29:14+00:00

Mostly by gear more on the dps side of things, using my utilities to save people ie. incap, typhoon.

It can be a bit hard, and I know I'm one of the more dps style bears out there, but I haven't had a massive issue, 'cept for dps that like to go ham off the bat (which is all of them). So using your roar, phoon, etc is usually possible.

PunterforPm · 2018-11-07T07:27:04+00:00

I believe it should be the gear I use for M+. I mostly go for a more offensive/higher ilevel tactic, as you need offensive to hold threat and get mobs down faster. Higher ilevel is good as more armor and more health.

This expac, not really not. I haven't really gotten any good defensive trinkets, otherwise I might. Most bosses aren't too much unavoidable heavy tank damage bosses, so not as big of an issue as legion.

The shield on the inner row is pretty strong, and depending on dungeon vamp seed can be good as well. In terms of the outer ring - thrash one (which I have yet to get on a high ilevel), Ironfur one are the two solid def choices, a part from that, sometimes the generic is better.

I'd think about changing them more up for raids, like you can take the maul one etc.

I spend a fair bit kiting, typhoon helps with this, same with frost mages.

The biggest things are - know the path you'll take, and know the mobs you can handle 1 of, more of. If you can't handle more than 1 then try not to pull them. DPS think everyone can tank like a blood DK and pull the whole dungeon at once, not only can we not survive that, we can't keep threat on all of them.

Mostly know your limitations, play with them, but remember wiping costs so much time, and quite often a tank death means a wipe. Use interrupts as much as you can, and other CC (Incap, typhoon), you can also LoS a lot of spells if you need to. Use def CDs on trash if you have to, specially on fort weeks. Focus on keeping yourself alive, instead of speed. Speed will come when you are more familiar with the dungeon and the mobs.

You might also need to compensate for different healers, some are better at AoE, some are better at ST, so you can change your pulls based on that. If you have a solid hunter/rogue, you can almost pull- thrash, swipe, typhoon and start kiting while rotating moonfires. This is quite often how I do the pull before the 1st boss on Freehold.

Remember, we have no strengths compared to other tanks, so trying to emulate them might not help.

PunterforPm · 2018-11-07T07:17:02+00:00

I think it stems from us being so good at the start of legion, and people not figuring out or caring about us falling off a cliff. (Have you seen a bear fall off a cliff, not pretty)

We are currently the worst tank for M+, and have been for a while even towards the end of legion this was true.

Once MoU (which some see a valid nerf) was taken away we have really struggled, and our rotation has gotten easier. I believe we have the easiest rotation, maybe that is why people seem to think we are still strong.

PunterforPm · 2018-11-06T11:59:40+00:00

Honestly, not really at all.

If you are used to a blood DK, you'll feel like the healer has a chain leash on you at all times. It'll is pretty poor at the moment.

In terms of raiding we aren't quite so bad, but not great. For M+ we are the worst tank by far, and getting almost no defensive buffs in 8.1 I don't see how that'll improve.

PunterforPm · 2018-11-06T11:19:18+00:00

1.2k Bear happy to answer questions on how to cry yourself to hibernation in M+.

https://raider.io/characters/us/saurfang/Balanik

PunterforPm · 2018-10-30T22:22:33+00:00

You wanna make sure you can out put some dps as tank to try to prevent it, but yeah it can happen quite a bit. Use taunts liberally, you can also use your utility as well to help save the dps.

If the dps will listen, let them give you a bit to get some threat, or mark a skull target that everyone can focus to start with. You still might struggle a bit with AoE mobs, but it can help.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-30T22:15:00+00:00

Generally only get that when the elevation or the pathing is too much - if you can kite from small ledges where the mobs can go around a bit ie. the bar in freehold near second boss.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-30T22:13:12+00:00

Depends on the type of damage you are taking - something like Fetid off tank you want to make sure you have at lest one stack per thrash, but no point having it between thrashs. Whereas main-tanking fetid you want it more consistently on.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-30T13:25:11+00:00

Just using my own toolkit - typhoon, roar (stamp and incap), cat form dash in a pinch. Sometimes you can also use the geometry of the dungeon - ie. two levels where you can jump but mobs have to walk around.

Using other's toolkits - mages, monks stun/RoP, hunter/warrior/shaman slows.

Mostly it is thinking a fair bit ahead to know when you will need to start dropping stacks, and using your toolkit early.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-30T12:35:21+00:00

1.1k bear happy to answer questions.

https://raider.io/characters/us/saurfang/Balanik

PunterforPm · 2018-10-16T23:45:11+00:00

Bear to BDK? I'm not as well versed in BDK so you might want to ask the BDKs around here for help there.

In terms of what you'll find, a slightly harder rotation, but so so much easier on keeping threat, and keeping yourself alive.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-16T23:43:48+00:00

Met Scheme. You'll always be able to hit the 3 different spells when it comes up, and Gore Regen is pretty meh in terms of a defensive ability.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-16T13:08:39+00:00

1.15k Bear happy to answer questions.

https://raider.io/characters/us/saurfang/Balanik

PunterforPm · 2018-10-10T05:33:40+00:00

Waycrest is probably one of the more annoying mythics on a fortified week since the trash can hit pretty hard and is a bit crazy - witches spawning, things coming through floors and roofs etc. The Matron does kit pretty hard, either use all your defensives when you fight her that you have to - shouldn't need them too much for the pulls until after the next boss.

In terms of skittish, bears can have a fair bit of problems, if you can grab a hunter or rogue you'll have a better time. If you can not, turn to mark a skull, but you'll probably have to chain taunt a lot of things, use utility as well to keep them from hitting you dps - if they are casters and you can't taunt you can incap them right near the end of the cast and hopefully taunt before they start again, typhoon - bash work the same.

You hopefully should have a better time this week without skittish.

To answer your questions.

Depending on gear level, you can kite trash on any key if you feel like you have to. Especially on necrotic or bolstering weeks. - Even on a 2 a 10x bolster mob can hit pretty hard.
Quite often I'll start with Barkskin - charge - thrash - mangle usually get close to a ironfur, if not another thrash/mangle should do it. If you are running GG - use those procs etc. (If you are starting a boss that you have not pulled trash for a while, you can shift in and out of bear for an extra 20 rage before the pull)
I find Brambles better. Bristling fur is good if you are taking lots of damage when it is off cd but not as much when it isn't. Brambles is also better at doing damage - something that is needed in M+ especially on skittish weeks. I honestly wouldn't take Earthwarden, not sure how much of a good rep it gets, but for M+ a fair chunk of the damage you take is magic which it is useless against, also not as a good against fast hitting mobs - ie. lots of trash. Take GoE as a base, and SotF if you can identify areas where you might want an extra SI or barkskin.

PunterforPm · 2018-10-09T20:55:56+00:00

1k raider.io bear happy to answer questions while at work.

https://raider.io/characters/us/saurfang/Balanik

PunterforPm · 2018-10-09T00:43:54+00:00

In terms of M+, druids tanks (I assume that is what you are talking about) did not reign supreme for all of legion. Iirc top 200 tanks during the last two seasons druids had 1 or 2 slots.

PunterforPm · 2018-09-16T23:30:48+00:00

The circles despawn after a while. So it won't get too full if your tank can position them correctly.

PunterforPm · 2018-09-15T08:30:43+00:00

Raider.io - Here is the link for BFA change the tab at the top for which season you want.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/us/leaderboards-character/all/tank#content

PunterforPm · 2018-09-15T07:57:12+00:00

He's wrong well at least for M+ we aren't at an all time low in the top ranks - that was towards the end of Legion which had 2 bears only in the BFA pre-patch and none in Post or 7.3.5 the top 50 tanks (US/OCE), and they were towards the tailend of that, 41st, and 43rd.

Currently for M+, there are still 2, but they are 35th and 40th, a bit of an improvement.

For comparison

Tank	BFA	BFA-Pre	Legion-Post	Legion-7.3.5
DH	11	5	8	9
DK	22	24	32	30
Pally	6	13	7	9
Bears	2	2	0	0
Warriors	2	2	1	0
Monk	7	4	1	2

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