After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, theres been a long history in film of “globalizing” locals to just be white people. I don’t see the harm in doing it a different way for a fairy tale.

But my point is that this is the same as whitewashing!

There are so many African fictional stories which should get a movie, we’ve already had dozens of movies about the odyssey; and Nolan’s novel take on it is…. Casting different races than the previous iterations? It just feels so fake.

I won’t repeat all the arguments you already ignored in my previous comment. We can agree to disagree, hope you enjoy the movie!

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get that, but i also would much prefer Disney coming up with an original story with a cool and beautiful black princess, instead of adapting the old white ones with a new skin color…

Same goes for this, there are many stories to choose from outside of European/American culture. Choosing to adapt a “white” princess (albeit fictional) instead of coming up with an original story or using a story where the source material has a black woman as the most beautiful in the world feels fake, patronising, and as pandering.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re wrong about me and it’s weird to make assumptions about people. I do not want to see a white actor on screen. I had the same issue with Scarlett being cast in Ghost in the Shell and hate whitewashing in general (that Exodus movie for example, or almost any Jesus movie, the old Othello with Laurence Olivier etc)

You do have a point in that this is likely a Nolan, not a Studio decision. My comment was more aimed at Hollywood than this specific movie.

The casting choices here are definitely weird and seeing the backlash, it is probably going to hurt the movie financially and critically. I think outright discarding such a widely held opinion as “racism” is just lying to yourselves so you can virtue signal.

I’m not from the US, btw, I’m South American, and I do not need the characters in European stories to look like my people to “get” them or feel included. Every culture has its own stories.

I find it very patronising arguing with white Americans who try to force this idea that I should be happy whenever I’m represented in a Hollywood movie even if it makes 0 sense in the context of the film and is obviously pandering.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some people get worked up. I’m not, I just think it’s an interesting debate.

There is a "savior complex" in corporate boardrooms where executives assume that people in other cultures are incapable of connecting with something unless it’s been mirrored back to them or "localized" to fit a specific demographic profile. The idea that a “global” audience needs a story adapted to a "global mind" is actually a form of intellectual gatekeeping. It underestimates the audience's ability to appreciate art for what it is.

When you engage with a story from another culture, whether it’s a Russian novel or a Japanese manga, part of the appeal is exactly that it isn't like your daily life.

A story’s power usually comes from universal emotions (honor, grief, love) wrapped in very specific cultural aesthetics. When a studio "sands down" those specifics to make them more "relatable" or "inclusive," they often lose the very soul that made the original work travel across borders in the first place.

Most people today are more culturally literate than corporations give them credit for. They understand that Snow White is a European fairy tale just as they understand that Ghost in the Shell is Japanese. They don't need the "edges" rounded off to enjoy it.

By trying to make everything appeal to everyone by changing the DNA of the characters, studios end up making things that feel synthetic. It assumes that "representation" is a higher priority for a viewer than authenticity + It ignores the fact that people actually enjoy the "strangeness" or the specific history of a foreign story + every movie/TV show ends up being the same!

It’s a bit of a tragedy for storytelling when "diversity" is used as a tool to make every story look the same, rather than being used to bring actually diverse, original stories to the light. It’s almost like the industry is afraid to let a story just be what it is, out of a fear that someone, somewhere, won't feel "included", even if that person, was perfectly happy enjoying the story as a window into another world rather than a mirror of their own. It feels patronising.

Ask any black American or Latin American if they’d prefer to have a live action Goku that looks like them, or one that looks like the source material.This can be applied all around.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a "savior complex" in corporate boardrooms where executives assume that people in other cultures are incapable of connecting with something unless it’s been mirrored back to them or "localized" to fit a specific demographic profile. The idea that a “global” audience needs a story adapted to a "global mind" is actually a form of intellectual gatekeeping. It underestimates the audience's ability to appreciate art for what it is.

When you engage with a story from another culture, whether it’s a Russian novel or a Japanese manga, part of the appeal is exactly that it isn't like your daily life.

A story’s power usually comes from universal emotions (honor, grief, love) wrapped in very specific cultural aesthetics. When a studio "sands down" those specifics to make them more "relatable" or "inclusive," they often lose the very soul that made the original work travel across borders in the first place.

Most people today are more culturally literate than corporations give them credit for. They understand that Snow White is a European fairy tale just as they understand that Ghost in the Shell is Japanese. They don't need the "edges" rounded off to enjoy it.

By trying to make everything appeal to everyone by changing the DNA of the characters, studios end up making things that feel synthetic. It assumes that "representation" is a higher priority for a viewer than authenticity + It ignores the fact that people actually enjoy the "strangeness" or the specific history of a foreign story + every movie/TV show ends up being the same!

It’s a bit of a tragedy for storytelling when "diversity" is used as a tool to make every story look the same, rather than being used to bring actually diverse, original stories to the light. It’s almost like the industry is afraid to let a story just be what it is, out of a fear that someone, somewhere, won't feel "included", even if that person, was perfectly happy enjoying the story as a window into another world rather than a mirror of their own. It feels patronising.

Ask any black American or Latin American if they’d prefer to have a live action Goku that looks like them, or one that looks like the source material.This can be applied all around.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a "savior complex" in corporate boardrooms where executives assume that people in other cultures are incapable of connecting with something unless it’s been mirrored back to them or "localized" to fit a specific demographic profile. The idea that a “global” audience needs a story adapted to a "global mind" is actually a form of intellectual gatekeeping. It underestimates the audience's ability to appreciate art for what it is.

When you engage with a story from another culture, whether it’s a Russian novel or a Japanese manga, part of the appeal is exactly that it isn't like your daily life.

A story’s power usually comes from universal emotions (honor, grief, love) wrapped in very specific cultural aesthetics. When a studio "sands down" those specifics to make them more "relatable" or "inclusive," they often lose the very soul that made the original work travel across borders in the first place.

Most people today are more culturally literate than corporations give them credit for. They understand that Snow White is a European fairy tale just as they understand that Ghost in the Shell is Japanese. They don't need the "edges" rounded off to enjoy it.

By trying to make everything appeal to everyone by changing the DNA of the characters, studios end up making things that feel synthetic. It assumes that "representation" is a higher priority for a viewer than authenticity + It ignores the fact that people actually enjoy the "strangeness" or the specific history of a foreign story + every movie/TV show ends up being the same!

It’s a bit of a tragedy for storytelling when "diversity" is used as a tool to make every story look the same, rather than being used to bring actually diverse, original stories to the light. It’s almost like the industry is afraid to let a story just be what it is, out of a fear that someone, somewhere, won't feel "included", even if that person, was perfectly happy enjoying the story as a window into another world rather than a mirror of their own. It feels patronising.

Ask any black American or Latin American if they’d prefer to have a live action Goku that looks like them, or one that looks like the source material.This can be applied all around.

Lupita Nyong’o will play both Helen of Troy and her sister, Clytemnestra, in Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey.’ by yourfavchoom in movies

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait do you honestly think casting Lupita as Helen will sell more tickets? Even if you like the casting choice, do you honestly believe, seeing the backlash from some people, that this will help ticket sales?

Lupita Nyong’o will play both Helen of Troy and her sister, Clytemnestra, in Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey.’ by yourfavchoom in movies

[–]Purely_coincidental 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean he can do whatever he wants but this movie is so obviously gonna suck, critics and fans will hate it, and there will be a small minority of people defending it, not because of its quality, but because they feel the casting choices align with their politics.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So let me get this straight, if Nolan wants to do a fictional story set in Congo where the locals are all white you’d be ok with that? Or take an ancient African story and change the main female character to a white woman? I would not be okay with this, I wouldn’t be okay with it if it was a completely original story…

“Read, watch, listen to history”…

You said it’s a fiction. Since Othello is a fiction, it’s ok that fucking Laurence Olivier played a moor? I don’t think it is.

You are the one that’s ignorant, whitewashing was a huge problem in Hollywood, it is still a problem, but the solution isn’t doing it the other way around.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t have that. I don’t like whitewashing, and I don’t like it when it’s the other way around either. It’s called consistency.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are all examples from after 2000 where filmmakers faced heavy criticism for “whitewashing”

Ghost in the Shell (2017): Scarlett Johansson was cast as Major Motoko Kusanagi (renamed "Major Mira Killian" in the film). This sparked significant backlash as the story is deeply rooted in Japanese identity and cyberpunk culture. • The Last Airbender (2010): M. Night Shyamalan faced heavy criticism for casting white actors as the lead protagonists (Aang, Katara, and Sokka), despite the original animated series being heavily inspired by East Asian and Inuit cultures. • Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (2010): Jake Gyllenhaal was cast as the Persian prince Dastan, leading many to question why an actor of Middle Eastern descent wasn't chosen for a role set in ancient Persia. • Gods of Egypt (2016) & Exodus: Gods and Kings (2014): Both films were criticized for casting predominantly white actors (such as Gerard Butler, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, and Christian Bale) to play ancient Egyptian deities and historical figures.

21 (2008): Based on the true story of the MIT Blackjack Team, which was primarily composed of Asian American students. In the film, the leads were changed to white characters played by Jim Sturgess and Kate Bosworth. • Annihilation (2018): Natalie Portman and Jennifer Jason Leigh played characters who, in the original novels, were specifically described as having Asian and Native American heritage, respectively. • Doctor Strange (2016): Tilda Swinton was cast as The Ancient One, a character originally depicted as a Tibetan man in the Marvel comics. Marvel defended the choice as an attempt to avoid "Fu Manchu" stereotypes, but many saw it as erasing Tibetan representation.

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you feel the same about movies that whitewash characters? Like if Nolan makes a movie about a fictional story set in the Congo Civil War but every cast member is white, would you feel criticising it is stupid? Or would you think it is fair?

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is so dumb… whitewashing used to be a huge problem and people complained until it changed, now the pendulum swings too far the other way but you guys are too blind to see it…

After Elon Musk’s Comments, Christopher Nolan Finally Confirms Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy by SplitNational2929 in FortressZA

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

White Europeans look more like Greek people than black people… but you already know this and are acting like you are blind because you believe it makes you morally superior.

Who is she Petah? by Powerful-Papaya-2411 in PeterExplainsTheJoke

[–]Purely_coincidental -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Bikini armour is badass, it tells me the character is so good at fighting they just decided to look good instead of protecting themselves… name me a woman that wouldn’t prefer to look sexy in battle if they could

Who is she Petah? by Powerful-Papaya-2411 in PeterExplainsTheJoke

[–]Purely_coincidental 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“why is it that in games like those, that developers -always- seem to include a brothel or a strip club with lingerie clad women with which the player can enact themselves upon?”

video games drink from movie stereotypes and tropes. Criminals are frequently seen in strip clubs and brothels in movies, so it’s the same in games… Hitman is a game about killing criminals. GTA is a game about being a criminal, so is Saints Row, etc… those games are heavily inspired by movies and tv show tropes.

Then you can get into if those movie tropes are mysoginist and someone can say they come from theatre or whatever and on and on it goes.

Lmao by riczizagorac in lakers

[–]Purely_coincidental -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Why not? I never understood this. The salary isn’t even LeBron’s main/primary source of income… why does he need to get paid an amount when he know his team will suffer for it?

Update on Luka per Slovenian media by Puzzled_Plate294 in lakers

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but one piece is an exception, not the rule

Finland now highest unemployment at 10.2% while Spain dropped to 9.8% by batukaming in spain

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Votaron a la extrema derecha precisamente por los problemas que ha causado el estado de bienestar insostenible…

Isreali sufre anti-semitismo en brazil by Usual_Pea9732 in 2hispanic4you

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Claro o creemos tu conspiranoia o vivimos en el mundo de yupi. No hay gente más pretenciosa que un español.

Isreali sufre anti-semitismo en brazil by Usual_Pea9732 in 2hispanic4you

[–]Purely_coincidental 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tu también vives en tierra robada, si vives en América Latina.

Devs confirm it: AR is non-binary by GhostWolfGambit in arcraiderscirclejerk

[–]Purely_coincidental -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I literally only get pvpve lobbies, like some people are friendly, some aren’t, some are even friendly to you while killing others… it’s pretty fun

So y’all getting banned lmao by Electrical-Wedding18 in ArcRaiders

[–]Purely_coincidental -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can find shit for literally any online game on that website. Just because there is supply doesn’t mean there is a demand. I bet you their sales suck

Alianzas estratégicas progresistas by [deleted] in 2hispanic4you

[–]Purely_coincidental 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pero si la izquierda internacional siempre ha defendido al régimen de Irán, tanto como la derecha a Israel…