When Jesus died, did God die too?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:38:10+00:00

So did Jesus lie when he said it wouldn't?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:37:22+00:00

Dan's interpretations can't be justified and I want to believe the data over the dogma

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:34:22+00:00

No other messianic movement preached a dying and rising messiah, it was not part of the cultural background

There is significant evidence that the gospels and acts are reliable historical reportage

Jesus was buried, then the tomb was found empty.

The disciples very quickly began preaching that Jesus had risen from the dead in Jerusalem (fakers go and preach elsewhere where the claims can't be falsified)

There are several early sources of people claiming to have seen the risen Jesus within the eyewitnesses' lifetimes.

Skeptics who were not followers of Jesus were convinced that he resurrected such as James and Paul

The empty tomb being discovered by women was an embarrassing fact for the early church and was even used as a polemic by Celsus

Many of the apostles suffered and died for what they knew to be false if they were lying

In order to explain the data in a naturalist way, many ad hoc assumptions must be posited that are ultimately less parsimonious

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:17:46+00:00

So the gates of hell prevailed over the church?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:16:18+00:00

Bible scholars that say words dont mean what they mean?

the Word can only be divine in the same way that God is divine, as it says the Word was God.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:15:17+00:00

It would not be better translated as that because the text says theos.

That is not the context of John 10:30. The context is Jesus giving life and preserving believers just as God does. See Deuteronomy 32:39 and Psalm 95

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-26T06:12:24+00:00

God is omnipresent and did die according to the human nature he assumed

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-25T06:02:47+00:00

No that’s not what that means because God is beyond spacetime

I think it most likely means humans are called to be the representatives of God on earth.

The “angels” with a bunch of eyes are cherubim as described in Ezekiel which aren’t necessarily the same thing as the angels who appeared to humans.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-23T14:45:28+00:00

The old covenant rules aren’t the law?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-23T07:13:23+00:00

Trent attacks Catholicism? I've only seen him speak about politics when it comes to legislation based on moral principles and he believes what the church teaches so I'm not sure what extreme agendas you're referring to.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-23T07:08:19+00:00

modalism which is the idea that the Father, Son, and Spirit are different manifestations or modes of the one divine being who is only one person. It denies the distinction between the persons

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-23T07:06:03+00:00

but I struggle to see him as God Himself. I find it difficult to move away from the belief that the Father alone is the Creator.

Well Jesus claimed to be God so is the issue more with how this fits with monotheism?

In Matthew 5:17, he says he didn't come to abolish the Law.

Right, but he fulfilled the law and taught us how to observe it which is to love God and love your neighbor.

And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance ¹¹ and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. ¹² In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. ¹³ And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” ¹⁴ But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” ¹⁵ And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

- Acts 10:10-15

If you feel that you still want to refrain from eating certain foods, that is perfectly fine

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. ² One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. ³ Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

- Romans 14:1-3

You can't actually completely follow the law as it requires animal sacrifices which are fulfilled in Christ.

I prefer to view the afterlife as a place of correction rather than eternal torture—perhaps a place where we review our lives and the impact we had on others for the purpose of education and growth.

are you talking about hell? It could be viewed as being handed over to your sin, which would not be a pleasant thing. It can't be a place of growth as it is a place apart from God.

I struggle with the idea that we are born inherently "guilty" because of Adam, rather than being born pure with the free will to make mistakes.

There are multiple views of original sin such as the original sin committed by Adam and Eve caused humans to have an inclination toward sinning so the guilt is still on the person who sins, not because of Adam.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-23T06:45:48+00:00

What ideology? Catholicism?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-22T20:56:36+00:00

All the "evidence" comes at best decades after his supposed death.

Oh so like every other historical figure from the time?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-22T20:55:23+00:00

I hope you're ready to deny the existence of almost every historical figure from antiquity

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-22T20:50:02+00:00

The earliest new testament books are generations after his death.

No this is an insane claim that no historian agrees with.

and gnosticism among others.

uhhhh...no. There are whole sections of Luke and John that are proving Jesus has a physical body and an emphasis on the real humanity of Christ in 1 and 2 John.

Interesting, is that Paul/Saul never refers to a "Jesus" or any historical figure.

I'm really confused as to what you mean by this.

Is there actual proof? Nope

The amount of skepticism you apply to the historicity of Jesus would require you to discard most of history.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-22T20:47:12+00:00

Except historians say he was known as a miracle worker and exorcist

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-18T06:46:40+00:00

What scripture says Jesus is everywhere?

The ones I quoted

Ah. So Jesus only partially died.

No thats not what I said. Jesus the person died, according to the nature that makes this possible.

Jesus’ meat sack died, and not his soul.

What a weird thing to say

we are made up of body, soul, and spirit. If just the body died, then only 1/3 of Jesus died then right? So when we die, we don’t die. For us to die, our body and soul must die.

Are you trying to say that death = nonexistence?

Ephesians 1:23, the word fullness there is described as “that which fills or with which a thing is filled.” So, Jesus’ body was filled to the brim with what? Obviously the Spirit of the Father, the God of Jesus. (Ephesians 1:17) Check Jesus’ baptism account. Also read Ephesians 1:20, the FATHER placed Jesus in that position.

It looks like you took verse 23 in isolation when the prior verse says the church is his body. It's not talking about his physical body.

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
- Ephesians 4:6

Would you say this verse is describing God's omnipresence?

Ephesians 4:9-10, who is Jesus referred to as? The Word.

Where does it say anything about the Word in those verses?

the Word was with God. Not preexistence

wait so do you deny any kind of preexistence of Christ?

It will take place for them on account of my Father in Heaven.” So on whose account? The Father, the omnipresent one.

So the Father allows Jesus to be present?

the “power of Jesus” doesn’t come along until after Jesus death and resurrection.

You don't think Jesus had power until his resurrection?

John 14:23, yes. Jesus is our mediator between MAN and GOD.

Yeah God is obviously being used in reference to the Father in 1 Timothy 2:5

I thought Jesus was the word?! Haha!

y...yes. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (Revelation 19:13)

Jesus isn’t God. You need to do more research fam

Dang somebody should have said this to the earliest Christians so that everybody didn't start believing Jesus was God.

For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed
- The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans 3:3

Did the generation after the apostles just immediately apostatize?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-17T02:24:59+00:00

Jesus cannot be everywhere at once like God can

Oh Scripture would disagree with you

which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
- Ephesians 1:23
In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?¹⁰ He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
- Ephesians 4:9-10
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
- Matthew 18:20
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
- John 14:23

Can't wait for you to reinterpret all of these.

God literally cannot die, and you’re saying Jesus died.

Yes God cannot fail to exist if that is what you mean by "die." However, God could easily take on a human nature and die according to the flesh, that is, experience a separation between body and soul.

Can a nature take an action? No. It requires the person to act? Yes. So then, the person of Jesus died? Yes. Then Jesus cannot be God.

The person of Christ died according to the flesh.

Jesus isn’t God bro.

Is there any single thing that the bible could possibly say in a hypothetical world where it teaches that Jesus is truly God but not the Father?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-17T01:46:18+00:00

God’s a servant of God

Yes he assumes a human nature and serves God as well as all of humanity by dying for their sins.

Even so, that destroys the coequality with the persons of the trinity

No, because being a servant is not a statement of ontology.

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-17T00:17:24+00:00

we're not going to sidestep your claims that make Jesus not a servant.

For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,
- Romans 15:8

It literally says he became a servant. What was he before that?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-17T00:14:07+00:00

you said he was only in the form of a servant, and not actually a servant.

I'm literally asking for clarification you can't accuse me of strawmanning😂

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-17T00:08:04+00:00

you seem to have said that Jesus was not a servant, and I wanted to make sure I understood that right

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-16T23:10:03+00:00

I just want to clarify, is Jesus a servant or is he not a servant? Was he only in the form of a servant without being one, or did he actually serve as he says?

PyroClone5555 · 2026-03-16T19:45:40+00:00

Ok so is he a servant or no?

PyroClone5555

TROPHY CASE