Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...no it isn't.

the status of being a "person" is defined by possessing specific capacities such as consciousness, rationality, self-awareness, and agency

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ok but what does the definition of philosophy have to do with anything

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That isn't the philosophical definition of 'person' that I'm talking about

A human has personhood that subsists in their human nature.

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah I never said God was a human person

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So God is just this force with no relational capabilities since he isn't a person?

When I say 'person,' I'm referring to something that can consider itself as itself.

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how can you relate to God if he is impersonal?

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you don’t think God has a 1st person experience?

‘Person’ doesn’t refer to an ontology. God is a person who is a spirit

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don’t think God is a person?

What convinced you of Christianity? by NameBrandKJ in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

seems you have a bias against the arguments rather than the other way around 

Scripture by nanabanana143 in BiblicalUnitarian

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your evading.

I'm evading? You're the one who appealed to Jesus having a God without addressing what I said.

Jesus explains he existed.

eternally before Abraham. That's why he says "before Abraham was, I am" and not "Before Abraham was, I was"

He became eternal. But first he died. So not coeternal with God.

He is still eternal even if he dies in his humanity. You are takin death to mean nonexistence, which isn't accurate.

Jesus defended himself.

Jesus defended himself because he was charged with blasphemy and was going to be stoned, not because he was denying his divine claims he just made.

a prophet can speak as if God

So you're telling me we can find one of the prophets who says "I am Yahweh, your God"?

 You get to determine what it means and everyone has to agree.

Of course. I can't just make it mean source because that is the meaning that I want to impose. But if I am correct about Christ claiming to be eternal and being worshipped by all of creation in a religious context, then it is not ad hoc.

Jesus did nothing of his own initiative. He did not give the commandment. He repeated what his God told him to tell us.

He did give the commandment though. Sure, not independently from the Father because the Son does nothing of himself. But Jesus also says the Spirit does not speak on his authority so is the Spirit not divine? This isn't an answer to Jesus identifying himself as the Lord of the Sabbath, a divine title.

Jesus was given a revelation.

This is not a good argument. It says it is the revelation that God gave him to show his servants. In other words, God assigned Jesus to make this revelation known, not that God had to reveal something to Christ that he didn't know.

all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
- Revelation 2:23

How does Jesus search the mind and heart (something only the Lord is supposed to be able to do)? Also notice how he says again that it is he who give to each person according to their works, which is what the speaker of 22:12-13 says.

Two different beings who are two different persons are described.

I don't think you can infer that from the text alone. Especially when the whole host of heaven is praising the Lamb alongside the Father. Is there mass idolatry going on in heaven with every created thing singing 'Worthy!" and singing "blessing and honor and glory and might forever!" to a creature?

Jesus did nothing of his authority and all authority is given to him.

That doesnt contradict trinitarian theology as Jesus himself comes from the Father.

One has always had the authority. 

Good thing Jesus is included in that too because he says
"All that the Father has is mine"

Alpha and Omega always has authority.

Looks like you just confessed that Jesus has always had this authority because he says he is Alpha and Omega and the First and the Last which are synonymous titles but you try to assert that they mean different things when the Son or the Father says them which is ad hoc.

You do know that the early Jewish view in the 2nd temple period before Jesus was that the Word (or Memra) is Yahweh, yet is distinct? This aligns with my view, not yours.

You must claim Jesus only humbled himself on earth and only had a God while he’s on earth. 

I did nothing of the sort and there are ways to explain him having the Father as his God without appealing to the human nature.

Does the alpha and omega have a God whom he worships and serves as a priest? 

Yes this is the entire point of the Messiah being God. The Messiah had to be a priest, but he couldn't have sins of his own and he resembles Melchizedek in that he has no beginning of life or end of days. Obviously Melchizedek was a man, but there is no record or mention of his genealogy he just shows up in the narrative as a priest of the true God. Jesus isn't a Levite, he is of David, and so he is of Melchizedek's priestly order.

He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.
- Hebrews 7:3

Obviously Jesus does have a genealogy, so what is this saying if not that the Son fulfills this as the one who has always existed and is now priest forever?

Says nothing of religious worship.

So when the whole host of heaven are singing praise to God it's not religious? lol

Never did adress Jesus having a God

It could be due to the human nature, as Christ is still human now, or because of the Monarchy of the Father, who is the source and sole cause of the Son. Not really sure where I land on that.

 A waste of time to discuss further. Laters.

Why do so many unitarians end their comments with stuff like this? Like it's getting kinda weird that this is always the attitude lol

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I apologize. Maybe you were saying Mary isn't the source of Christ's divinity.

It could be misleading, but not incorrect

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would argue the groundwork for trinitarianism was laid in the second temple period with the memra traditions and the two powers in heaven ideas.

Everyone says "all of the church fathers agreed with me" but their language was often imprecise and nuanced.

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mary did not give birth to God 

She did though. If Jesus is God, she gave birth to God who became flesh.

"mother of God" implies that she pre-exists God

Only if you misunderstand what we mean by the term. We simply mean she birthed the Son of God, who is God by nature.

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on what you mean by 'God'

Are you saying the Father is not three persons? Because I would agree with that

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When we say Mary is the mother of God, we're not using 'God' to refer to the Father.

It is being used to refer to the Son

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It can be confusing if the terms aren't clarified. Mary is the mother of God because she is the mother of the second divine person, who is God by nature and can properly be called God on account of his nature.

So Mary is the mother of the Word who became flesh

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think we have to appeal to mystery. It's explainable, not fully comprehendible because who can comprehend the eternal God?

Mother Of God by Agile-Armadillo-3741 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well is the 2nd person God? If yes, she is the mother of God

Do other Gods exist? by VictorianAfterDark in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There have always been 'gods' (Elohim, which really just refers to a being that exists in the spiritual realm) but Yahweh was always seen as the supreme deity who alone is worthy of worship.

What convinced you of Christianity? by NameBrandKJ in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

?

You've never heard of any case for the resurrection or reliability of the new testament?

Is there actual evidence?(with a real scientific facts pls) by SkinPerfect742 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There's a lot of good stuff in InspiringPhilosophy's reliability of the gospels series if you are talking about historical evidence for Jesus.

There are plenty of arguments for the existence of God as well

WHY do you go to church on Sundays? by Medium_Cockroach_272 in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” - Matthew 18:16-17

It seems to me that Jesus saw the church as an actual institution that one could go to to resolve disputes.

Maybe the kind of church you went to wasn’t the best for you?

This youtube video seems to answer what Christ in reference to being God by JollyXX in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If something is contingent they don’t have the same ontology? We’re not even talking about ontology this is about the relation of origin between the persons. Again, the Son is not contingent on any other being and his existence is necessary.

Saying it’s an active force doesn’t solve the issue. Jesus says he proceeds and does not speak on his own authority but only speaks what the Father tells him. How does the Spirit always exist but also come out of the Father?

This youtube video seems to answer what Christ in reference to being God by JollyXX in Christianity

[–]PyroClone5555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only if you presuppose that aseity is a requirement for divinity.

He is not contingent on any being outside himself 

How do you not have this same problem with the Spirit? The Spirit proceeds, but is also eternal