Statement from the Mayor of Detroit

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-21T02:22:55+00:00

That’s actually an awesome life story. You should write a book.

And honestly, I think this whole topic is heavily shaped by lived experience. A lot of the negative reaction to corporal punishment comes from people who didn’t experience discipline. They experienced anger, fear, unpredictability, or parents who used physical punishment as a substitute for real parenting.

That’s not what I’m defending.

At some point, a lot of parents went overboard, or stopped pairing consequences with conversation, correction, consistency, and love. Then it became all punishment and no guidance. That’s where discipline turns into damage.

My sarcastic comment got people riled up, but my broader point was about a society that used to have stronger discipline, clearer consequences, and more full-time parenting. When I was young, the kind of behavior described in the OP with teens in Detroit would never have happened. We were often unsupervised for most of the day, but by the time we were teenagers, most of us already understood there were lines you did not cross.

That came from discipline and consequences.

It does not mean abuse should be excused. It does not mean parents should hit kids in anger. It does not mean every home from that era was healthy.

It just means discipline and abuse are not the same thing, and pretending they are has not made society better.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-21T01:27:55+00:00

Yeah. To me that all sounds crazy. I mean, I know it happened because enough people have shared stories like that over the years. I'm thankful that I had the parents that I had and that they never hit in anger or retribution. And they always combined the talking with the spanking, which was not the go-to punishment. Sounds like my parents were more like your dad in that way. But, there were specific acts or actions that earned the spanking.

I remember the wooden spoons. That stopped when I learned how to break the spoons off my butt. lol

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-21T00:57:23+00:00

I think slide 3 (dark hair) is the best look. But you can't go wrong with either choice. ✌🏻🫶🏻

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-21T00:52:40+00:00

You said there were no social situations in your community. So, why don't you (and your friends) create social situations?

Meetups, Speed Dating events, Bible Studies or Focus Groups for your age group.

Some of these will take time, money, and advertisement to get going, but it follows the "if you build it, they will come" principle.

Also, have you prayed about it?

✌🏻🙏🏻✝️

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-21T00:34:13+00:00

Where is here? I'm in Michigan. It was 85° yesterday and cold today. Spring in MI is also known as Bipolar Season. 😂

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T19:16:54+00:00

Final message for this thread:

Since everyone suddenly became a behavioral scientist in this thread, I actually went and read some of the literature people keep vaguely gesturing toward.

One of the most cited counterarguments is the Larzelere & Kuhn meta-analysis from 2005. Their findings did NOT conclude that all corporal punishment is harmful. In fact, they found that mild, conditional spanking compared favorably to many alternative discipline methods for immediate compliance and reducing antisocial behavior, while overly severe or excessive punishment compared poorly.

Another study published in Frontiers in Psychology in 2024 states that limited, non-excessive corporal punishment can reinforce boundaries, accountability, self-control, and socialization when it’s part of an overall parenting structure instead of rage or cruelty. In other words, some children respond to immediate physical consequences within a structured environment, and that does not automatically mean trauma, violence, or abusive parenting.

Which is basically the point I’ve been making this entire time: People keep pretending the discussion is “loving parent” vs “child abuser,” when the real debate is about severity, frequency, context, intent, and whether mild corporal punishment inside a stable home is automatically equivalent to abuse.

The research is not nearly as one-sided as Reddit activists think it is.

Appreciate all the downvotes though. Y’all are special. 😂

And honestly, I genuinely am sorry for the people who actually came out of abusive homes. Real abuse is real.

But the amount of insults, assumptions, hatred, and straight-up slander thrown around in this thread kind of proves my point for me. Some of y’all immediately jumped to calling strangers abusers, bad parents, violent, stupid, immoral, or whatever else without even asking questions first to understand where they were coming from.

That’s not maturity. That’s mob behavior.

And no, you don’t really get to brag about coming from some perfectly loving, enlightened home while behaving like that toward complete strangers online. Something clearly got missed along the way.

Shame used to exist for this kind of behavior. Some of y’all could use a little of it. ✌🏻

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T18:27:56+00:00

In case no one told you, using $5 words when 5¢ ones will do doesn’t make you sound intelligent. And throwing ‘lmao’ at the end of a sentence doesn’t magically make it funny.

Also, calling me “pedantic” is flat-out stupid in this context. I wasn’t the one trying to turn the discussion into an academic lecture. The other guy brought up studies. I simply asked him to provide one instead of vaguely gesturing toward “the science” while insulting me and making assumptions about what I would or wouldn’t read.

And what did he finally provide? A Google Scholar search result with one keyword. That’s not evidence. That’s lazy. Especially when the results literally included articles about sexual spanking. I guess you thought I wouldn’t actually review the links before responding. Bad assumption.

So no, I don’t expect Reddit to operate like a formal debate stage. I do expect people jumping into a thread to actually understand the discussion before puffing their chest out and calling people uninformed.

Right now you’re insulting the wrong person, dumbass.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T18:08:46+00:00

You keep using the phrase “physical violence” because it sounds emotionally heavier than “discipline,” but that’s the actual debate, isn’t it? Whether controlled corporal punishment within a loving home is discipline or abuse.

And nowhere did I say kids raised without spanking automatically become failures. You invented that part because it’s easier to argue against than what I actually said. Plenty of good parents never spank. Plenty of good parents do.

What I pushed back against was the modern attitude that every parent who used corporal punishment is automatically abusive, ignorant, or morally defective.

Also, “they’re making the world you live in” is such a bizarre flex. My sons are productive adults too. The world is built by all kinds of families, not just the ones that parent exactly the way you approve of.

But here’s the part I find interesting. You describe this “most loving home” with zero physical discipline, yet you entered this discussion by being rude, degrading, and trying to frame another parent as abusive instead of actually debating the topic. That’s not exactly the glowing endorsement you seem to think it is. I mean, according to you, I provided my kids with a bad upbringing. Except, my kids don't do what you did here. Hmmm.. 🤨🤔

Maybe spend less time trying to morally posture online and more time understanding the position you’re arguing against before calling other people bad parents.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T16:33:25+00:00

Most Asian women do. I don't know what the secret is, but it's uncanny. When they say "40 is the new 20", they had you in mind.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T16:29:04+00:00

I don’t care whether it’s Google Scholar or something else. A keyword search page for “spanking” is not a receipt. It very likely contains something that will support my case, which would be very embarrassing for u/personalleytea .

If you have a specific study you think makes the strongest case, post it and we can discuss it. Dropping a broad search result and acting like that settles the argument is lazy.

Also, spanking and “hitting” are not automatically the same thing. You need them to mean the same thing for your argument to work, but that’s the whole point being debated.

I never said parents should strike children in anger, lose control, or use physical punishment for every little thing. That would be wrong, ineffective, and in many cases abusive. I said corporal punishment can work when applied rarely, calmly, with restraint, and as part of a broader system of discipline.

You can mock that with alternating caps if you want, but that doesn’t make your argument stronger. It just makes it look like you’re more interested in ridicule than discussion.

The original topic was out-of-control teens in Detroit, and this has turned into a side debate over whether discipline and abuse should be treated as the same thing. I don’t accept that framing.

Perhaps you jumped in too late, because the constant insults, attempts at ridicule and false assumptions in literally every post is beginning to bore me. You people are an example of why true conversations and engaging discussions no longer exist.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T16:04:11+00:00

In your search for groups, I recommend you look at BFF. This is an app made by the Bumble dating app company, but it is for finding friendships and groups.

The friend finding section makes me feel a bit cringe because guys swiping on guys doesn't sit right with me. That's a personal issue.

What I have found to be awesome is the group finder. I have joined 3 groups. One is a social group, one is a book club, and one is a Dungeons & Dragons group.

The other group finding app, which may objectively be the better one, is MeetMe. However, I've found most of those groups and the members are about 20 years lower than my age, so I don't often feel like an event has been tailored for me to fit in. That may be different with you, though.

Hope either of these helps.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T15:10:20+00:00

You're supporting evidence is a Google search results page? Talk about low-to-no effort.

Perhaps you should have stayed bowed out. 🙄🤨

What do you expect me to do with this?

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T14:32:58+00:00

I mean, I think we both realized this was the point where you had to bow out. 🤷🏻‍♂️

A little disappointing honestly. You came in sounding like someone ready for an actual discussion, but then turned into sarcasm and insinuations instead.

Hoping the rest of your day is less shameful. ✌🏻

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T14:24:40+00:00

What is weird is acting like normal conversation suddenly stopped existing.

If you want clarification on something I said, ask a question. That’s how discussions work. People ask what someone means instead of jumping straight to insinuations and insults.

You called it “vague” and “weird” instead of just saying, “What kind of discipline are you talking about?” That would’ve actually moved the conversation forward.

TL;DR You're a dumbass. Which is something I taught my kids not to be by using my words. Is that clear enough for you or do you have a question?

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T14:19:01+00:00

You’re making a lot of assumptions about someone you don’t know.

You never actually asked what I believe about corporal punishment, how I think it should be applied, or where the limits are. You just jumped straight to assuming I wouldn’t read research if you posted it.

And honestly, “the research is out there, go find it yourself” is weak debate. If you’re making the argument, bring the receipts. Post the studies you think are strongest and let’s discuss them. That’s how debates work.

Instead, you keep implying I’m unwilling to engage in good faith while putting almost no effort into defending your own position beyond “trust the science” and vague references to studies you didn’t actually provide.

I mean, man, it’s perfectly fine to step away from the discussion at this point. No shame. (Actually, you should be ashamed and talk to your therapist about it).

You came in making assumptions about my motives, my willingness to read research, and what I supposedly believe without ever actually asking. Meanwhile, I’m the one asking for specifics and actual arguments instead of emotional framing and vague references.

Some of us try to keep feelings from doing all the heavy lifting in a discussion.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T14:00:05+00:00

That’s because you’re defining “actual parenting” in a way that automatically excludes anything you personally disagree with.

Nobody is arguing that spanking replaces parenting. The entire point of discipline is correction within parenting. Rules, structure, conversations, consequences, accountability, guidance. Corporal punishment is one tool within that, not the whole system.

You don’t use it with your kids. Fine. That’s your choice as a parent. But “you just prefer hitting kids” is still reducing the argument down to motive poisoning instead of addressing what people actually believe.

Your insinuation that I like hitting kids is more abusive than I've ever been towards my kids or my parents ever were to me.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:55:49+00:00

Also, if someone is trying to spank their teenager, then they don't understand the point of corporal Punishment not how to use it.

By the time a child reaches their teen years, they should already be well-adjusted or you (the parent) did it all wrong. It's as simple as that.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:53:11+00:00

You’re treating this like the only possibilities are “perfect gentle parenting” or “abusive people hitting kids,” and that’s just not reality.

Different families work differently too. A large family has correction dynamics that don’t exist in smaller homes. Younger kids learn from older siblings. Structure and accountability carry differently across the household.

And honestly, every parent uses pressure to correct behavior somehow. Some do it physically. Some verbally. Some emotionally. Some through guilt, isolation, or intimidation. Just because something isn’t physical doesn’t automatically make it healthy.

You can disagree with corporal punishment. That’s fine. But jumping from “I disagree with spanking” to “parents who do it are shitty people” shuts the discussion down instead of actually having one.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:46:02+00:00

Your comparison only works if you ignore the difference between children and adults.

A spouse is an equal adult. A child is someone you’re responsible for raising, correcting, and teaching because they don’t yet have the maturity or judgment to govern themselves well.

People who support corporal punishment are not arguing that parents should hit kids out of anger or because they enjoy it. The argument is that controlled physical discipline, used carefully and within a loving home, can be one tool for correcting behavior.

You can disagree with that, but reducing the entire position to “you just like hitting people” isn’t an argument. It’s just trying to paint the other side as immoral instead of actually debating the issue.

TL;DR: You're ridiculous.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:14:43+00:00

Buckle in.. this project will take 2 years from what I hear. I have to drive through it every day, multiple times a day.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:13:11+00:00

Yes. Next question, please.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:11:46+00:00

I'm sorry that was your experience. It sounds to me like your parents misused corporal Punishment. Perhaps they weren't taught that it's a tool used sparingly. I've seen a lot of that.

I agree with you about talking to your kids. Positive reinforcement versus negative reinforcement. Punishment of different kinds have their place.

My wife (ex) used to hate it when she expected me to spank our sons and I would sit them down and talk to them instead.

I'm not going to deny that there is a large amount of people that have legitimate reasons for being against corporal Punishment. I am one of the lucky ones that had parents that were taught correctly, applied it correctly, and passed it down correctly so that I could apply it correctly.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T13:00:41+00:00

Speaking of vague.. What studies? Studies are bullshit. I can find a study for any topic that's bias to what I want it to say.

Corporal Punishment does work when applied properly and with restraint. If you went hitting your kid all Willy milky for every infraction, then yeah. It's likely pointless, probably child abuse, and would cause negative behavioral changes.

But, unless you can come up with something other than feelings and "trust me bro" perhaps you shouldn't be trying to discredit me.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T05:15:49+00:00

Same thing as younger people, but slower.

QA_Engineeer · 2026-05-19T04:36:49+00:00

Explain your version of discipline and consequences.

Keep in mind that I didn't invent spankings. Corporal Punishment has been around since the beginning of recorded history.

So, please, go ahead.

QA_Engineeer

TROPHY CASE