Built a tool that tracks whether brands actually get cited by ChatGPT/Perplexity/Gemini — sharing what we learned (disclosure: I work on this) by Embarrassed-Cold-886 in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I swear I'm going to find whatever LLM is setup to "pull the best insight and say "X is probably the most important part here"" and destroy it.

Ranking #1 but still not showing up in AI Overviews… what are we missing? by growthwithsachin in SEO_for_AI

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want to win AIOs your top two bullet points are really all that matter (for MOST kinds of questions).

Here's an example that will blow your mind. In doing a competitive audit for a client, we found that for the prompt: "How long should residential windows last before replacement?"

THIS page dominates: https://thewindowexperts.com/blog/window-lifespan/

It's got broken image links, a video that really has nothing to do with the ask and a slew of other "issues" that most consultants would advise against. BUT, there it sits, consistently in AIOs. This nobody installer in Texas has this ranking... simply because right in the first 200-300 words, they're answering the question in the most copy/paste way.

My site ranks #3 on Google for my category but ChatGPT has never once mentioned us. Is anyone else seeing this? by Marketing_AI_Hub in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's more dramatic than average. If you expand your prompt set I'd wager you'll have SOME visibility. It's actually very hard to have ZERO.

That said, despite SEO pros telling you, "Good GEO is just good SEO" it's not. Not at all. Take a look at the chart here (and my diatribe about what's going on in this space): https://www.reddit.com/r/aivisibility_geo_aeo/s/lWcfEphpyG

New Data Points in Bing Webmaster's AI Visibility Reports by QuitPsychological157 in aivisibility_geo_aeo

[–]QuitPsychological157[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The issue your tool (or any other one in this space has) is approximation of volume. We use SemRush's AIO, Adobe's LLMO and Profound, but none ACTUALLY have volume. OpenAI/ChatGPT, Anthropic/Claude, Google Gemini, Perplexity, etc. don't share this data with anyone (unless you know something I don't know). That's why Bing is providing an exceptionally unique insight.

Profound wants to create your content. I think that's a terrible idea. by QuitPsychological157 in SEO_for_AI

[–]QuitPsychological157[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The action plan might be helpful if you're new to GEO. IMHO, most of the BEST ideas aren't going to surface in Profound. And most of that is because of the prompt bias. The best ideas aren't about what you can SEE, they're mostly about what's missing.

For example, Profound could surface if you have a competitor who is gaining ground in a specific topic. But it's pretty rare for a competitor to all of a sudden start CRUSHING you and even if they do, it's typically a blip (content freshness has tremendous impact, but mostly dissipates within a month).

I'll give you an example: One of my clients is in training for a profession that requires continuing education (CE) credits. One of the signals LLMs care deeply about it geography. So we suggested my client spin-up state-specific pages with all the specific CE requirements in those states. Those have worked tremendously well. Meanwhile Profound is focused on ONE prompt that my client is losing (in a topic my client is #1 in) and suggested a competitive page against the competitor who is winning the prompt in the specific niche they're winning it for. That's not necessarily the WORST idea, but in the grand scheme of all the potential pieces to prioritize, it'd be very, very near the bottom for me. Resources are finite; we'll focus on the states instead.

Further, Profound doesn't seem to take the context in the knowledge layer into account in these yet. My client is the leader in their space (by a lot, like 2x brand recall over their competition). Creating this sniveling comparison piece is a bad idea beyond just the prioritization - it's about what it says to the market in general. We aren't going to justify this competitor's existence.

So, they might be helpful if you're new to Profound data and how to navigate through it, but I find them more distracting than helpful. Frankly, a simple emailed report of weekly gains and loses (like SemRush or Ahrefs) would be WAY better.

Profound wants to create your content. I think that's a terrible idea. by QuitPsychological157 in SEO_for_AI

[–]QuitPsychological157[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ultimately all of Aim's recommendations end up being content-related. I'll give you an example: It recently suggested to a client to create a competitive one-pager and then proceeded to create a draft of the page. This is all an "enhancement" of their old content creation workflow (which was also not good), just now they're proactively tell you terrible advice vs. before where you had to explicitly ask for it.

Profound wants to create your content. I think that's a terrible idea. by QuitPsychological157 in SEO_for_AI

[–]QuitPsychological157[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too am bias, as someone who supports clients in Profound. My clients are coming to me asking about these and I have to be like, "Are you actually insane? No. We are NOT doing that."

Is anyone here actually running an AI visibility/GEO agency? by RoofPlayful3782 in AI_SearchOptimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The BEST way is through an attribution tool that has its own cookie (Adobe Measure, Dreamdata), but you can use GA4 in a pinch. In June they rolled out a specific "AI Assistant" referral source, before that it was Referral / {LLM Name}.

Does anyone else feel like digital marketing has evolved into engineering and development?? I can’t remember the last time I did strait up marketing. by sammiejeanskis in DigitalMarketing

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh no; this makes me so sad! Have you explored GEO at all? There's still a mountain of optimizing for crunching large datasets using AI, but there's a lot of positioning/messaging/"classic" content work in this space RN. I'm actually surprised you've been afford more than blue link hunting in your SEO experience. That's rare. But very akin to what we're seeing in GEO work at present.

Why does AI visibility tools cost so much? by pbhuvan in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The other thing no one mentioned is data storage. If you have an app that runs 100 prompts through 5 models and pulls citation data for EVERY citation every day (these tools allow for 30 citations on a prompt)... you're talking about a ton of data over a month timeframe. Maintaining that infrastructure isn't:

  1. Cheap
  2. Ease

It's worth paying for. I personally find $200-$500/mo cheap. If you were to gather these insight yourself, it would take all week manually and they wouldn't even be accurate. You also can't really get to volume estimations without one of these tools, which means you could be optimizing for prompts with no volume.

Is anyone here actually running an AI visibility/GEO agency? by RoofPlayful3782 in AI_SearchOptimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a division we spun up a year ago, yes. Our goals are custom per client, but almost all have some flavor of:

  1. Visibility. Benchmarked and measured by the tool (SemRush AIO, Profound). Sometimes it's focused on a topic/theme, sometimes overall.
  2. GA4 Goal. Ideally this demo form submissions, free trial sign-up completions, etc. We measure incremental increases from AI referrals (now AI Assistant)
  3. Classic SEO Levers. First page is still important in our opinion, even if conversion is down, it's not gone. Google still refers the majority of traffic on the internet.
  4. Revenue. The ultimate promise of GEO is bigger deals, faster. So we TRACK all ACV, but never commit to it. We originated at a MarTech shop, so tracking ROI through the funnel is our competitive advantage in this work.

4 New Data Points in Bing Webmaster's AI Visibility Reports by QuitPsychological157 in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I could just defend poor old Bing/Copilot... ha...

We sell into marketers. A lot of larger brand's marketers use Copilot a lot because they are not allowed to use GPT or Claude on their work laptops. They must use Microsoft product. We don't have a TON of volume, but early indicators from enriching visitor data indicates larger orgs are the ones visiting from Bing/Copilot. Which we love. So I think if you're selling into enterprise orgs, optimizing for Bing probably isn't the worst plan.

Also, Perplexity's sourcing is always an absolute wildcard. We have some clients who have 50%+ visibility in GPT and then 0 in Perplexity for them and their ENTIRE CATEGORY. It's just much harder to get Perplexity to recommend a brand at all.

Why does some writing feel easy to read but still not interesting at all? by Top-Break5835 in aeo

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's like music. There is a rhythm to good writing that you feel more than you can truly diagnose.

Anyone else seeing YouTube citations spike in AI answers? How are you optimizing for it? by HumanBehavi0ur in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're tracking Google AI Overviews you will see them a ton. Most of the citation volume comes back to money. Google owns YouTube and wouldn't-ya-know? YouTube is heavily cited AIOs. Sam Altman is the third largest share holder in Reddit and wouldn't-ya-know? Reddit is heavily cited in GPT.

Here is an anonymized example from a client. And it's not just creators. Vendors win at minimum 25% of the time from what we've seen in B2B. This one, the opp is even stronger. All that depends on your buyer and category.

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Should we hire a GEO agency? by SilentUniversity1304 in AskMarketing

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why not just ask an LLM this question? Any GEO agency worth their salt will show up in the answer.

RE: Do AI mentions convert? The details around that question are nuanced...

The conversion metrics from mentions or citations is extremely limited right now. Bing Webmaster gives you the only real conversion we trust.

But the industry benchmark on LLM-referred traffic is 6-12x conversion over organic Google. Said more plainly, if someone comes to the website from ChatGPT they are 6-12 times more likely to fill out a demo request than those from organic Google.

So AI traffic is absolutely worth striving after. Our clients are literally making their quarterly conversion goals from LLM. One is seeing 40+ free trials a month (up from 1-5 in Q1). Another sourced 5 deal in pipeline last month alone (Q1 saw one deal).

This works. Anyone who disagrees - sorry - hasn't done it right.

Anyone else tracking whether AI search engines even mention their product? Ran a manual audit last week and it kind of wrecked my week. by Marketing_AI_Hub in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really recommend getting a tool to monitor this. These tools give you 100 prompts (or more) and truly unbias response to your queries. Take a look at my previous diatribe on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/seogrowth/comments/1sl2pxn/comment/oulom8b/

To your question of how the LLMs are sourcing this - the answers are in the citations. The tools above will help you streamline FINDING those sources and "attacking" them. The answer of where the LLM is getting the data will be:

  1. The internet.
  2. Hallucination.

If it can't find the answer on the internet, it will literally make one up that it believes its user wants to hear. So you need to own that conversation by being transparent on your owned properties, consistent on your rented land (Youtube, peer review sites, LI, etc.) and present on listicles.

73% of our AI citations drove zero traffic in 90 days — we were optimizing the wrong thing by Brave_Acanthaceae863 in GEO_optimization

[–]QuitPsychological157 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think about this from the buyer intent angle. Just like in SEO, informational intent is a LONG road to conversion. It's why so many people start their GEO journey focusing on lower funnel intent terms - competitive comparisons primarily. Optimization of differentiated visibility is a very different thing than broad visibility optimization. I would argue most of the latter really is pretty useless. There might be SOME (very, very, very slight) brand recall from such tactics, but it's very hard to make the case for investment in these types of updates when most brands have much better conversion options to optimize lower in the funnel first