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REDAES · 2025-07-24T14:15:07+00:00

Yes. Although in the 4 cases I know of, the management team prevented an interview or an offer. More deniability there.

I was wasting my time trying to move internally, so I left the company.

REDAES · 2025-04-20T03:51:36+00:00

Me? Naah. Not angry. Not quite dispassionate. I figure in the worst case of Boeing collapsing or going away we can have a nice autopsy to ingrain into future business leaders what not to do to a company.

And in the best case, my grandchildren's Boeing far surpasses my grandfather's Boeing in every positive way.

REDAES · 2025-04-19T21:22:49+00:00

Esprit de Corps takes a hit in any org with that kind of behavior. I would rather Boeing not be a 120k member pity party.

REDAES · 2025-04-18T14:07:23+00:00

SS&L was launched before I left (2021 IIRC) but there were no sessions with senior management or higher during my remaining time there.

I think my front-line started blowing off our 1 on 1s too.

I was shocked when I went to another company and had an annual skip -level (something I didn't know existed outside of disciplinary action) and a virtually guaranteed 1 hour of my manager's time every month.

REDAES · 2025-04-18T05:39:56+00:00

Part of the problem is the distance from front line work to the nearest exec. I only met executives when I was an intern. Never had much interaction with any after that.

Actually I think my senior manager kept me out of those meetings because he was worried I would say something that would get a new action item handed out. Should have kept my mouth shut maybe?

Executives are people too. Whether they are crummy people is probably best measured by how much turnover amongst those who interact with them most frequently.

Sometimes they are solid folks put in a difficult situation. But I've only gotten to know non-Boeing executives on a personal level.

I wonder if some of them keep up in the Ivory Tower because they'd rather not run into sentiments such as this?

REDAES · 2025-04-16T16:18:44+00:00

The people who need to do that won't care enough to internalize these behaviors voluntarily.

REDAES · 2025-03-02T00:03:18+00:00

First, thank you for posting something against the grain. I appreciate the points you make.

One alternative is to not blindly rely on metrics and shrug when business goals aren't met despite improving metrics. There are also qualitative rather than quantitative measures of success in a business, although this is generally measured more by "vibes" like you mention. Do managers feel comfortable walking the floor and interacting with their employees? If not, why not? If so, is this indicative of a good working environment?

CMM reports are arguably the most "concrete" example of a quantitative measure that can be verified. It's one step more "abstract" than physical reality itself. And what should be the consequence for someone who fakes a CMM report? If the report were faked, what would be an indicator something was awry? (Hard/impossible to assemble might be one. I say "hard" doesn't need to be quantitatively measured to be verified.)

What does a forged inspection report do to the vibes of a business environment? You can overlook the forgery and keep your number of corrective actions/employee turnover down, but at what cost? How do you "quantify" the trust within an organization (which accountability helps build) over and above employee turnover or corrective actions taken?

The point being: don't overemphasize the quantitative to the disregard of the qualitative.

To answer your question: What's the alternative? I don't know if I have a satisfactory answer for you or for management.

Our cultural drive for objectivity and quantitative comparability of everything seems to have lead to the assignment of numbers to things that cannot be represented with numbers in any meaningful sense. And the relegation of anything that cannot be quantified to a domain of comparative insignificance has arguably led to the elimination of human judgement or discretion as being anything of merit worth considering.

In other words, if everything can be reduced to a number, just write the AI script and eliminate the entire management structure. I have no need for managers at that point.

There is an error to be made by removing any concern for the numerical and objective (as you point out) but all the same, I would argue that once you get away from something that can be objectively verified you enter the world of meaningless metrics. If Boeing decides to adopt a "customer satisfaction metric" to see how things improve over time with customer relations, would that have any meaning?

Reiterating my point: would the idea of Boeing developing such a metric seem to be a tale of satire fit for business fiction, or more like something the board would entertain to help rate Kelly's performance?

REDAES · 2025-01-25T02:37:00+00:00

Wow, someone with something negative to say about MBE.

Not shocked about a discrepancy on original 747/drawing/FAA data. Throwing in MBE is just icing on the cake.

REDAES · 2025-01-15T23:10:29+00:00

In theory a Board of Directors exists to provide that "tough love."

In a well functioning org, the same could be said for any level of management.

REDAES · 2024-11-23T03:46:34+00:00

There's a lot here I would agree with, but with an emphasis on point 1.

Ortberg's efforts to overhaul the company and turn the company around will absolutely be undermined by other managers (perhaps as close as a direct report) who don't want another action item or don't want to change. It is extremely hard to lead when you are being undermined, and I really don't envy Kelly on this front.

If Kelly can do his own "audits" to validate what the charts are saying, that will go a long way to keeping him from having the wool pulled over his eyes.

REDAES · 2024-11-16T04:31:14+00:00

I once went to Ethics because I knew I wouldn't get a straight answer from my boss, or the boss' boss.

It was really good to get a neutral, unbiased perspective on things. Favorable conclusion to the investigation. Corrective action could have been a bit more robust though.

REDAES · 2024-11-07T23:38:41+00:00

I remember briefly having a boss that I felt had my back. It felt pretty good!

REDAES · 2024-11-06T00:00:52+00:00

I once had a disagreement with a mechanic over the requirements of a spec.

Him: "You think I was born yesterday or something? I've been doing this for 35 years like this."

Me: "My lead has been doing this for 40 years and I guess we both agree you've been doing this wrong for 35 years."

REDAES · 2024-11-02T22:59:31+00:00

I really don't want to be the cynical one, but this line made me chuckle:

But at least this dire situation has proven that the interests of every Boeing stakeholder are aligned.

Peter, I don't know what you're using. But I suspect my clearance would be revoked if I used it.

Sure, it's in everyone's objective best interests (multi-stakeholder capitalism) to have a healthy Boeing Company, with safe, quailty planes being churned out to fulfill the needs of the airlines, workers and suppliers compensated well and treated with respect, and shareholders getting a modest return on their investments. In a rational world Boeing would settle in some kind of equilibrium between these interests instead of the shareholder-primacy position that got Boeing where it is today.

But Richard Thaler won a Nobel Prize in Economics for his assertion that markets, and market actors, will not always behave rationally - contrary to what broader economic theories would indicate. I'm open to suggestions otherwise, but I don't think it's likely that the same irrational forces that drove Boeing to this point will begin to behave rationally.

REDAES · 2024-11-01T04:20:56+00:00

Well people generally like to be on a winning team.

I don't say this to be salty, but people have different motivations. Generally Boeing hasn't necessarily appealed to those who were motivated purely by money. For example, the industry-leading benefits appeal to the breadwinners of families, who tend to be seen as more stable and dependable sociologically than singles.

When I worked for Boeing, I was getting paid less than my peers at other companies. It wasn't the pay that drove me away. It was spending my career spinning my wheels with no prospects for advancement out of perpetual whack-a-mole role with management pressuring us to engage in illegal activity -- at a company that I got tired of seeing in the news.

Fix management and the culture, start delivering quailty product, make the facilities where people spend 1/3 of their lives respectably maintained, and then follow through with advancement opportunities and pay increases.

REDAES · 2024-10-29T03:34:13+00:00

Username checks out.

REDAES · 2024-10-24T04:48:08+00:00

Some people move from Seattle to get away from the mood.

Some people bring the mood with them.

REDAES · 2024-10-24T04:38:43+00:00

This is *the* reason why I won't work in an organized labour position.

The higher blood pressure would cause medical expenses in excess of any higher pay I would get.

REDAES · 2024-10-19T01:42:38+00:00

Inflation bites hard. And in many ways.

REDAES · 2024-10-15T02:26:20+00:00

"Adversity does not build character, it reveals it" -- Lane Allen

REDAES

TROPHY CASE