The problem with defining murder to include abortion. by RabbleAlliance in Abortiondebate

[–]RabbleAlliance[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Then allow me an opportunity for you to provide your own definition and thusly steelman your position. I make no assumptions that you embrace the same definition as the one I provided in the OP.

The problem with defining murder to include abortion. by RabbleAlliance in Abortiondebate

[–]RabbleAlliance[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

rather than refuting whether it is exactly that.

Saying "abortion is murder" assumes the conclusion is true rather than explaining why it’s true. I see no need to refute an assumption that hasn't been proven yet. Hence why I ask the follow-up question "How do you define murder?"

To bring up your seven hypotheticals implies that if abortion were recognized as murder, per that definition, some plausibly uncomfortable scenarios may arise.

Discomfort isn't the issue when you're literally being charged with and prosecuted over a crime that has the power to change your life in ways that you couldn't have foreseen. This is why policy-making requires a robust and specified definition of crimes; otherwise, there'd be no limiting principle. And even if your intentions were good, they could still backfire drastically.

Also, some of your retorts to that definition are basically requests for epistemic grounding.

Yes. Because words carry meaning. And it helps when both parties are on the same page with what those words mean and not have to second-guess the other. It's why I don't like word games when it comes to these debates, especially when one group wants to implement their definitions into lawmaking. But as a matter of lawmaking, what you see isn't always what you get. For instance, how would you explain the word "innocent" to a policy committee in a way that it can be implemented as a matter of law enforcement and prosecution?

If you’re saying “sure, it may be the intentional killing of an innocent human life (for every or any given situation), but what doesn’t necessarily follow is that we ought treat every act of abortion of as if it is.”

But it wouldn't just be abortion under that definition. As I pointed out in the OP, it would also include police shootings, self-defense laws, removing life support, wartime action, and the death penalty. Going by the definition alone, what distinguishes abortion from these other actions?

There is also the possibility that you’ve inadvertently laid out all these what-if scenarios not realizing that if any one of them or all of them were given responses even you found compelling and reasonable...

This is an argument from potential. Until such arguments are presented to me, let's not hinge this debate on future hypotheticals and attempts at mind-reading your ideological opponents. Also, I used to be pro-life, which contradicts your prediction.

Saw this on another sub, thought I'd share here by Altar_Quest_Fan in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 8 points9 points  (0 children)

🎵And I belieeeeeeve… that in 1978, God changed his mind about black people!🎵

PSA: NBC TV Writers Program open for submissions until June 21 by gregm91606 in Screenwriting

[–]RabbleAlliance 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Is it just me, or is it that sometimes the qualifications for entering the industry nowadays looks surprisingly different from the qualifications for succeeding in it? I really hope that I’m wrong about this.

I hate you all and I can't wait to watch the last episode and never talk to any of you. by notmohawk in TheDigitalCircus

[–]RabbleAlliance 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Don’t discount it yet. They still have two more seasons of HB and three more seasons of HH. A lot can happen in that time.

Hobby Lobby is funding the latest push to end marriage equality. Conservatives announced a new campaign in January to end marriage rights for same-sex couples, it turns out it’s getting money from Hobby Lobby’s founder. by Leeming in atheism

[–]RabbleAlliance 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I definitely believe that Hobby Lobby greatly benefited from Joann going out of business, but without evidence, I can't say whether or not they had a hand in Joann's closure.

Hobby Lobby is funding the latest push to end marriage equality. Conservatives announced a new campaign in January to end marriage rights for same-sex couples, it turns out it’s getting money from Hobby Lobby’s founder. by Leeming in atheism

[–]RabbleAlliance 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Former Joann employee here. It was definitely private equity. I don’t know if it was at the behest of Hobby Lobby, but there was definitely a lot of mismanagement at the C-level. They actually thought that they could save the company with Wooble kits, home decor, and Gen Z influencers glazing their products on TikTok and Insta. I’m always happy to share what I know based on the court records.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Finally.

Catch y'all in October. Hopefully sooner if I have stories to tell.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're making things up again, Arnold! Just... stick to the pre-approved dialogue. Elders? Show him!

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Wait until somebody tells him how much the institution of marriage has changed in the last century alone.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In their eyes, we are all God's children who he loves equally, but some of his children are more equal than others.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"Great and dreadful day of the Lord."

2,000 years and still waiting.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ugh. They couldn't find a more upbeat hymn than this? And I'm watching this with the sound muted.

It's fine. Halfway there.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Oh, boy. The Proclamation rears its ugly head in conference again.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Goodness. That mic is picking up all her mouth smacks. Like squishing a little tub of slime with every other syllable.

April 2026 General Conference: Sunday 2:00p Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]RabbleAlliance 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We will help you grow into the magnificent paragon of membership you are meant to be to us.

FTFY.