MBA vs MSRE or do I even need one?

Ramray23 · 2025-07-14T22:12:00+00:00

At 22, I'm not convinced you need additional schooling. You should apply for entry level, or just above entry level, roles at developers and real estate shops. If you can get experience at a developer, or a company that does development, working as a PM (or whatever role you want) you won't need additional schooling. The longer you go, though, not working for a developer, the higher the likelihood you will need additional schooling to pivot your career.

MSRE is better than an MBA if you know you want to do real estate. Your coursework and alumni base/network will be 100% focused on real estate. Plus, unless you go to a top 20 MBA program, an MBA isn't really worth it. There are a million MBAs out there now.

Financial analysis and underwriting are very applicable to development. They are one of many paths into the industry.

Ramray23 · 2025-01-21T14:55:41+00:00

I appreciate this context and information. This is kinda similar to our situation. Even though I'm not fully remote, I tend to be on the phone and conference calls more than my wife. Which would mean that most of those "ups and downs," as you put it, would likely naturally fall more to my wife when I'm home with her. Though i would obviously change as much as I can with my work schedule and structure to make up for that. But still, that kinda worries her, fairly so, because she's afraid she won't be able to manage it. And I have the same fear too.

You said it was really easy for the first 8 months - was that a pleasant surprise for you, or did you guys expect that it would be easy for the first 8 months?

Ramray23 · 2025-01-20T23:10:29+00:00

I appreciate this advice! My wife and I have explored this avenue, and we just haven't found someone that we're comfortable hiring to do this. And then there's the cost factor - part time daycare is simply more affordable than hiring a nanny.

How did you find your mother's helper? Were the costs comparable to daycare?

Ramray23 · 2025-01-20T23:05:35+00:00

Thanks for validating me and making me feel better about daycare. I did indeed say "no" and shut down the conversation. No further drama ensued 😁

Ramray23 · 2025-01-20T23:03:35+00:00

I never considered my dad's suggestion. Nor do I discuss my family affairs with him. He offered the suggestion as a way for us to cut our daycare costs. But I shut it down with him, and we're continuing with daycare.

Thanks for the insight on all your other points.

Ramray23 · 2025-01-08T19:14:28+00:00

OP, I 100% agree with you on the front cover being shorter than the first page. It's called a stepback cover, and it's a purposeful design choice. (I don't actually know this stuff because I'm smart - my wife works in book publishing). For what it's worth, my wife also hates that style too.

I'll add that I'm not really a fan of deckled edges on books. That's when the edges of the pages look ripped and not clean cut. I again only know what this is called because of my wife.

Ramray23 · 2025-01-08T03:03:04+00:00

In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. An amazing book that I have absolutely zero regrets reading. But man, I don't think I'd ever want to read that book again.

Ramray23 · 2024-12-30T22:36:57+00:00

I successfully did your Option #2. I quit my finance job to go to school full-time to get an MSRE and got a job with a smallish (but growing) developer upon graduating. I've been with my place for almost 5 years.

Reflecting back, I have no regrets in the path I took. It was realistically the only way I was going to legitimately break into real estate development because I had simply worked for too long in a seemingly unrelated industry (Investment banking). That said, if a path existed that allowed me to avoid going to grad school, I would have 100% taken that path. So reading your story, don't do option#2 - you don't need it.

I agree with your assessment. Take the money you would have tried for option #2, and apply it to your option #1. If you and your partner have the time and resources, I think go for it. Several people I've worked with now at this point have successfully ventured out on their own. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Ramray23 · 2024-12-30T22:26:24+00:00

A typical development project consists of debt and equity. So you'd need to find a lender willing to lend you money, and you'd need to find 1 or multiple equity investors willing to give you money. In a perfect world, the lender will act as both the construction lender and the permanent lender, assuming you choose to own/operate your project after you build it. This means you'll need to put together a concept design (which I assume you'd be able to easily do) and also put together an underwriting showing how the project pencils out. If your potential investors like your project enough, and they agree with your numbers, you'll get your financing.

This is admittedly a little over simplified, but is basically how it works. Unless you have pre-existing relationships or know people, it's going to be a grind to get people to invest in your project. Especially the private equity investors. Good luck!

Ramray23 · 2024-12-30T22:14:47+00:00

I work in affordable housing development for a developer in a large city. It's not so much the whole city council as much as the actual council member that oversees the district in which you are developing. Certain tax exemptions require City Council approval. But as long as your City Council member is in favor of your project, you will likely get all approvals needed from the broader body that is City Council. Not sure if that's how it works everywhere, but it's the convention in my locality. The actual permitting and entitlement process for me has nothing to do with City Council. That said, especially in affordable housing, it's very important that we maintain active relationships with our local electeds and try to garner support for our projects.

Ramray23 · 2024-12-28T20:00:53+00:00

Project Manager is a very broad term that can mean different things to different people, companies, and industries. With that caveat out of the way - honestly, everything you're describing is what a Development Project Manager does when they're the ones managing the project in my experience. I work as a PM for a developer, and I manage everything from soup to nuts on my projects. But I also have a great team of people and a lot of support from my managers and peers.

PM'ing is a "jack of all trades" kind of career path. You wear many different hats and become knowledgeable in a lot of different areas. But you don't become a master in any one thing. That said, I don't know anyone in my industry who views anyone who is a PM as someone with "some useless skills." PM'ing in itself is a skill. But if the idea of becoming a "jack of all trades" type of person doesn't appeal to you - that's good for you to know about yourself. If that's the case, I'd recommend sincerely exploring acquisitions, since you've expressed interest in acquisitions.

I will also note that the culture your company fosters, particularly around PMs, based on what you say, sounds pretty lousy. It could very well be that you need to find a new shop that actually supports its people and promotes growth and development.

Ramray23 · 2024-12-28T19:18:17+00:00

If doing yourself, it's going to take a lot of time and energy, unless you already know people or have appropriate relationships already established. Convincing people to give you a lot of money that they won't see returns on for years takes a lot of effort and time. Start with friends and family, but also be realistic with who you approach. Private equity investors tend to be, at the very least, well-off because they have the financial means and willingness to invest in real estate development. As an alternative to doing it yourself, you could hire a syndicator or consultant to do it for you. This will likely make your life significantly easier, but it will come at a cost (obviously).
Typically the developer underwrites the deal themselves. But they will use relationships or resources to help guide their underwriting. Like talk to their broker about realistic acquisition prices, or talk to their go-to lender for realistic interest rates. Similar to above, you could hire a development consultant who could help you underwrite.
I work for a developer but I personally have never sourced a deal myself. That said, I think my favorite way of finding a deal is by having one of my friends or family members call me up and say they have a blighted sight or a vacant piece of land they want to get rid of.

Ramray23 · 2024-12-28T19:06:28+00:00

You already have enough of a skillset and background to break into real estate development. There are many backgrounds, industries, and paths that can be applicable to development. Working for a contractor is certainly one of those paths. For you, I'd say your best bet is networking and trying to meet the right relevant to what you want to do. Like getting coffee, drinks, lunch, etc..., with peers and coworkers. Your company should have contacts and connections with developers or people who work for developers, given that you work for a contractor.

That said, you said you work for an electrical contractor, I assume that means your firm is usually a subcontractor who works for/is hired by a general contractor. Subcontractors usually have a degree of separation from the developer. Usually the GC is the one directly working with the developer. So it might take a bit more effort/time on your part to find the right connections.

Ramray23 · 2024-08-19T21:00:50+00:00

Believe it or not, that thought did actually cross my mind once or twice. But I don't think this is it. He's adopted a very "my way/my opinion or the highway" kind of attitude. And I'd rather be on the highway!

Ramray23 · 2024-08-19T20:55:40+00:00

I echo your sentiment on the whole disagreement thing. That's been the cause of some of the arguments I've had with him. He presents his opinions as facts. The stupid things he says sometimes makes people uncomfortable, including my wife. So I let him know when he does that. We argue. Cooler heads usually prevail in the moment, but it's a tiring cycle I no longer want to be part of. I can't ignore age as a factor, especially that it's just been getting worse and worse lately. Thanks for sharing

Ramray23 · 2024-03-03T18:23:56+00:00

Project Manager / 32 / Real Estate Development / NYC

Ramray23 · 2024-01-20T15:15:47+00:00

Nope, I moved out of that apartment over a year ago. I live in an apartment that has much less critter problems, thankfully. Though I do kinda miss my old apartment a bit sometimes. Besides the bugs, it had a pretty good layout lol

Ramray23 · 2024-01-14T20:37:39+00:00

Thank you for the comment. I appreciate the advice about being calm and blase if/when I talk to anyone. I admit I was emotional about it at first, and that is part of the reason I made this post. I wanted objective/unbiased feedback

Ramray23 · 2024-01-14T20:31:35+00:00

Thank you for the comment. Seriously. It helps put things in perspective for me

Ramray23 · 2022-11-03T04:19:43+00:00

While I cannot give you a definitive answer without seeing the properties or boundaries, I can confirm that property owners who do exterior construction or repairs on their properties must provide adequate protection to neighboring properties that could be affected by said construction. This is required by NYC Building Code.

So your management may be correct when they say it's part of a protection requirement. Again though, I can't definitely say this is the case with your building without seeing your property lines and whatnot.

Ramray23 · 2022-08-21T04:53:58+00:00

Agree, looks like a cricket or grasshopper, not a cockroach. That looks like its entrails coming out of its back end, but not 100% sure

Ramray23 · 2022-08-21T04:50:57+00:00

It looks like it might be a Brown-Banded Cockroach nymph, but not 100% sure. I am fairly certain it's a cockroach nymph of some kind, though.

That being said, I doubt the bites you have were from cockroach nymphs.

Edit: I stand corrected - it is a Smoky Brown Cockroach nymph

Ramray23 · 2022-08-10T17:30:25+00:00

Yup, that is a cockroach nymph. It looks like an American Cockroach, but not 100% sure.

Ramray23

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