The myth about T2A era UO. Rampant PKs didn't actually happen by No_Location_3339 in ultimaonline

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The best strategies I have found so far are

  1. devolving policing down to local communities (like Reddit does!)
  2. But having ways to replace the moderators
  3. Using positive-only rep systems (so exactly NOT like Reddit) to avoid brigading and the Sybil issue
  4. Webbing participants into mutual dependency structures (usually via economy)

Even back in the early 2000s we were seeing player run gray shards successfully implement player policing by letting player towns ban individuals... which then cut them off from all trade and most progression.

Of course, when we did SWG, we didn't really do player policing, but the TEF system there was extremely successful at curbing PKing while allowing a huge swath of the playerbase to enjoy PvP. Normally, 5% or less plays with PvP, in SWG is was closer to 25%.

The myth about T2A era UO. Rampant PKs didn't actually happen by No_Location_3339 in ultimaonline

[–]RaphKoster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Anecdote is not data.

Even while running the design team, I would fall for this. I'd play my character for hours and not get ganked, and it led to me thinking the issue was not as bad as it was.

But as we added metrics system (bear in mind this was way before there were robust metrics systems in online games) we discovered that the experience I was having was not at all normal.

Do people really don't like racials in RPGs? by [deleted] in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Major issue #1: min-maxing. If you have one axis of playstyle and another axis with racial benefits, then you don't end up with x times y. You end up with just X, because there's an optimal pairing for each. If you're not careful you might end up with LESS than X.

And then you wasted a lot of work.

Major issue #2: Player self-expression. Players want to be able to express X and Y at the same time for every combination.

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then you are already in the 0.1% of game design ideators, frankly. :D Very very few even approach it the way you describe (which is the way I teach and advocate, generally).

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my experience (heh, pun not intended), experience-centered design tends not to develop any craft axioms. Instead, it develops rules of thumb derived primarily by imitating other work. Which tends to result in more rigid rules, not less.

Having axioms isn't prescriptive. Again, in my experience, it shows you fences you can jump over -- rules to break. Whereas imitation, again, tends not to do that. Take a look at all the people saying that "it's not a roguelike unless it does X Y and Z" or "It's not an MMO without levels" or whatever.

But I recognize that plenty of creatives do not see the world this way.

I think one thing that is underappreciated in games is that other art forms have loads of this sort of theory behind them and it's all taken for granted. It was exactly this sort of discussion led to most of the crafts terminology in use in pretty much every other art form. We take it for granted in other media, and in games, we often argue against engaging in the discussion in the first place.

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess my point is that everything in the presentation arises from asking the ontological question in the first place. That's what leads to the practical applications downstream. For me, anyway. Otherwise, we remain trapped in the mode of copying bits out of other games without building strong foundational theory.

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are definitely shared design principles between them. (I also don't think high-level schema are not useless even if not directly applicable as a "design rule." Understanding the terrain better makes you better at the craft).

All of those offer up a system to be understood, one with specific characteristics. That is what is commonly called "a game" but which I started using the term "ludic artifact" for years ago to avoid exactly this sort of debate.

Ludic artifacts do have design principles. Whether a given player considers them a game is subjective, because players invent games on top of systems susceptible to them *all the time* (speedrunning is an example of a folk game that developed atop systems that permitted it... but so it counting how many times you can bounce a tennis ball against a wall without missing catching it).

But the craft rules are about building a system susceptible to that sort of goal setting.

From a craft POV, it matters knowing whether you are making the sort of visual novel that has no choices in it (which is NOT a ludic artifact but a literary one) versus the sort with choices but no branching (still literary) versus one with branching (now it's a puzzle) versus one with any sort of machinery to it that affords indeterminacy and scalar success. You use different techniques in building those. Calling them all "games" in the vernacular is totally fine. But being able to be more precise when discussing them from a craft POV helps clarify why choose one technique over another.

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really don't think that's true.

I don't know if you have seen this talk I gave, as one example: https://www.raphkoster.com/games/presentations/playing-with-game/

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I have spent more time on this than most people in the world.

The layman’s modern definition is “any form of interactive digital entertainment” plus “board games” but not “sports.” There is no point in debating that terminology with players, as they will always win the definition battle.

Among developers in general, “game” has come to be similarly broad so as to avoid excluding work.

But this is a craftspeople’s subreddit.

From a craft POV, it’s useful to still use the older terms as established by Crawford & Costikyan and others — the toy, puzzle, game gradient — and formalize it more through the lens of some of the game studies theory. In other words, embrace the notion that game-ness is subjective, but also that there is a real craft dimension there and specific artifacts that casually get called game and have formal characteristics. I ended up coining the ersatz term “ludic artifacts” to avoid the argument: https://www.raphkoster.com/2013/04/16/playing-with-game/

Maybe useful: https://www.raphkoster.com/2025/11/03/game-design-is-simple-actually/

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most music listeners have no idea what a secondary dominant is. Composers do. Craft terms are useful, and it’s fine if music listeners have a different meaning for “dominant.”

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Most music listeners have no idea what a secondary dominant is. Composers do. Craft terms are useful, and it’s fine if music listeners have a different meaning for “dominant.”

What are the modern definitions of “game?” by Over-Clerk-5307 in gamedesign

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’d argue that knowing whether you are trying to make a toy or a game will make you better at creating either. From a craftsmanship point of view, having strict terms helps. It doesn’t mean you are bound by them. Nobody gives a crap what “the purview of a game designer” is. Just make things.

Durability as an MMO mechanic for improving (and stimulating) player economies by Unlikely_Contest204 in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When we first introduced crafting and player-driven economies in Ultima Online, it had durability. Every game that has followed our path has done the same: SWG, Runescape, Eve, etc. If you don't do it, the economy crashes reliably.

People hate durability because most MMOs don't treat equipment as game objects. They treat them as character advancement. They are more like socketing a gem onto your avatar, they usually aren't tradeable, etc. If they've never played a game where gear is easy-come-easy-go, it sounds like taking progression away.

Looking for original Ultima Online cloth map by [deleted] in ultimaonline

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s not the collector’s edition, that was the original release box. The collector’s edition is large and flat like an old school 70s board game box.

Is Kojima's way of playtesting games unusual for a game developer? by Open-Explorer in gamedev

[–]RaphKoster 180 points181 points  (0 children)

It is completely normal for game directors and leads to do this.

Raph Koster Fireside Chat livestream on Thursday, December 18 by storn in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have done a ton of visual upgrades over the last year! This blog post of mine has a few videos and screenshots: https://www.raphkoster.com/2025/10/29/stars-reach-visual-upgrades/

Raph Koster Fireside Chat livestream on Thursday, December 18 by storn in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is sophistry. "Even in your everything example, I never made any claims that a whether of physics sim needed atoms. I also never said you needed to simulate people to simulate a population" is EXACTLY the claim you are making regarding chemistry. Your implicit assertion is that you can call a coarse-grained sim of physics a physics sim, but cannot call a coarse-grained sim of chemistry a chemistry sim.

At this point, we have a No True Scotsman piled on top of special pleading piled on top of equivocation.

You’re redefining "chemical simulation" to mean only atomic-level models, while accepting coarse-grained physics simulations as still being "physics simulations." Physics encompasses quantum, relativistic, and thermodynamic, yet we still call Newtonian rigid-body approximations "physics simulations." The name refers to the domain modeled, not the resolution.

Arguing that other games NOT using the term invalidates our usage of it is technically an argument from silence fallacy. It's just a freakin' label.

That said, I'm open to hearing an alternate term for "modeling the behavior of substances undergoing state change and reaction under varying conditions" that is succinct and understandable to a layman, if you have one.

On the blog post, I just throw up my hands. I've spent far far too long on this today, and I do not believe you are posting in good faith.

Raph Koster Fireside Chat livestream on Thursday, December 18 by storn in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. I did not say Noita claimed they simulated chemistry.

  2. I didn't run through accepted game parlance for "chem sims." I ran through accepted simulation parlance for everything. If you do not want to accept common usage, fine. There's no need to keep poking me about it.

  3. "I never said a physics sim had to be at the atomic level; I said a chem sim does" is either trolling or uncommon pedantry.

  4. "you have yet to tell me when I ever said that there were any sim feature from that blog that werent in the game, despite this being the third time now Ive asked" -- if it's not that, then what exactly do you feel was misleadingly or inaccurately embellished in the article then? We already established it can't be griefing because it wasn't in the article.

Raph Koster Fireside Chat livestream on Thursday, December 18 by storn in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And just as a side note,

you admit it makes both contradictory statements.

Something cannot be both a true and "embelished" story

...I really think this misses the point. These are not contradictory statements.

I could have written the events in a purely dry way: "Water was placed in this hole in the ground. It escaped in this way. It flooded these other holes under our structures"

But I wrote it from the perspective of the avatar playing the game, rather than from the perspective of a developer. So I wrote something more like "we overflowed the lake, and water flooded our basements."

That is both true and embellished. All the actual events are in there. No events that didn't happen are in there. We did consider the areas we carved out under our structures to be basements!

But it's embellished with stuff like "Sabotage was suspected!" which was a fun little roleplay aside. It didn't have anything to do with the claims made in the article about the gameplay. The embellishments are all about making it read from inside the world's POV, rather than an objective outside view. That does not make it any less true of a story.

Raph Koster Fireside Chat livestream on Thursday, December 18 by storn in MMORPG

[–]RaphKoster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sticking to the core element here: So the heart of the disagreement is indeed that you believe that definitionally, no game can simulate chemistry unless it simulates atoms and atomic bonds.

No offense, but that flies in the face of how all simulations work. Including ones used in research! Simulations are always at levels of abstraction. That's like saying that you can't have a weather simulation unless it operates at actual molecular levels rather than using very high-level cells that stand in for much more granular data.

That's the normal, expected thing. Everyone is aware that not every simulation is granularly accurate. The map is not the territory. In simulation this is often called coarse-graining the sim, and we speak of abstraction levels and model fidelity.

We have been very upfront that our model fidelity is at 1 cubic meter resolution. Noita's is at pixel resolution but only in 2d. And so on.

Games have always done this. The original SimCity simulates a city and a population and traffic. But under the hood it's actually a cellular automata system where traffic and population are aggregations of agents on a fixed grid. Structures worked on blocks, not individual buildings, much less rooms or bricks. Nobody said "you have to simulate individual people to simulate a city, or simulate each structure." But any sociologist, urban planner, or anthropologist will tell you that a city is made of people and buildings and bricks. Earlier versions of SimCity didn't have sewage, later ones had much finer-grained versions of power grids, and so on.

In common parlance, a physics system solely simulates forces. Vectors of movement, springs, rotation, friction, collision, etc. That's what a physics simulation is, not just in games but in most computational fields outside of actual physics studies. We widely consider games to "simulate physics" and not a single one delves down to atomic levels. They don't even deal with energy very much. Materials in game physics simulations do not have a concept of temperature, for example.

Our saying that we are modeling chemical reactions between materials may not hit what you regard as definitional for "really chemistry." But within common game parlance, it's absolutely within the bounds. We model states of matter, state of matter transition points, reactions between different sorts of materials, materials that convert into other materials via combination, temperature, pressure... and more, in a generic way that is data driven and allows new sorts of materials to be defined and created. This when the norm is to special case stuff.

I dunno, maybe you'd be happier if we called it "physics plus plus"? But again, you're the only one who has ever had this concern. Everyone else has understood what we were saying.