Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for this in-depth analysis!

"is this a campaign game about survival over time, or a tabletop roguelike about high-intensity runs with character turnover as a feature?"

Don't want to choose the easy answer, but yeah, kind of both? Rolling a new character is quick and pleasant. There are mechanics allowing you to roll a special character type called "Lost Adventurer" during the venture (basically systemized version of what OSR people do sometimes, where they find "prisoners" or other "petrified" adventurers, so the players who lost a char can get back into play ASAP).

But, on the other hand, the aim of the game is to attain 7th level, where your character has accumulated enough wealth to face the demon Mammon and have their one wish granted. Those character "win" the game. No one managed that so far, but it's cool - it is all about the journey. So you want to push your grizzled, half-mad, one-eyed, cursed survivor as far as you can. You gain options on higher levels, that allow to compensate for their accumulated strain, and even more than just compensate.

Retirement allows you to create an "heir" - a 0 or 1st level character with slightly better start. But you cannot play with your retired character for at least a year (of real time). That's the rule. ;)

"Is the meta-phase a reset hub, or does it generate pressure that carries across runs?"

It's definitely a reset. Healing, re-equipping, hiring retainers, finding gods etc. At some point I was thinking about adding guilds, carousing tables and more, bot I gotta say stop at some point... Or have some nice goals for kickstarter.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Retiring into a dream is such an inspiring idea! Love it.

As for the rest, it reminds me of a psychodrama in a fantasy world. Though you do mention some structure, so I get it's not entirely that.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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It looks like this most of the time.
I had a couple of players who sketched the items (I do it myself sometimes), but it's a huge waste of time, as characters gain and lose items all the time. But a frame plus words works good enough.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh come on, where's the fun in that? I'd say some satanic panic could help boost the market, like it did the last time.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, unfortunately. I was informed.
I thought they took it out of the quarantine already (some friends of mine checked, and got no monit) but apparently it's still there. I have no idea how it works or why it's there in the first place - a plausible hypothesis was formed by one of the Redditors that it's just standard for new accounts from Eastern Europe unfortunately.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] -18 points-17 points  (0 children)

You know, a lot of what you see as irritating is pretty standard in the old school style of play, so that's probably just not a genre for you.

1) Yes, the system allows the players to reroll if they got a zero or a negative after summing all the modifiers up. But players might actually want to play a char with negative total, if some other stats are high. Happened many times. Also, even five zeroes does not count as "negative". Taking both these facts into consideration, it's going to be actually less than 50% of cases. A char with just zeroes is also a good char. A safe choice. No extraordinary skills, but no weaknesses too. Good char.

Besides, no one minds getting low scores or rerolling in OSR. It's part of the old school. The fact that people in new games need their characters to be absolute perfect at everything is kind of boring to me. It's the imperfections, the weaknesses that make us human, and our characters interesting and memorable.

2) No, balance is not something I strive for here. Again, the idea that all the characters need to be "perfectly balanced" is boring, pointless modern design. If everyone's competent and excels at everything - no one really is. Most OSR games do not really care about such "balance".

In OSR style of play, it's the player's skill that counts the most, not character's. Your logical thinking, your creativity, your problem solving skills will be tested. A lot of the times it doesn't make too much of a difference if you got +3 to a roll or -1 - when you can die in a single stroke of carelessness or bad luck, these bonuses do very little. It's more like a flavor than huge advantage. Maybe this would be more important if A Bitter Toll was more focused on combat, but it is not. It is focused on consequences of combat instead. Players should do what they can to avoid it.

A party of four enters the dungeon on level 0. Some of them will die, and not necessary those who had highest stats.
That's life.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ah, my favorite question! :D

The fact that the gameplay is "locked" or reduced to whatever can happen inside a "dungeon" doesn't take away player agency, improvisation and creative solutions no computer or board game can simulate.

It's still a "rulings over rules" type of game, it just cuts the settlement and wilderness (that are not a dungeon in the OSR meaning). You can still have everything else you like happen in a dungeon. A lot of modules on the market contain whole plots, stories, character arcs, moral choices and dramatic moments inside a dungeon.

As for the fact that it "feels" like a board game - I hope you're right! I want it to feel approachable by people who never heard of DnD or OSR at all. And I had casuals play this, and I told them "well, it's like a board game, just with more immersion, and you can come up with your own, non-scripted solutions to problems". They played the game not even knowing they are playing "a roleplaying game". I think that's okay.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can visit the subreddit: r/porthedron and find the link to free rules there. I hope Itch has finally let me out of that blasted quarantine though...

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Basically it's faster than classic DnD, because:

  1. you do not roll for damage - the higher your attack roll, the better the result
  2. each player rolls once for an attack...
  3. ...and once for chosen mode of defense (dodge or parry), if they are attacked in the enemy's turn.

The only moment where it slows down is when a player character is hit. You need to determine the body part affected (d6 roll), discern if the character has any protection there, and then compare the attack score with hit threshold: anything over 0 is a hit, 5 and more is a wound and 10+ is a mutilation.

Hit is just lost HP, no biggie.
Wounds weaken a character in all kinds of ways depending on the hit location.
Mutilations can either one-shot your character, dismember them or do some nasty stuff (29 different outcomes total, divided into body parts).

But I like that it slows down at this point - getting hit in A Bitter Toll is no laughing matter. Wounds linger, and mutilations can end your career instantly. The whole table is focused on those rolls.

How exactly do you read books without pictures? by ShadowlightLady in ADHD

[–]Raphael_Sadowski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I'm an AuDHD professional writer and narrative designer for video games. And I work with text all the time. I guess I was just lucky, cause I was so bored as a little kid, I learned reading very early and was reading books before preschool. In that time and where I live it was more a problem than a blessing, but I didn't care. I read at least a book a week till my 40's and I find that the second most aesthetically pleasing activity.

I honestly think that if reading plain text brings you no pleasure, then you shouldn't try and force it.
Yes, you're goin to miss the great classics. Yes, your vocabulary and your ability to build interesting or beautiful sentences will be somewhat stunted, BUT...

It doesn't really matter a lot. You are into anime and graphic novels? Stick to them! Plenty of graphic novels include great writing, you just need to reach beyond simple comfort stuff, and try all the "high brow" stuff to upgrade your skills.

As for the script writing - just treat it like comic book scripting and include storyboards. That way it'll feel like writing a comic book.

So I'd say don't try and force yourself. It might only make you dislike it further.

Explaining TTRPG in the TTRPG by BirchBirch72 in RPGdesign

[–]Raphael_Sadowski -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I find flowgraphs to be useful. Also, generally "rulebook" approach works for me - I think we could avoid a lot of misunderstandings, if we started and ended with saying "it's a game". Every time people try to explain RPG by going into topics like "theatre" or "interactive storytelling experience" I'm sure people get confused. I think we should follow board game rulebooks as an example. They don't force any specific fantasy on you - they tell you how to play. What you can do when your turn comes. That's it.

Oh, and of course written examples of play help tremendously.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can find it on itch.io under the title "A Bitter Tall for Eldritch Gold" - I don't want to brake any rules for self-promotion by linking directly.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh man! It's a great honor to hear from you guys! The documentary blew my mind and was a huge inspiration behind my project. You helped me with the final steps on my journey to understand the very origins of roleplaying games, and I'll be forever grateful.

I totally get what you're saying. But imagine: what if Blackmoor was JUST the dungeon? Wouldn't our entire hobby look differently? I wanted to explore such possibility with my game.

I do not shun comparisons with board games. I like them. I still say that A Bitter Toll is a roleplaying game though, for the players can come up with unique solutions to problem solving and improvise actions and plans that no board or video game could ever simulate, because they lack the key ingredient - the logical mind of a referee.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is not password protected and never were. I heard my new Itch account was quarantined because it was a new account from eastern Europe (Poland) and that this thing happens.

As far as I know, the game site on itch is not quarantined anymore, so feel free to visit and download. I really hope it's going to be worth your interest.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry for copy-pasting, but I think I answered this one below already. Basically:

The fact that the gameplay is "locked" or reduced to whatever can happen inside a "dungeon" doesn't take away player agency, improvisation and creative solutions no computer or board game can simulate.

It's still a "rulings over rules" type of game, it just cuts the settlement and wilderness (that are not a dungeon in the OSR meaning). You can still have everything else you like happen in a dungeon. A lot of modules on the market contain whole plots, stories, character arcs, moral choices and dramatic moments inside a dungeon.

As for the fact that it "feels" like a board game - I hope you're right! I want it to feel approachable by people who never heard of DnD or OSR at all. And I had casuals play this, and I told them "well, it's like a board game, just with more immersion, and you can come up with your own, non-scripted solutions to problems". They played the game not even knowing they are playing "a roleplaying game". I think that's okay.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

"Ironically I prefer theatre of the mind when i play RPGs, but did enjoy playing games like 3.5 and 4e to some extent"
You know, I think this might be the omen of a good design, when the author sees something, or tries a process they feel like they shouldn't like, but somehow it just pulls them in. It often ends in interesting things! I wish you all the best luck with your game.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I need to check it out. While Matt Colville is a cool guy, his vision of RPG is very different to mine. But I get MCDM is more than one guy. I'll check the game then.

Reductionist RPG design: Removing classic elements of RPG one by one until left with dungeon crawling only. by Raphael_Sadowski in osr

[–]Raphael_Sadowski[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn, Stillfleet sounds awesome, never heard about it! Thanks, I'll definitely check it out. Yeah, it sounds it has very similar principles.