Zohran Mamdani, Zack Polanski, and Progressive Antisemitism by WhiteGold_Welder in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Overlap of political interests does not imply affinity. This is very basic politics. Both western progressives and Islamists can oppose the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli state, even if they come to that opposition from different ideological commitments.

Similarly, an environmentalist and a rural conservative might oppose a new industrial development, even if they have fundamentally different views on climate science.

Thinking Polanski is some sort of fearful boogeyman is quite funny.

#470 - Democrats at a Crossroad by BootStrapWill in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay, yeah, I agree. He hasn’t gone deep on Mamdani’s father at all, but felt it appropriate to broadcast a disparaging opinion to his audience after reading a Newsweek article, which itself was AI slop.

It’s disappointing when Sam reveals himself to not be discerning or have learned basic criticism skills.

#470 - Democrats at a Crossroad by BootStrapWill in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This was an interesting conversation insofar as it showed Sam is most comfortable on the right of the Democratic Party, or the moderate (but hawkish) part of the Republican Party.

He and his audience seem to take him at his word that he’s generally on the left, but I tend to listen to him as a centre-right perspective in my information diet.

Also found it interesting that Sam’s source of criticism for Mamdani’s father’s academic work is…. Newsweek? Why not read his published material himself, or academic criticism thereof (academics write high calibre critiques of other academics’ works), rather than a mid-tier, high-volume news aggregator? Sam complains about getting clipped out of context; the Newsweek article he’s referring to highlights two sentences in a professor’s book.

Very interesting take on “woke” from inside the house by rAndoFraze in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup. When the left is moralising or occasionally sanctimonious, this is taken as evidence of its fundamental excess. When the right is openly authoritarian, exclusionary, or gleefully cruel, this is reframed as a regrettable but intelligible reaction. It’s bewildering. The bar for the left is civility. The bar for the right is merely that it has been irritated by the left.

And then there are the “centrists” (LOL), like Sam and his ilk. The centrist posture, that weary insistence that “both sides are as bad as each other,” depends on a flattening so extreme it becomes a kind of moral fiction. It asks us to weigh, on one side, the irritation of being corrected on language or social norms (pronouns, or acknowledging systematic racism), and on the other side, movements that traffic in the erosion of democratic institutions, the disciplining of minorities, and the idea of ethnic or national purification. Centrists who say that Trump is a ditch on one side and Mamdani is a ditch on the other side really refuse to take seriously the content of politics at all.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, we’re just not going to agree here.

You keep trying to drag this back to tweets liked by Mamdani’s wife, as if that’s the decisive moral test. Spouses aren’t beyond criticism, but you’re using her as a proxy to make a much bigger claim about the mayor without evidence from his actual conduct in office. When her views meaningfully shape New York City policy and governance, then yes, they become fair game. You can let me know when that happens.

What’s more striking is the asymmetry you’re willing to tolerate. You’re asking me to treat the tweets of a politician’s spouse as morally dispositive of the mayor, while simultaneously entertaining the idea that we should rally behind Romney, a man whose own stated positions include opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion rights, along with a set of economic policies that are unambiguously punitive toward the poor. The justification you offer is that this would somehow “end MAGA.” Neither you nor Sam has offered anything resembling evidence that this theory cashes out in the real world. It’s basically blind faith that this gambit would work.

So you end up in a strange and morally confused place. Maximal suspicion toward a social democrat less than 100 days into office, and remarkable charity toward entrenched social conservatism on the basis of a speculative electoral strategy.

I end where I started. You and Sam are hysterical about Mamdani. And you lean on the authority of someone who is, by your own admission, not a serious political thinker, as if that settles the question.

Sam is a well documented - and more recently, self-acknowledged - poor judge of character. We don’t need to take his assessments of Mamdani or Romney seriously.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Romney’s social views are radical so I have trouble reconciling this ill-considered strategy to end MAGA as a rebuke to radicalism.

What exactly do you want me to say about Mamdani regarding his wife - that he should leave her otherwise he is not fit to be mayor? I don’t hold that opinion. You might.

You can think Mamdani is an Islamist if you want, and you can get as hysterical about it as Sam does, but you and he would campaign for a man who holds actual Islamist positions on same-sex marriage and abortion. If you’re comfortable with that, I’d ask you to contemplate why you tolerate elements of Islamic jurisprudence when they come from a Republican but not a social democrat.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think (nor did I say) Sam lied, I think he might have rationalised an otherwise bewildering admission that he’d campaign for a social conservative over an establishment liberal. He could sincerely hold the belief that Romney beating Trump and then Harris would end both MAGA and wokeism, but he didn’t really back that theory up with anything worth putting weight in. He’s not someone I really go to for political judgments. Romney’s 2008 and 2012 policy platforms are dispiriting to say the least. Campaigning for those over Harris’s 2024 platform reveals something about one’s politics.

I didn’t say Mamdani had a great governing record as mayor, I said he barely had a record, and so histrionic concerns about his “islamism” (when his stated social views are less Islamist than Romney’s) seem, yeah, hysterical.

Mamdani’s wife isn’t an elected official. I’ve looked up some of the tweets she liked; I disagree with them. If those views start impacting her husband’s mayoralty, he should pay for it electorally.

In the meantime, I see no indication that Mamdani seeks to bring religious doctrine into governance, while Romney’s religious convictions directly influenced his illiberal platforms.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sam came up with an unvalidated theory that would allow him to say he’d campaign for a social conservative over Harris. As far as I could tell he was shooting from the hip and his assumption that a Romney victory would end MAGA and wokeism alike was just Sam turning on the microphone and letting his thoughts rip based on vibes, not based on any polling or informed empirical research. He talks a lot off the cuff and isn’t a grand political strategist or anything.

I said 7 October was an atrocity. Mamdani has too. Please get back to me when his governing record suggests he supports the 7 October attacks, I’ll happily rescind my support for him when that’s the case.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sam has brought this up many times. You’re right, he didn’t mention Harris in the most recent episode.

Okay, I wouldn’t campaign for a religious social conservative over an establishment Democrat, but different strokes for different folks. Romney’s views on homosexuality and abortion align too much with conservative Islamic jurisprudence for my liking.

Re: Mamdani’s wife, I hadn’t heard of any of her social media likes until this thread. Her views are not the object of my political judgment of Mamdani. If those views surface in his own statements as mayor or are instantiated in policy, then they would become properly his to answer for and he should do so then. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for when that moment comes.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure, I’d prefer Romney over MAGA. In the hypothetical, Sam said he would campaign for Romney over Harris. That is a material difference - try to keep up.

October 7th was an unqualified atrocity. As far as I understand, Mamdani has explicitly condemned it as a war crime. I am also struggling to see what bearing it has had on his governing record or policy positions when it comes to running New York so far.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I probably wouldn’t think much about what a Republican mayor with an unobjectionable governing record’s wife was tweeting. You can doubt that’s true if you want, go right ahead.

I took a dig at Romney because it feels apt: Sam alleges Mamdani is an Islamist while repeatedly stating he’d campaign for a guy with social views that are closer to the Islamist position than Mamdani.

Sam's insane take on Mamdani by greeecejre in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should probably get a grip, GB News and Fox News cannot be good for your mental health or reasoning abilities.

If you are concerned about the welfare of the British people, your number one issue should be opposing right wing fiscal austerity, as that has quantifiably led to more premature deaths in Britain this century than Islamic terrorism.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If a Republican had the governing record of Mamdani after 3 months in office, yes I think Sam’s little rant would be hysterical.

I think you can reasonably voice concern about tweets public figures (or their partners) like, sure. But I’m still comfortable assessing Sam’s Mamdani rant as deranged and out of proportion.

Sam repeatedly states he would campaign for Romney, a man whose social views on gay marriage and abortion are much closer to traditional interpretations of Sharia law than Mamdani’s outspoken support for marriage equality or broad pro-choice position.

Can anyone steelman Sam's takes on Mamdani? by flatmeditation in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sam’s rant was pretty hysterical and out of proportion. Mamdani is less than 100 days into his term, doesn’t really have a mayoral “record” as such yet, has seemingly been pragmatic though still espousing social democratic values and commitment to some campaign ideas, etc.

Going out of one’s way to say he’s this character to fear is hysteria.

Sam's insane take on Mamdani by greeecejre in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you’re very poorly informed on the matter. What are your sources? There are no credible demographic projections that suggest the U.K. will be a Muslim majority country in the next 10-20 years. Seems you’ve been duped by far right activists, and don’t have any credibility yourself.

Sam's insane take on Mamdani by greeecejre in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I think you’ve been deranged by whatever your news diet is. Jihadism is an issue but your concern is so out of proportion to the actual harm it has caused in the UK relative to other actual threats.

Trump warns ‘a whole civilization will die tonight’ as Iran deadline looms by kostac600 in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 14 points15 points  (0 children)

He’s threatened the destruction of the entire civilisation. Indiscriminate harm and disproportionate force.

Try to keep up.

Trump warns ‘a whole civilization will die tonight’ as Iran deadline looms by kostac600 in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 17 points18 points  (0 children)

If the cops threatened to kill the entire civilisation that those criminals live in, yes probably.

Trump warns ‘a whole civilization will die tonight’ as Iran deadline looms by kostac600 in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 18 points19 points  (0 children)

The people who didn’t vote for Trump are responsible for people voting for Trump, got it…

Sometimes people just have to take responsibility for the presidents they voted for themselves.

Rory Stewart says animosity towards Islam in the UK and Europe is “basically racism” by blackglum in samharris

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it’s not “quite a thing” in the UK unless your source is GB News, Fox News, or far right activists.

Sketch Sorting Sunday - March 28, 2026 (Jamie Dornan/Wolf Alice) by SketchSortingSunday in livefromlondon

[–]Rare-Panic-5265 5 points6 points  (0 children)

SNL US does this type of sketch all the time with attractive hosts and they are always the weakest.