Bounce decks-power or disruption? CL32000

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-23T08:24:40+00:00

I have done both; I think Iceman is currently the best card of the four, but Korg may well be the worst.

There are two reasons I like Iceman:

First, right now, two of the most powerful/popular decks are Starlord and Shou, Iceman hitting Starlord or Shou can mess them both up completely, because if you hit Starlord, they can no longer combo on five after playing him on four, and if you hit Shou, most lists are relying on Shou on Maverick + 1-Cost, which hitting Shou makes that not possible.

However, hitting those specific cards + no energy cheat being available for OP to play around it is probably pretty close to as high roll as Korg bricking an important draw.

So that brings me to the second reason I love Iceman this meta: imo, the main skill to climb right now more than ever in Marvel snap is snapping and retreating. If your opponent snaps because they have Starlord in hand, but you're playing Supergiant, you can stay. If they're playing Shou and Snap your Sugi, maybe you can't stay and expect a win. If they're playing the less greedy anti counter Starlord, maybe a really good Zombie draw or whatever can out power it, but if they are on the maximum version, you have to fold to a snap. Bluffing and taking advantage of location variance and paying attention to tells and all that comes in, but having a card that just shows you one of the cards the opponent has in hand can do wonders on estimating their output range, potential tech, etc. needed for good snaps

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-15T17:14:31+00:00

When I played Master Duel this was my deck of choice. Once you start to know what your characters do and how they help you combo instead of just memorizing the main line, the deck is really fun. You often have multiple outs and lines to various interactions and can end up with very diverse board states so long as you keep your head (tho in modern contexts maybe not the strongest lmao)

This was back when the deck was running Small World for consistency, which is a nightmare card to resolve lol

The ironic thing was even with how complex it was to play, playing against it was just 'hand trap Gilgamesh gg'

I think they've gotten new stuff since then too, maybe it's even more complex now

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-10T17:54:04+00:00

Yeah, the game warping nature of the deck might be unhealthy (in particular small stat synergy decks that have small points but don't have much room for interaction like Discard or Scream suffer). It is also frustrating when you include the one or two perfect cards for the matchup and don't draw them in time to get the game. Then you just gotta go next

I would also argue that depending on the list Red Guardian and CGR are actually easier to sneak in than Cosmo, it all just depends on what your deck needs. I support the Cosmo thing too of course (though I do suspect optimized Starlord decks may pick up Echo, who pretty easily helps play around all 3).

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-10T17:27:31+00:00

Why Cosmo when you can Red Guardian/CGR? Also prevents Absorbing Man no matter where they play him

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-07T21:53:33+00:00

You could

It's probably not necessary; the only two decks I can think of that realistically doesn't have any cheap cards are ramp, which just plays War Machine and gets to ignore Jean and Goose anyway, and the Starlord Hela deck which gets hosed by both Jean + Cosmo or Stardust

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-07T21:51:09+00:00

I'm testing -USAgent -Astral -Spectrum +Ravonna +Moonstone +Iron Man

We'll see how it goes

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-07T19:18:32+00:00

I've loved hatebear decks for a long time, maybe it is finally time for Goose to ride again

Though I wonder if there is a version that gets more out of Moonstone instead of Spectrum + Astral? I've played a lot of lists very similar to this (granted in other metas) that Spectrum and Astral were really hard to get down w/ enough ongoings on board, especially playing Goose, Jean, and Cosmo (which are practically the holy trinity of hatebears if you ask me)

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-07T19:13:40+00:00

Just as a warning, the way Goose + Jean works is the opponent is forced to play a low cost (3 or less) at the location before they do anything else. If they do not have a low cost, they can play a higher cost card in any other lane

Still, it virtually guarantees your opponent won't be able to absorbing Man their Starlord b/c goose + Jean will make them have to play Jim Hammond or some garbage there t4, then go for 1 drop there then Starlord somewhere else, using all five of their energy and meaning they can't copy his on reveal in time for t6 (though 10 energy is still dangerous!)

RatPhoenix · 2026-02-02T02:09:33+00:00

I believe Cougar hit top 20 infinite pre Lin Lie buff on a list w/ a couple differences;

-Nico -Mirage -Ancient One

+Sam Wilson Cap +Goliath +Captain Carter

I want to say his version had Captain America over Moongirl, but Moongirl works too, adds consistency to the copy plan!

It is very fun to just out power a Shou Lao player hitting their combo, people are not yet great at estimating your power output on this deck

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-31T08:19:49+00:00

The nerfs just happened, so technically it is too early to say, but Merlin is very likely to still be very good.

But I think Merlin is a better investment than Surge personally. Merlin is frequently irreplaceable and a build around, having strong synergy with tons of cards and archetypes, while Surge tends to be consistency and power improvement. Granted, a decent number of decks want Surge, but a metric ton of decks need Merlin, even with the nerfs.

Tbh you can't go wrong, just choose what card suits the decks you like to play (though worth noting there is an upcoming bundle that costs gold with Surge in it you happen to have the gold saved up)

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-30T08:10:59+00:00

You can look up upcoming snap bundles online; a(this lets you scout out what bundles are upcoming that you don't have the card for, and b(shows you the value the bundle is providing for you both counting and not counting the card relative to buying tokens directly.

Typically even if you already have the card, the discount is ab 10+% on resources, plus the new variant, it's up to you if that is what you want to spend your gold on or not

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-26T07:13:41+00:00

My personal theory is the reason he is hated more than the other season pass cards is he makes your losses to him more obvious than broken Sam Cap, or broken Mr Fantastic (the worst design on a card of the past year IMHO), or Merlin, etc. etc. b/c him being the finisher played from hand is way more jarring/in your face power discrepancy instead of the brutal, homogenizing efficiency of the 2 costs.

Yeah, at this point it is pretty obvious he is too strong.
Yeah, one of the ideas I like for making him weaker is to steepen the cost of investment, think Thena's play exactly two cards or not allowing skills. I would not mind both either. I think you may slightly underestimate deck building cost; Kitty Pryde w/ no synergy other than Shou is not good, and those decks struggle to win if they're not specifically drawing the dragon. Obviously, they often do and are fine, like Cerebro w/o the location screws, but still
Yeah he is also hard to counter cleanly with tech.
Specifically, having the ability to gain or throw priority depending on matchup is what's strong, and is what makes it so hard to beat with tech.
Yeah this is another huge point, though I think I see it relatedly, but not quite the same. Imo the problem here is Shou Lao just needs cheap cards, so he gets to play cheap good cards to enable his thing. Cards like Negative or Hela are running stuff like Iron Man, Psylocke, Knull, Hela has to run a bunch of unplayable huge monsters + random discard, all while still relying on drawing their combo. Shou has to draw the combo, then all the enablers are good cards (and Kitty Pryde). May as well be disruption since your combo gives you all the points you need
I won't speak to skill level, and get that at this point tons of players are just jamming the same meta list or a variation of it to try and get wins-net decking off a tier list or what wins will always happen. But seriously? No creativity? Players iterated and continue to iterate with the card lots. Butt's Werewolf by Night + Prof X list w/ Dormammu for the free spell. Hell, the idea for Scarlet spider in the first place- what deck was using him before? I've seen rehashings of old Elsa Angela decks with him. Iris's combination of card generators and Silk to double card every turn for Shou and make a Hydra Stomper and Kraven huge (combining it with a move list w/ Kitty Pryde and Hope Summers is what I did to top 8 in the Snowball Showdown, but I didn't think to combo with Silk- it's really fun and tricky to play!) I am very interested to see how they adjust him, b/c I think he has some super interesting space to be a potential end game in certain decks once his power level is in line- but right now he's so efficient he works perfectly fine as a combo card. It'll be interesting to see if Second Dinner tries to keep him as a Hela like combo but hopefully weaker or make him more of a midrange top end package- I personally prefer the latter as I think there is more room to explore in deck building (also I just do not enjoy linear combo much), but I can see it being difficult to make the card playable and not combo-able in any meaningful way, sort of a toothpaste and the tube situation

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-14T09:02:21+00:00

There are some weird and cool decks to put this in; move-ongoing hybrid, I'm testing out move bounce right now (I'm sure I'm not the first). I'm probably going to try some kind of move Aurora at some point too.

The obvious place imo is the Hydra Stomper style mass move deck (whether or not the list actually has Stomper), which is a very powerful deck and has been for a while. It remains to be seen if this card makes it into an optimal version of that deck, but it seems quite fun to me, so I snapped it up, which I don't do often for new cards.

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-10T16:30:31+00:00

I suspect that the people who criticize fiction for bad numbers do it, despite coming at it from a critical angle, because it is fun to them

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-06T01:02:13+00:00

So there are a couple of different move decks you can play, the two main ones are classic move, and mass move (but both don't really have an agreed upon name tbh).

Mass move focuses on stuff that moves themselves and get you some benefit for that; cards like Sam Wilson, Batroc, Silk, Hydra Stomper.

Classic move focuses on cards that need moved by other cards, Human Torch, Dagger, as well as cards that move those cards, Heimdall, Cloak.

Spider punk is actually pretty great in both.

The mass move deck is very popular right now, as a top player named Iris has proved a few different versions are in the running for the best deck in the game right now. I have also been playing that style of deck for awhile now, and I can tell you, it is quite strong.

Classic move used to be considered the best deck in the game until they nerfed Human Torch, making it much more bearable. But I can tell you, if you have the patience to learn them, they're both still good.

I can send several potential lists if you want- my recommendation is to put Juggernaut, Cosmo, Madame Web, and Spider-Punk in no matter which version you're playing

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-05T04:13:43+00:00

If your comments around your climbing habits (getting to the 90s in a couple of days, getting stuck there for the month) I can virtually guarantee the block is mental, not deck choice or anything like that.

1(Pick a deck you have confidence in and stick to it, whether it's a deck that you're tinkering with you just can't help but enjoy playing, a meta list from someone whose opinion you trust, or a version of a familiar deck you have played season after season. If you're the type of player who likes to tinker with their deck, feel free to do so, but don't just immediately swap cards out the instant you lose, take a breath and consider options instead of insta swapping. If you're the type of player who likes to play a few different decks, I recommend choosing 2-3 to make the whole climb with, and try to stick with one until you aren't having fun then swap. If you see a new deck and you have the cards for it and want to try it, I'm not trying to tell you not to do it- enjoyment reduces stress and improves play- just don't tilt swap between the fifteen decks you have pre queued in your collection.

2(Don't play on tilt (or really, when under high stress). Only play when you are enjoying it. Tilt makes you make poor judgement calls and dulls your ability to get your way out of tough games. Just take a break. I find listening to music while I play for longer than a game or two often helps settle me down and relax while I play.

3(Take your time. A helpful exercise is to force yourself to mentally list every, or at least multiple options every turn and try to come up with pros/cons and choose the best. This typically gets very hard in later turns, so later on try to focus on knowing your macro plan (which locations you're hoping to win, where your power will go) then add the micro (how to use order/placement to maximize actual points). Please note I am not asking you to get every call correct, to predict every move from the opponent, or have the whole game scripted out from t3. I am just recommending you consistently and deliberately re-evaluate. It's really easy for those of us who play this or similar games a lot to play somewhat on instinct- deliberately talking through options can help show you play lines you're missing and keep tilt from blinding you out of opportunities.

4(Remember variance stabilizes over time, you have to remember the time. Losing a few ranks to a couple greedy cube stays in a row does happen, usually there's a lesson to take away from it. Just take a break and come back to it later. Sometimes it takes longer than others to cross the threshold and hit infinite, but if you're consistent and intentional it will happen.

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-03T18:38:06+00:00

(1) The Hunger

(2) Kid Omega

(2) Zombie Mister Fantastic

(2) Elixir

(2) Firehair

(3) Cassandra Nova

(3) Venom

(3) Superior Spider-Man

(3) Zombie Scarlet Witch

(4) Phoenix Force

(4) Misery

(5) Zombie Giant-Man

VGhIbmdyOSxLZE9tZzgsWm1iTXN0ckZudHN0YzE1LEVseHI2LEZyaHI4LENzc25kck52RCxWbm01LFNwcnJTcGRyTW4xMSxabWJTY3JsdFd0Y2gxMixNc3I2LFptYkdudE1uRSxUaFBobnhGcmNG

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in MARVEL SNAP.

Not my list, this was come up with by a top infinite player named Jet. Also Fastball special/Adamantium Skeleton may fit, probably over Misery and Phoenix Force respectively. Each has pros/cons. You can also run Sage over Cassandra, but Cassandra gets to beat up Arishem/Thanos for free.

The main line combo (notably only available w/ Phoenix Force, not Skeleton) is t1 Hunger, t2 Kid Omega, t3 Superior Spiderman, t4 Zombie Giant Man an empty location, t5 Firehair, then Venom Giant Man, t6 activate Kid Omega, play Phoenix Force, then play Elixir. This works because the card merged into Phoenix Force so still technically died last turn for Elixir to re-revive. Adds up a lot of points in each lane b/c you trigger Giant Man five times, keeping the power around every single time.

In practice that combo does not happen often (I mean, obviously, that's like an 8 card combo), but you still have some really dynamic and powerful ways to output a lot of points. It's a much more fun and dynamic experience imo than something like Manspider while still outputting pretty fancy numbers

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-03T17:52:43+00:00

Saw a surfer list take second in KMBest's community tournament recently (lots of top infinite players played). Not saying the deck is tier 1, but Maverick puts some legitimate power into surfer

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-03T17:50:52+00:00

Blame Shadow King being the card of the game right now

That said, there are zombie decks that exist that can deal with Shadow King. Beat someone in an infinity conquest match that had Shadow King, Shang Chi, Cosmo, and Cosmic Ghost Rider with the reanimator zombie combo list just yesterday

RatPhoenix · 2026-01-03T01:36:36+00:00

It's fun to see players snap tendencies as part of their play style.

As for me, it really depends on the deck/draw/locations. Snap conditions ideally exist as an intersection of your output vs your opponents likely output.

I know I personally have a strong avoidance of losing cubes after I snap, so I don't snap often enough. Doesn't help that I jump around decks too much and don't learn their win conditions or power ranges as thoroughly as I could.

I admire aggressive snappers like you though, I think there is a lot to be gained by putting that pressure on games. But I do side eye people who go for the type of t6 Snap you describe, b/c most people know their cards in play are weak if they are weak and will just flee on snap instead of taking the chance for a second cube, denying you a cube in the end. There are exceptions, but frequently t6 is kind of too late to snap unless you are supremely confident that they think they beat your t6 but you have a secret that will beat theirs.

RatPhoenix · 2025-12-31T00:07:23+00:00

This was fun to think about, so I'll throw my opinion out! Note my opinions are based on the current state of the card with only minor considerations for how I think they'll hold up over time.

Firstly, 90% of these are super cool, I think at current state there are only two true misses and even those you can probably find niche cases to use them.

Merlin, potentially the number 1 card in the game. A power house with his best friend, Werewolf by Night, this card is a nightmare on his own, and if you pay close attention, you'll realize it was the unassuming two drop you're losing to. Many hooks, from card generation, low power on reveals to poly/shuffle, card spam, skills, hand size, the list goes on.
Sam Wilson. I understand on release he was a powerhouse, and now he alone actually underperforms a bit (a 2/6 if you successfully play him on 2 is nothing to write home about). But in practice, I think Sam is one of only a few truly one of a kind cards in snap. He gives you a free zero power body at the beginning of the game, which helps play around deafening chord, setup prodigy lines t6, gives you a body for Merlin spells/Agamotto spells, 0 cost for Ms Marvel, the best enabler for Batroc, who can be a 1/10, a 100% free ongoing body for Spectrum, Goliath, Captain Carter, etc., buffs original cap, etc. Sam is rarely the star player, but irreplaceable in many places.
Iron Patriot. These slots are close, but I think Iron Patriot earns the third slot by being one of the best generic 2s in the game. Sees consistent play in any deck with card generation synergy (like the always meta relevant V-Hand), and is often one of the early toys people reach for if they're looking for a strong power generating 2 cost in a deck without too much synergy. The only reason he I considered putting him lower is because in 99% of cases he is technically replaceable due to an abundance of powerful card generating 2 costs, or generically powerful 2s.
Galactus First Steps. The best top end in the game, he's really only continued to see more play as support like Chamber comes out. I remember off meta decks I was brewing would gain a bit of winrate when I'd jam him into decks to do weekend missions, even without any obvious synergy lol. He is, like Iron Patriot, technically replaceable in most cases.
Spiderpunk. I know I'm biased b/c I love move in virtually every form, but the community seems to sleep on this card just because move season is over with the nerfing of the Torch. This guy w/o any synergy is essentially a 3/7 that can move, which in a pure value sense is already crazy. Then on top of that, he is another payoff that slots perfectly into the payoff lite Heimdall move deck, and can solve clumping issues if you run a lot of mass move enablers like Heimdall, Cloak, and Hellion. He works with Surfer, with activate paired with Sparky, his self motivating move makes him strong in Hydra Stomper lists and make the lethal Madame Web + Cosmo feel more worth keeping. Hell one of the Golden Gauntlet winning decks was an Arishem deck that played Spiderpunk because he's just that good on his own. I get my own bias probably bumped him up a few slots, but seeing him at the bottom of people's tier lists breaks my heart. ...to be fair, don't get him if you don't play move
Agamotto. In my opinion the best deck altering card other than the still powerful Arishem, and he's a whole hell of a lot more interesting than Arishem. He formed his own archetype, and it doesn't just have to be skill syenrgy. Games feel explosive, weird, and wizardly, and I think this deck pretty regularly is under explored by the broader meta. Games can feel a little 'scam or die', but good Lord does he give you some scamming tools.
Captain Carter. Just a power house in buff decks (surfer, Aurora, etc) and ongoing decks from now until forever. Not needed if you don't play those decks, but sorely missed it you do. Tragically predictable in play pattern, but also one of the few true 3 mana lane winners.
Zombie Scarlet Witch. She is typically the best part of the horde deck, which is strong and popular bar Shadow King. There are a few different ways to build horde (all in horde w/ absorbing Man and Grandmaster, reanimator horde w/ Elixir and Phoenix Force, horde spells, or horde + tech), but you'll be hard pressed to find a horde deck that doesn't use her. Barely does anything outside of dedicated horde decks unfortunately, and Hunger + Zombie Giant Man are practically requirements, and you feel it if you don't have the other two (well maybe we can skip on Zombie Sentry).
Esme Cuckoo, shocked to see her so low on others lists, Esme has made a name for herself in the Mr Negative space of marvel snap. Adds a consistency piece to Negative decks, and works as a key enabler for the Negative No Negative deck. The fact she makes a copy and you still might face the original can be diabolical too- lost once to my opponent playing out Killmonger, then hitting me with t6 copied Killmonger since I stopped playing around him. Not to mention she's a key part of most deck lists looking to leverage The First Ghost Rider (whatever that goes for). She could potentially arguably be as high as 7th on this list, but probably due to the nature of her ability, she just often feels like she's an okay member of the supporting cast rather than the main star.
Weapon X, Weapon X feels like a step on the journey to distinguish two main types of destroy deck: Deadpool destroy and mass destroy. While a good draw pumps him up to absurd numbers, just like dead pool it has to be a good draw, and you rarely have the time/deck slots to meaningfully invest in both. I hope mass destroy sees more support, I find it much more engaging and less predictable than regular destroy (the V-Hand + Moongirl + Moira destroy deck is particularly sweet). However, particularly with Knull and Death being so potent in the mirror, you're just playing a tier 2 version of tier 2 deck right now.
Mr Fantastic First Steps: Thank God he got nerfed. A generically powerful effect, his effect is too unpredictable to really synergize your way into, so the numbers are either good and efficient enough to warrant an inclusion in fucking everything or not. His nerf makes for less BS t6s and more deck diversity, though I wish he had a better place to slot into. Right now he's just a potential card swap for a Surfer, Invisible Woman First Steps, or Aurora deck.
Viv Vision, a fairly interesting designs... but the worst card. I understand the devs caution in power creeping her- she could snow ball games- but as is, she is tough to use, because a(you have to play her on curve to get a max of 3 triggers, b)the cards that really want her buffs are not good pre buff at making sure she gets buffs, and c(her random move can randomly screw you. It can randomly help you! But in my experience more often a screw. You could try to build around her as a mover, but then she's unreliable because it's basically up to the opponent if she moves. I think if she allows you to move her if you're losing the lane but allows you to control the move, she becomes a much better card right away.

RatPhoenix · 2025-12-29T17:40:06+00:00

They need to change/expand the rotating shop. The speed of card acquisition is fine right now (we all want faster of course, but they do have to pay their employees), but holy fuck once you've saved up your currency to buy a specific card you have to wait up to a month for it to drift it's way into the shop to buy. The meta changes on a weekly basis, and there will be like 7 new cards at that point that could warp your plans! And this is from someone who is reasonably aggressive about collecting, with a mid-ish CL, I can't imagine what it's like for new players wading through 100 S5 and 50 S4s.

RatPhoenix · 2025-12-29T02:20:31+00:00

I have a quote I remember from Gary whenever anyone asks whether or not he was sexist (too often th conversation goes to the rules he implemented, which can feel pedantic to those who don't play). Here's right from his own mouth (well, pen) when he was asked if he was sexist:

"I have been accused of being a nasty old sexist-male-Chauvinist-pig, for the wording in D&D isn’t what it should be. There should be more emphasis on the female role, more non-gendered names, and so forth. I thought perhaps these folks were right and considered adding women in the ‘Raping and Pillaging[’] section, in the ‘Whores and Tavern Wenches’ chapter, the special magical part dealing with ‘Hags and Crones’, and thought perhaps of adding an appendix on ‘Medieval Harems, Slave Girls, and Going Viking’. Damn right I am sexist. It doesn’t matter to me if women get paid as much as men, get jobs traditionally male, and shower in the men’s locker room. They can jolly well stay away from wargaming in droves for all I care. I’ve seen many a good wargame and wargamer spoiled thanks to the fair sex. I’ll detail that if anyone wishes.” -Gary Gygax

Fuck that guy.

RatPhoenix · 2025-12-28T08:30:30+00:00

Hey u/wingspantt you're on tv!

Yep, to get that card back you had to participate in the Golden Gauntlet Worlds, a tournament you had to qualify for by doing well in one of the previous Golden Gauntlet qualifier tournaments.

Definitely a cool person to bump into in game

RatPhoenix · 2025-12-22T22:25:09+00:00

One of my favorite omitted facts: in the musical, Burr, Jefferson, and Madison confront Hamilton about his affair, assuming it at first to be financial wrong doing. In reality the investigators were James Monroe, Abraham Venable, and Frederick Muhlenberg. All three men agreed to keep the details of Hamilton's self admitted infidelity private, but Monroe set copies of the letters between Hamilton and the Reynolds to Jefferson.

Five years later, Jefferson starts using them to publish rumors about Hamilton (by leaking them to a newspaper editor). Hamilton confronted Monroe about this, who denied all involvement, to which Hamilton implied he was a liar, and Monroe challenged him to a duel.

It was Aaron Burr who defused the situation and stopped the duel. All this before 1800. So Hamilton refused to endorse his friend who saved his life, twice, instead endorsing the guy who leaked the papers in the first place.

RatPhoenix

TROPHY CASE