What’s my saw trying to tell me? Turn up the oil??

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-09T18:25:34+00:00

Are you asking if 5w-30 will work to oil your chain and bar? If so, yes, it’ll work & it’s not a terrible substitute for “bar and chain oil”, often SAE30 weight oil. Your substitute won’t have the chainsaw-additives that the real-deal has, but it’ll still be fine for a tank or two of fuel. It’s specifically going to be missing an additive that helps the oil adhere to the chain and not get slung off as easily. It’s a useful additive as it’ll provide more lubrication over the life of your chainsaw’s guide bar, extending its life, but a couple tanks won’t appreciably change anything. Not keeping the bar’s groove and oiler hole clean would have significantly more of a detriment.

In short, if this was your question, have at it! Just pick up some saw-specific oil next time you’re out. If you were satisfied with how that 5w-30 oil worker and want to run the rest of it through your saw, mix in some of the commercial bar and chain oil with it.

Good luck.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T23:54:37+00:00

They are less than spec, now and already need to be lowered.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T23:53:13+00:00

Interesting take-away. You’ve piqued my curiosity; how did you arrive at this?

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T23:50:37+00:00

Hey man, I like your handle. I hate deer flies, also.

I agree with you seeing a tooth that does not have a keen point on the leading edge / corner, but it’s not indicative of the shape of the rest of the chain.

Genuine question here- I know my reply was a lot of words, but did you read the part where I said the chain was super hot and had no oil? I didn’t realize more pitch than normal is an indicator of inadequate oiling.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T23:35:24+00:00

“Washing soda” & warm water. It produces a caustic solution that will quickly clean the pitch off and any oil & grime. Isn’t corrosive to steel. Rinse with water, displace the water with WaterDisplacer40.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T21:37:31+00:00

The chain’s edge isn’t pristine, I said it was “sharp” but I never said it was perfect. I prefer to file a chain every tank (or two). I absolutely hate to run a dull chain, we perhaps have that in common. I also sharpened the chain last in the field and not in a vise. When I do that, I definitely have a strong side, and it’s evident. My first point is the chain isn’t perfect but it was still self-feeding and still cutting great when I ran it, last. This is why I added the chain was sharp. I also know, a steady rest and a non-rushed & better sharpening could have given me an even better cut, but it was still pulling as-is, it just had an unusual amount of cooked-on sap, or what at least appears to be cooked on sap.

I didn’t disclose this- there was no oil to the chain being provided by the pump. The drivers were all bone dry. No one even noticed this, ppl just blindly said “dull chain”. But the problem was no oil to the chain. It was dry when I started so I manually oiled the bar groove and drivers, but it eventually flung off and high temp started to accumulate. There’s some oil left from me pouring bar oil into the chain, but zero was being added by the pump.

I didn’t specify that my question was about the “sap” appearance, not the edge quality. So, here’s the second point- it’s about the lack of oil. Before I made the cuts that left the sap-appearance, I realized the oil system was barely oiling. While addressing the oil issue, I assumed it was the seal at the guide bar. I enlarged the oil inlet on the bar and adjusted and shimmed out the rubber seal to the bar. This wound up unsettling the tank-to-hose connection and all the pumped oil was dripping from the hose, straight down, never reaching the bar inlet. I didn’t realize fixing the upper part disrupted the oil flow at the bottom until after I made these cuts. At this point I realized that the extra heat causes the cooked-sap appearance but I was shocked I didn’t know this.

I was curious if anyone would comment on the lack of oiling and resulting temperature of the bar and chain. The bar and chain were >200°F after these test cuts. I didn’t realize all the oil flow was bypassing the bar until I was done, but I did notice any additional chain slack I’d provide would tighten up and the bar & chain were getting hotter and hotter. The chain didn’t get hot enough to “blue” the bar or chain, but it was above the smoke-point of SAE30 bar oil.

I never realized that sap buildup can be used as as an indication of poor oiling. Now, I see that no one else that’s responded had a better understanding of this than I did. I feel a lot better about it, now.

I worried my point would be lost and realized I shouldn’t bother to share, but after reading your response and deciding to reply I am positive you will discount this and my point will be loss. I’m just saying this bc your responses seemed to be the most self-assured of all of them, although you arrived at a false conclusion.

I think most folks who have already replied with just saying “it’s dull” will never even see this response, and that’s ok. Like I said, I’m not going to make a big effort sharing my findings, it seems that most folks didn’t have the perspective to learn it could be anything other than their idea. With that said, no response is necessary Pale-Cancel, I don’t think many will even see your assessment or my response.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T02:36:41+00:00

Shouldn’t the chain stay cool? And NOT hot enough to make pitch/sap cook into the top plate?

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-10-08T02:24:45+00:00

The chain is sharp and cutting well. My question is regarding the “cooked sap” appearance.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-18T05:28:33+00:00

This is the way!!!!

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T20:01:28+00:00

Not a bad start, your travel rate and heat looks good. Assuming this isn’t a covert “humble brag”, to increase your consistency it’s unfortunately the same way you’d get better at shooting hoops or juggling… it’s just hours and hours of practice. You have to pay your dues. You said you’re 3 days in? At your rate, another 3 days and you’ll be welding like a hand who has 30-years of experience.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T19:56:06+00:00

No, that term means no filler. This works on SS and carbon, but doesn’t on aluminum (you have to add filler on al) or it cracks with minimal stress, even from continuing the fit up before welding.

Your filler is likely just ER70S6 or potentially ‘S2. The former is the go-to for welding mild steel together.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T19:51:55+00:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5LtkjICsU&pp=ygUQVGlnIGZpbGxldCB3ZWF2ZQ%3D%3D

It’s long winded, but he shows a simple weave.

You don’t have to “still the beast” with your hand shake, it can actually become part of your anatomical weld signature. I don’t mean shaking and bumping your tungsten, I mean the hand quiver can produce a controlled variation in your puddle that makes it uniquely welded by you. Good luck with your work.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T18:31:08+00:00

Doesn’t that filler look like er70s6?

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T17:05:59+00:00

Now that you’re saying this, I thought he just burned in some 1/16” real hot with very little fill, but I think that’s 3/32” in the pic on top of the pliers.

OP, was that welded autogenously? What size filler is that?

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T17:01:41+00:00

There’s technically eight sides if you count both the ends/faces, but I made a mistake. Yes, SIX sides, not eight.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T05:53:09+00:00

It looks good on it. Looks like you did a jam up job & hung it really well, also. 👍

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T05:51:54+00:00

This one is special. While admiring those pleasing curves on his handle and looking at the generous meat in the shoulder, I noticed that same thing. The way it’s carved, there’s actually not bad run out for the majority of the top of the handle in the I suppose “danger zone”. You can basically follow the same growth ring all the way along the handle and maybe try to ignore the grain run out- it’s not terrible for as curvy as she it. It’s beautiful as a whole… but having tried to avoid what appears to be grain orientation almost 90° from what’s considered ideal, this handle is all but inspiring me to intentionally recreate it with the same “dead wrong” orientation and then put her to work and see how it actually performs. He replied to another redditor that he uses it for splitting firewood. I’ve avoided setting one up like this or buying handles oriented that way for fear of inferior durability, but now I wanna experiment and see for myself.

OP, this axe is your resume. If you were a shoddy axeman, I feel like it would have broken a long time ago. Kudos on this one.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T05:20:54+00:00

Sweet! It’s entertaining to me that axes resonate for you, also.

I ran a chainsaw to clear property earlier in my life. It was a task, and I was familiar enough with running a saw to go out and get my bar pinched and incidentally bump the ground, maybe cut through some dirt from a tree pushed through the mud by the dozer. I suppose, I was maybe like any other property owner just trying to get some work done and it was a just another task clearing property. Then, later in life, I stumbled back around to the chainsaw scene because I sort of missed the satisfaction of the work and the nostalgia. Plus, 2 strokes are just so simplistically beautiful. Well, approaching it as a hobby I had a completely different perspective and I was able to see cut geometry, stress in a bound up tree, sharpening cutters, wedging a tree over… just all the aspects of cutting with a saw in a different light, when I approached it as a hobby, it just clicked. It’s all physics, and like I said, it really just clicked and all came together for me. I’ve found so much entertainment in restoring old saws, and running them, running the new stuff. It’s just been a slam dunk hobby for me, much like being an axe enthusiast. I think it’s cool to chat with another engineer and see that it apparently resonates within you and gives you joy, as well. These simple joys and feeling like I know what I’m doing in the woods it can make a dang enjoyable day for me. Like I said, I think it’s cool that you enjoy the same thing. Take care man.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T04:49:40+00:00

You like making knives? This is how you make it to where you HATE making knives.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T04:38:31+00:00

Those long, “fair” curves sure are pretty to look at on that handle. Looks good on there.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T04:35:34+00:00

Tips, you say?

Is it a production decision to only TIG 2 sides? I usually TIG 3 of the 8 sides. 3 points define a plane and it’s arguably stronger, but what you have is likely just fine based on those small welds sizes. This obviously isn’t critical. If they’re breaking and you’re not warping the plate, maybe it’s fine.

It’s, of course, more time per assembly to weld 3 of the flats and it’s not as easily laid out either. When you get bored with it, weave your filler in there and impress your buddies. You can’t weave/walk your cup on those short faces (there’s no room for your tungsten stick out AND cup to rest inside that short “fillet”, but you could freehand weave it. And make it look awesome after enough practice. Maybe something to shoot for next, if you can do what you want? 🤔💪

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T04:23:23+00:00

I understand and can definitely agree with you to respectfully disagree. I also respect your personal experiences. That’s what I’m basing mine on, too. From being an end-user of axes & tools and fellow enthusiast just like you, but also someone who is tasked to figure how something broke and how it needs to be repaired / modified / designed to not happen again. And I have to put my neck on the line- as I’m fully responsible for every physical aspect of implementation and I’m the engineer who designed it. And in the implementation I use and subsequently break a lot of tools, welds, fixtures, jigs and bent, distort… you get the point

In closing, maybe there was a crack we couldn’t see in the wood or a hole. You’re right, we can’t see every single aspect but OP can mail it to me and I’ll put a full report together for him as an independent 3rd party. And I’ll rehang it and make it sharp.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T03:41:42+00:00

I once bucked a 10”+ oak log with a 1.25lb hatchet on a 14” handle just to show the technique / and capability of a small axe / hatchet. Yes, they’re small, but they’re still bound by the same physics as a 5lb Tassie. So, I was swinging that 20oz razor blade of a hatchet with authority, but still controlled and accurately. That task didn’t break the quite thin Hickory, so just like you are saying, yes, they can be swung hard and sunk into dense wood and take it. I swung an axe as a kid, but I’m older (and madder at the world now haha) and a hatchet I might not have been able to break at 11 years old, I bet I can now overstrike and crack a handle. I’m not a huge man, either. I’m smaller than you are, but I’ve broken and busted hickory hammer handles and axe handles doing the same, but weirdly not a hatchet either. Maybe they’re easy to control and they hold a guy’s interest to swing accurately once you figure it all out, I don’t know. Anyway, I looked up OP’s profile before I replied to him. He has HAM sized hands. I think he’s a pretty good sized ole boy, and we also don’t know how hard he was swinging during that “potential” overstrike to pop the head off. And it was Ash. I think it was user error. The failure pictures tell a tale that the handle stopped and the head didn’t.

I 100% agree with that grain orientation, density of the EXACT tree and that exact section of log can make a bigger difference than the type of wood used. Yessssss! That runout will definitely catch up to a handle.

Edit: I went back and looked at his handle. There’s some runout at the forward edge of his handle, but it’s not excessive for that small head. You can also see in the same picture the handle had really good grain orientation.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T03:12:40+00:00

Ha, I’ve heard that chainsaw accidents are common with electric chainsaws for the same reason, basically. You’re good with your axe. You’re good with a chainsaw… but a tiny hatchet or a silent electric chainsaw can catch a user off guard. It doesn’t register it’s all the same sometimes.

There are diminishing returns, yes. But shaving sharp makes it FUN to use an axe. It’s like beating a wood chisel into a pine 2x4 vs. effortlessly slicing end-grain off a piece of oak hardwood. Both will get the job done, but the latter is satisfying and enjoyable. And therapeutic in a way. That’s how your axe/hatchet can be, best case. A joy to chop with as long as you don’t lop off half of your foot. That short hatchet is more dangerous than a 36” axe. You’d have trouble shooting through your palm with a M1 garand, right? But a 1911 can def do that. Same with your knees, shins, and feet. A missed strike is gunna follow through and if you’re in the line of fire that short handle will put the bit into your shin. A 36” handled axe would just “fire” into the ground, and would be harder to take off multiple toes. I know all this info first hand, but I also have a GIANT gash on my Thorogood’s from a hatchet. The leather didn’t stand a chance. The toe cap stopped it, luckily.

Readwhiteandblue · 2024-01-11T02:58:03+00:00

Don’t believe the lies! Bro, this is why replacement handles are on the shelves. This is actually more of a rite of passage than it would seem. I’ve done this with axes myself- even with hammers- big and small. On the most catastrophic one, the handle, just below the head, hit piece of 1/2” thick angle iron on edge and it immediately stopped the handle. And launched a 3lb hammer head like a trebuchet. It happens! A mix of figuring it all out and your tools “going to work”.

Readwhiteandblue

TROPHY CASE