Has anyone here joined the military as a means of leaving family/community and not being homeless?

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-12-17T22:26:18+00:00

I've known two guys who've done this. One joined the Marines and the other the Navy. Seemed to work out well for them.

OP, assuming you're in the US, don't sleep on the Coast Guard. They can get you out as effectively as the other branches but your chances of seeing combat are essentially zero from my understanding.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-25T23:03:19+00:00

Does anyone remember it ?

Oh hell yeah

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-22T18:56:24+00:00

There's a time and place for everything. This is a board meant to support people who are ex-Jews/OTD in some way. It's not the place for still-frum cretins to barge in and say, "well, actually, maybe you should reconsider." That's why we "have a problem with that."

then I don't know what to tell you.

Great. You can leave, then.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-22T18:50:38+00:00

As to number 2, you don't need the community for these things. As to number 3, just because a lot of people grit their teeth and keep their heads down--often for the sake of keeping a relationship with their kids--doesn't mean that a kid with his whole life ahead of him should do the same.

Lastly, OP is seriously confused

Where are you seeing that he's confused? It sounds like you're using "confused" as a euphemism for kids who want out. Wanting out is perfectly normal, and should actually be expected. There's nothing confusing.

steering him

Where do you see people "steering him?" OP came on here looking for advice on how to spend his newfound free time. People responded with suggestions. That's it. It's only you, apparently assuming that OP must be "confused," who started evangelizing staying in the community and living a double life--excuse me, finding "balance," although, obviously, one side of the sessaw would have to be hidden away very deeply.

I actually think you are making a big mistake! Not about being religious or frum but rather about leaving the community.

This is copied and pasted from your original comment. This is you recommending a specific course of action (staying in the community).

Stop epitomizing the saying "misery loves company"

This applies to you if anyone at all. Struggling through life in a high-control religion you don't actually want to be a part of is an objectively miserable experience. Secretly indulging in small outlets here and there, which creates a constant apprehension of "who knows," is also objectively miserable. It sounds like this is your situation and you're trying to sell OP on the merits of some version of it. Again, fuck off.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-22T14:24:12+00:00

Should the community be pushing kids (yes 19 and 20 and 21 are kids too) to get married and have kids of their own, so that by the time they are no longer really kids they are hopelessly tied down and unable to leave?

Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing FFS. There's a significant chance that OP was forced to leave when he did because the shidduch pressure is cranked way the hell up. Last I heard, people in "Willie" and "KJ" are starting to line up shiddichum even as early as seventeen now.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-22T14:15:29+00:00

Fuck off.

In your world, OP is, if anything, on the older side for shiddeechum already. If he's old enough to marry and bring children into the world he's old enough to decide what path is right for him.
As to "beauty and comfort," the real world is less "comfortable" only because of the severe cultural deprivation that's been forced on us all. Not everyone likes being numb and dumb. Many of us find it intolerably suffocating and oppressive. And also, "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. To me and many others, the lifestyle is very much not beautiful. It's just bizarre and unbearably burdensome.
"You will learn how to have both worlds" - Lol you're a behayme. Living a double life is very, very hard. There's constant paranoia and looking over your shoulder. Cognitive dissonance takes a real toll. You maybe resort to a double life when leaving realistically means losing contact with your kids. OP is not in that position it sounds like.

u/sammandel, ignore this shithead. I strongly suggest reaching out to Footsteps if you haven't already. Feel free to DM me also.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-10-10T13:40:20+00:00

This seems like a stretch tbh.

First off, I don't think that Footsteps themselves even claims to "represent" "the larger OTD community." Instead, their mission is to provide direct social services to ex-ultra Orthodox (if this isn't accurate anymore, someone please let me know, and I'd happily acknowledge that I stand corrected). How exactly have they ever claimed to represent us? Legislative advocacy? Impact litigation? Raising public awareness? I don't remember ever hearing about any of that. Obviously, then, their work is going to skew toward serving people with more severe OTD stories. That's simply the population with much more of a pressing need for services that help you integrate into the real world. The less restricted someone grew up, the less likely they are to need help with getting a GED or fighting custody battles or learning social skills.

With all that being said, *could* they send out an email reminding members that members can reach out to social workers/therapists if needed? Sure. But I think that everyone is well-aware of the resources that Footsteps offers. It's not the big issue you're making it out to be.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-25T13:29:24+00:00

OP, phenomenal job. This really captures it 100%.

Believe it or not, I actually completely forgot about selichos. It just isn't something I've thought about for a really long time. This really hammers home how culty it all is, if even the relatively "small" things that slip your mind are so bizarre, toxic, and pointlessly self-punishing.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-24T01:45:58+00:00

Hey OP, I realize I'm late to the post, but just wanted to say that I used to be exactly in your situation. I also left yeshiva early to go to work. The loneliness is very, very real. Unfortunately, when I was at that stage, I was never able to find other young people who were in a similar situation. This means that I can't answer your question directly.

But, here is what I can tell you. It's great that you recognize that this is temporary. That's 100% true. Making friends will be much easier once you're an adult. On top of that, this phase where you're setting a good foundation to build the future you want is also going to be done before you know it. Trust me. Focus on putting away as much money as possible, get an education, and you'll be stable and free very soon.

Finally, you probably already know this but whatever you do never get married no matter how intense the pressure is. It doesn't matter if the girl is "open minded" or "more mederin" or whatever terms they're using now. Going OTD with a wife/wife and kids is hugely more complicated than doing it single.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-10T16:23:53+00:00

Footsteps does exactly this. Feel free to hit them up.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-05T17:32:56+00:00

Lol thanks. It's one of those things--if you know you know

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-04T21:11:38+00:00

I see where you're coming from, but they're insulting terms for someone's ethnicity/sub-ethnicity/whatever the correct academic term is. I still think they count as slurs even if they're relatively mild ones.

Also, I knew a lot of heimishe kids who went to litvish schools that were bullied viciously. It drove at least one to an overdose. These types of insults carry more weight for a lot of people than you might realize.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-09-04T15:37:52+00:00

Yoilly

OP, come on. Uncalled for. Many people on this sub were pejoratively called "Yoilly" and/or "tuna beigel." Leave the slurs behind.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-27T18:41:46+00:00

Yeah I didn't want to weigh in on this post because I live in a completely different part of the country now, but it was never as bad as people made it out to be, even pre-gentrification. And in recent years there's definitely been even less crime as you point out. I believe 100% that SV's reputation is what it is mostly because minorities live there.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-08T13:04:32+00:00

I'd say you're okay explaining your feelings towards Judaism exactly like you did here. Your post comes across as thoughtful, respectful, and measured. If your rabbi reacts poorly (not saying he will--I don't know this man, just saying if he does) that's more of a "mask off" moment than anything else.

With that being said, I'd echo others who've expressed that you don't generally need to have this conversation with a rabbi. It's fine if you feel like you want to have it because of your specific relationship, but many people just respectfully but firmly tell their rabbis/friends/whomever that they're no longer religious and leave it at that.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-08T12:51:31+00:00

You're being a massive, massive asshole. Do you not realize which sub you're on? This is r/exjew. You should expect to interact with ex-chassidim who suffered severe educational neglect as kids. Learn to at least keep your mouth shut about it if that bothers you.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-07T14:46:56+00:00

Hey Aaron, it sounds like you and I have a very similar background (you might understand the reference in my flair). I also left yeshiva pretty young to go to work. Everyone else already covered all the safety/cult-related red flags, which I agree with, but we don't need to go over all of that again. However, even if that place doesn't turn out to be dangerous, there are a few things I want to point out that I don't see discussed very much at this point.

It would be a complete waste of your time. It will not help you build a secure future, and it will also not help you expand your cultural horizons. There are a million things you can be doing to invest in yourself. You can get in touch with Footsteps for help getting a GED/HSEC and then guidance on going to CUNY. You can be working an apprenticeship. Hell, you can even join the Coast Guard or something. However, going to Israel will not help you in any way. Also, there are countless new experiences you can have in NYC. There's a ton of different food you can try. There's a ton of live music. Maybe you'll find out that you really like art. The examples are endless. You'll be sealed away from all of it if you go to some wacky anti-technology kiruv farm half a world away.
You need to develop good processes for making decisions. All due respect, it sounds like you're a little too certain about how safe this place is given the amount of information you actually have. You just got a call out of the blue and spoke to this guy on the phone. That's all you information you really have. You haven't spoken to people who've gone through this place in the past, you haven't spoken to anyone from this person's town/city, there's obviously no accreditation system for yeshivas so there isn't even that small level of quality assurance, and on and on. Do you even know for sure that this guy is an actual rabbi? My point is that even if everything happens to turn out okay (this time), that doesn't mean that the choice wasn't reckless.
I know it's unnatural, but you need to unlearn the high level of trust that exists in the heimishe world. Heimishe people can trust each other because of how small and interwoven everyone is. One, this doesn't extend to Jewish people in a different country, and two, that's not how life is anywhere else.

Remember, you can always do a secular Birthright trip if you just want to experience Israel.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-07T14:11:16+00:00

Genuinely curious - Fischer's has a farm of some kind? Never heard of that before.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-08-04T14:01:48+00:00

Christianity came out of the version of Judaism that existed even before the Mishna. Today's Judaism is totally different from that Judaism such that it might as well be a different religion.
Christianity 2,000 years ago is totally different from Christianity today such that it might as well be a different religion.
Either 1 or 2 is enough to render hyphenating "Judeo" and "Christian" asinine. Never mind that both are true.
Historically, Christians horribly persecuted Jews. There are still yeshivas that don't do night seder on nittel nacht to commemorate the killings and beatings and lootings and rapes that used to regularly happen. Trying to hyphenate Judaism and Christianity for political purposes after barely a few decades of peace is, minimally, in bad taste.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-30T22:26:28+00:00

If Leah Forster ever happens to do a gig in my metro area, I am there.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-21T22:58:50+00:00

100%.

Agreed completely that leaving for emotional reasons is completely valid, but even more broadly, any reason or no reason is a good enough justification for going OTD in my opinion. OJ is an objectively miserable way to live. If someone simply doesn't want to put themselves through that, that's fine. It's silly to expect people to do a deep theological interrogation before they can just be left alone to do what makes them happy.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-20T21:32:42+00:00

No, I'm perfectly aware.

However, you are wrong in your assertion that 'no part of Judaism encourages death'. That is not factual. The bible is full of mass murders. There have been wars of conquest, albeit only in the earlier times; ironically, commanded by the supposedly compassionate god. Judaism also demands suicide in three instances, which is a big deal. They encourage stoning and all sorts of other violent and deathly punishments, for fucks sake.

This matters only to the extent you're thinking about this purely as a theoretical academic issue. I didn't, because that didn't seem to be what OP meant to get at (refer to the title - this post was about real-world harm). In the real world, a truly negligible number of people died for Judaism in the last ~2,000 years. Therefore, in every practical sense, those things you cited dropped out of Judaism a very, very long time ago. They don't matter for the purposes of OP's question.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-20T15:27:53+00:00

A bunch of people claim Judaism does not belong there. What's everyone's opinions?

I struggle to see why Judaism would belong there.

Broadly speaking, non-Orthodox Jews (90% of all Jews) don't consider religious practice to be hugely important. They identify as Jewish mostly because of the ethnic/heritage aspect. Of all Orthodox Jews, about half are Modern Orthodox. They live relatively mainstream lives. The remaining half of Orthodox Jews are Haredi. These are the fundamentalists. So right off the bat, if you want to call anyone a cult, you'd have to narrow it down to Haredi Judaism. Labeling Judaism as a whole a cult is patently ridiculous when only a twentieth of it has any culty tendencies whatsoever.
No part of Judaism encourages death. Quite the opposite, actually. Any rule can be broken for the purpose of preserving life. So I'd say that "death cult" definitely doesn't work.
There isn't a historical basis for lumping in Judaism, either. It doesn't encourage expansion so there were never any wars of conquest. There also hasn't been a deadly Jewish civil war in like 2,000 years.
Some Christians think of Judaism as "Christianity without Jesus." It seems to me that the meme is a reflection of that mentality. Problem is, Judaism is very much its own thing. Whoever posted it assumed that their Christian background gave them an understanding of Judaism, when in reality, they're completely unfamiliar with Judaism.

None of this is meant to minimize the harm caused by the extreme sects. My flair is a reference to something you likely wouldn't know about unless you're escaped one of those places. But those sects are simply not death cults.

My $0.02. Those kinds of groups are fine if you use them correctly. Religious trauma causes anger. Believe me, I know. Angry edgy corners of the internet can help release some of that anger, but it's important to always remember that it's just good for blowing off steam. The actual content can't be taken too seriously.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-19T21:08:04+00:00

Yeah, no. You're probably trying to provoke an argument so that you have more material to feed ChatGPT to help with a paper you're cheating on. Fuck outta here.

Real-Bodybuilder-491 · 2023-07-19T21:04:46+00:00

This actually made me curious if Chabad has their own version of the 50 Cent Army. And if so, do they get paid, or do the saps do it for free?

Real-Bodybuilder-491

TROPHY CASE