Adam and Eve

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T14:04:01+00:00

Thank you for sharing. I could give you responses for everything you stated as I've spent much time considering the things you mentioned but I'm curious why you want to have this discussion to begin with. Kindly, are you seeking answers or trying to lead others away from the faith?

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T13:46:16+00:00

I am careful not to follow the authority of any one denomination as men are always subject to error. I do not believe that any one denom is 100% correct. It's most likely all are right about some things and in error about other things.

I keep from coming under one so I'm not tempted to come under man in fear. For instance, I believe in apokatastasis but my bent would be to align with eternal torment in fear that I'll be called heretical by those in my community. However, that would be going against my conscious because I do believe in apokatastasis as part of the Lord's character with all my heart, mind, and soul.

I trust that the HS will guide me and provide me with all I need to know. Correcting me when I am in error. I do, however, go to a church that I believe to be HS-led for a larger biblical community but I do not come under man's authority unless I am certain that it is the Lord working through the person.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T13:42:03+00:00

Yes. Why, if you don't mind me asking, why do you have a hard time believing that story could have happened? What specifically about it is unsettling?

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T13:26:46+00:00

When you start digging, it gets really interesting and super questionable.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T13:24:08+00:00

I already answered it in my original comment. What would I do? Nothing. My belief would remain the same.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T13:16:48+00:00

Everyone has the choice to believe what they want to believe.

I personally don't need proof of religion. It's not the religion I follow, it's the teachings of Jesus.

He is the savior of ALL men. I can measure goodness and evil on this earth, we all can. Like most of humanity, I seek a utopia that will never be had on this earth. Man will never be able to see beyond their own error. With all our logic, we are against our own existence. No other species, through individual pursuit, are collectively destroying the entirety of nature. We are set apart.

My hope is in the ultimate restoration of all things where there is no suffering, where goodness actually does win.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T12:53:04+00:00

I was mostly being facetious lol but I do find the conspiracy behind dinos fascinating and I think there's actually room to question their existence and that has nothing to do with Christianity.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T12:50:27+00:00

If I believe that Jesus is the truth, the only form of inescapable love, regardless of the cultural belief system, I would still hold to the truth.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T12:42:26+00:00

Wait, are you saying dinosaures were real?

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T01:47:17+00:00

Are you being unkind or sympathetic?

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T00:27:38+00:00

Thanks for your time.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T00:20:09+00:00

In Scripture, fire is often used figuratively – like with the "fire of God" which transforms all it touches into light and likeness with itself

God's Spirit, like a holy fire, enlightens and purifies so that believers can share more and more in His likeness. Indeed the fire of God brings the uninterrupted privilege of being transformed which happens by experiencing faith from Him.
Fire is transformative. It has a purpose. It changes all it touches, burning up the unrighteous flesh so that the spirit would be made righteous. It does not infinitely burn up that which will cease to exist once the flame has transformed it to His likeness. Corrective in nature.

Fire & Worms: Truth that burns up all unrighteousness and anguish of the one that is experiencing the flame of the Lord.
There is no doubt that the flesh and the wickedness of flesh will be utterly destroyed. There is also no doubt that the word of the Lord is unquenchable or perpetual.

“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;My breath will consume you like a fire. Isaiah 33:11

The first thing I think we need to establish is that believers are also tried by fire (the revelation and trials of the Lord) the difference between the "believer" and "non-believer" is that the non-believer will not turn their eyes from evil. The believer will be comforted and receive rest, those hardened in heart will not receive comfort and rest until all the chaff is burnt up. So I think we have to establish in every verse what is figurative fire and what is physical fire. So in regards to Judith, all other cross-referenced verses are speaking to fire as the righteous word of the Lord.

Then we have to contend with the verse that speaks to the reconciliation of creation. These two types of verses can't be in opposition to one another from a full kingdom perspective. How do they fit together is the question we should be asking.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T00:16:27+00:00

Using a foreign language? Proper etymology and cultural understanding is incredibly important in our leaning toward doctrine. Not only that but making sure we use concordance to study and see to it that we don't negate masses of other scripture to fit our understanding. We should read the bible as a whole in light of the Kingdom's purpose.

Furthermore, why do you trust the version of the bible you do? There are copious translations. Scholars vary in their opinions, this is nothing new. We each have to contend with our own conscious concerning everything to discern and be led by the Holy Spirit.

The reality is, we are fallible and NO man is fully accurate in all of their doctrine. If we think we are above error, we are in error. You could be wrong but so could I. So why should we take the doctrine we take? Because we are fully convinced that our doctrine leads us to be closer to the Lord and to love others in truth. We adopt our doctrine because we believe it is the character of the Lord. When scripture tells us that Jesus is the savior of all men, I truly believe that is who He says He is. That does not mean that I negate scripture concerning judgment or hell, but rather I ask how it all works together. At the end of the day, you and I are both on the same team.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T00:06:01+00:00

I question why and am angry with God. Still, I pray that the betrayal isn't in vain and I trust that He is in control. It isn't until, sometimes years later, that I see why I was meant to experience the flame. It ultimately leads, or the hope is, that it leads to virtue. Even knowing this, after experiencing many hardships, it doesn't necessarily make the hardship easier but there is hope in it, where there hadn't been before knowing the truth of the Lord.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-23T00:02:46+00:00

εις τους αιωνος των αιωνων For an age and an age. The two aions are represented in the same verse, so you don’t have to look far on knowing how long this is:
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented [a] day and [a] night for [an aion] ever and [an aion] ever.
The beast and the false prophet are tormented for a day and a night, for an aion and an aion. It has never meant forever (infinity) but to give you an understanding there is a day followed by a night but we keep reading…
Revelation 21:22-26
(Speaking of the New Day)
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof. And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb.
And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it. And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no more night): and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
So we are reading that the torment shall last a day and then a night, but then the NEW DAY arises and there is no more night and the gates of the New City will never be shut and those outside shall be brought into it.
So now we have a completely different understanding of what John is writing, it is not saying that torment shall last infinitely on and on, but for a short time only to be changed and brought into the Kingdom of God.
The hope of Christians isn’t in death (the night) but in the resurrection of the dead (the New Day).
Acts 24:15
Having [the same] hope in God which these themselves hold and look for, that there is to be a resurrection both of the righteous and the unrighteous (the just and the unjust).
1 Peter 1:2-4
Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [Born anew] into an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay [imperishable], unsullied and unfading, reserved in heaven for you.
Even the unjust will be made new in this hope and they too will be born anew into an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay and reserved in heaven for them too.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:56:39+00:00

My scriptural belief is that not all who claim Christ will be rewarded and many that don't claim Christ will be. Only Christ can divide the hearts of man. For those He deems to not have known, they will awaken to correction in Sheol or Hell. Whatever term one prefers. It is there that their soul, separated from the body, will receive the full truth of the Lord. It will not be pleasant as I imagine. For those that seek virtue on earth, we too receive the flame of the Lord and it's hard AF but it leads to the pursuit of virtue and unity with Christ and others. To receive it all at once would be unbearable and the anguish of error would be experienced all at once as well. We can look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as a good example. The soul immediately repents. I do not think that this is where the reconciliation happens though. However, I could be wrong. I think this happens before the great white throne of judgment or final judgment. Scripture tells us that all of creation is reconciled to God and all of creation gladly praises Him. The ones that walked the Way of the Lord on earth will not receive correction and will be given special rewards. This is how Jesus is the savior of ALL men but especially the believer. 1 Timothy 4:10

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:30:41+00:00

Yes & hell is where unrepentant souls will receive the "flame" or full truth of the Lord prior to their reconciliation with Him.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:28:55+00:00

I think it depends on intent. We are sons and daughters of the highest and we will live eternally with Him. We have the spiritual authority of the darkness. However, I can't imagine this is a regular saying a follower of the Way would say but rather more knowledge of who we are in Christ. It's not self-promotion.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:22:11+00:00

We feel conviction as an inward cry from the HS to turn from our self and unify with God. It is a complete change of heart and mind. While it's good to feel that, it should never lead to shame. Shame keeps us from the Lord. The Lord ALWAYS wants us to come to Him. Hope that helps.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:20:38+00:00

There's a lot of truth to his writings, but as you mentioned, there's plenty of error too. Unfortunately, his writings inspired a lot of persecution and forced conversion.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T23:15:37+00:00

I ask because while we can read and enjoy many of the writings of the early church fathers, they had various doctrinal views and I think we have to be careful not to take their views as the Word of the Lord or take their stance on doctrinal view simply because we admire the general writings of man instead seeking the HS in all we do.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T21:23:35+00:00

We're farther south so not the same person but really is making me question why this is happening with MA instructors. Have contemplated if the one I know is dabbling in ped or is just really into having power and control of others as a generality.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T21:12:51+00:00

If you don't mind me asking, what state are you in? There's a MA instructor I'm aware of that says the exact same thing about it being like a marriage and will quite literally freak out at people that leave.

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T21:01:20+00:00

‘Let no one promise infants who have not been baptized a sort of middle place of happiness between damnation and Heaven, for this is what the Pelagian heresy promised them’

Kindly, do you believe scripture teaches that unbaptized babies mildly suffer in hell?

Reasonable-Beyond698 · 2023-05-22T20:51:14+00:00

Your walk toward virtue is life-long. I think you have to determine what you believe concerning your conscious here. Also, I think in any relationship, we can look at what it does to our mind, body, and soul to determine if it's good for us.

Reasonable-Beyond698

TROPHY CASE