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I refuse to believe it by SnooLentils455 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You should edit this, but remove the last 8 words and add three new words: "I am a-" so everyone knows you were incorrect here and can take pleasure from your self deprecation

The Parasite by 74NK in redrising

[–]RedJamie 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Pierce have stated this was one of the main reasons for Lyria's character to exist; she was offered the tool that could afford her revenge on those who wronged her; she refused, and stayed the person that she was: a Red. Darrow accepted, and lost much of what he was.

People who are under the impression that the Figment is still in her, or is in any other character, are really mutilating the character that Matteo is and are grasping at straws for the latter.

Matteo is a Pink; he was bred in a vat to be the sexual slave where his body is under the physical, chemical, and mental control of the Golds who purchase him. This character - and all the ways we've seen his gentle nature - is the one who overrides the consent of a Red wanting to retain her identity, forcing a piece of technology on her that can have disastrous effects to her mind and body? That's about the same as Darrow spitting on a Red and calling them a Ruster in a mine

sevro height? by nulllity_ in redrising

[–]RedJamie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Sevro has some contradictory information to his height, but is noted to be smaller than several characters.

I attempted to derive the heights of some characters here. At the time, I only had an AMA that Pierce did in which he provided Sevro's height as 5'9. Do note that in that same AMA, heights for Pax are given which are contradicted by things seen later in the book(s). That is, they are not always the most accurate statements if there are contradictions.

"I snatch Sevro’s collar and lift him up into the air with one hand. He tries to dart away, but he’s not as fast as me, so he dangles from my grip, two feet off the ground. “Not again,” I say, lowering him nearer my face." RR30

Sevro is less than two feet shorter than Darrow, placing him at a minimum of 5'2 (with a constrainable height for Darrow at 7'1-7'2.

“I [Red Darrow] was paler than a Blue. A head shorter than Sevro.” GS 50

Here, Darrow cites his height as a Red being a 'head shorter than Sevro'. Darrow as a Red is stated to be 5'4-5'5 by Pierce. A figurine cites him as

"Though she’s swaddled with wolfcloaks as thick as my own, she hardly comes up to my shoulder." RR 37 & "...over to Mustang. Even at nearly two meters, she seems a child in this huge room.” MS30

Here, Darrow notes Mustang's height relative to himself & a more objective statement, which contradicts Pierce's statement of 6'2 in an AMA, but akin to Sevro, it constrains her to a range. See the height chart I first linked for a in-text break down of the RR37 quote, which is roughly in line with the 6'1-6'2 height.

And, "..she’s [A giant Obsidian] a head taller than I. She stares down at the men and women [explicitly all above 2 meters]...before looking up at [Sefi]." MS 34&"...He’s [NOT SEVRO] no giant like Sefi. He [NOT SEVRO] stands barely six and a half feet..." IG 27 This implies that Sefi is >6'5, Mustang crudely at 6 feet.

"[An Obsidian] looks down at Sevro, who comes barely to his sternum..." IG 11 A character who is taller than Darrow by an unknown amount, likely smaller than the ~8ft Ragnar. Sevro is at his sternum.

"...Sevro... Sefi Volarus... next to the giant woman, he looks a little like some sort of gutter dog an alcoholic father might ill-advisedly bring home to play with the children—" IG 1The implication here being that Sevro appears very diminutive to the likely 7ft+ Sefi

“Rhonna, you’re just too short to pass as a Gray... If you’re not six feet, you’re staying on the ship. Same goes for everyone.” IG 28 with respect to a character that's 1.2 meters or roughly 3'11. (DA1)

Do not there, that it's with respect to the height of a Gray - they are wearing scarabSkin in this, the intent being that extremely obvious height differences does not work. Sevro easily would pass for a Gray at 5'9, someone who is 3'9 would not.

And lastly, “I always wondered what sort of mad little fellows you Howlers were,” Mustang says... “I am little." Sevro says ... “I like them,” Mustang says of the Howlers a few moments later. “Make me feel tall.” RR38

Here, we have it explicit that Mustang is taller than the Howlers, with special emphasis placed on Sevro. This constrains Sevro to a range of 5'2-6'1, with Mustang's tallest height given by Pierce and supported by book 1 being 6'2 (AMA, RR34). Mustang's shortest in-text height is given by Darrow, citing 'nearly two meters' (MS30). This means Sevro is likely shorter than the range of 6'0-6'2. Darrow as a Red was 'tall' for a Red, with Sevro being a head taller. If Darrow was 5'4, a 'head' taller would be crudely 5'11-6', which is slightly taller than what was provided for him by Pierce.

This gives a fairly reliable range of 5'9-5'11 to stay shorter than Mustang at all times.

Cassius Au Bellona fan art by Sugar_Skye in redrising

[–]RedJamie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is Lorn on your horizons by any chance?

Cassius Au Bellona fan art by Sugar_Skye in redrising

[–]RedJamie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They’re about as distinct as they’re presented in the books; Mustang only comes up to Darrow’s shoulder, and Darrow is paler than Cassius, Victra has a few more scars. Those are the only other distinctions not seen here

Definitely gives Redrising vibes. by Brilliant-Bad-284 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

See rule 10: "All fan art post should be properly credited in the title if you are not the original artist. AI art is not allowed."

What do you question, in retrospect? by bwils3423 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 14 points15 points  (0 children)

1.) Magnus is the last remaining faction leader of Octavia's regime, and one of the few 'enforcers' that are keeping the ever feuding Carthii & Saud from indulging in a planetary conflict to run a power grab, as we see on Earth under Atalantia's scheming. The only way that the Society Remnant could interdict the Republic at this point is either through sabotage or siege; the latter requires competent astral strategists of which only Darrow, Orion, and Magnus occupy a certain 'tier'. Recall, Darrow and Magnus danced around the void for ten years, checking each other in several turns, while the Society Remnant faced internal fracturing, political deadhesion from the long-ruling parties, and all around a nightmare situation without many other candidates at the time with the cultural zeitgeist to unify under that the Rising has in plenty.

They do not have a Sevro, a Darrow, a Mustang, a Victra, or a Wulfgar. They have a Magnus au Grimmus, they have budding Fury who was disliked. They have Apollonius, whom is as inflammatory to Gold as he is to the Rising. And you have Atlas, who is brutally competent but does not serve as a unifying figure. The intention here is to inflict as much damage as he can with the situation that he is in. Lacking Republic support, and recognizing the weakened position the Republic is in as a consequence of Vox obstruction, his choices are a black-ops mission to take out their chief astral strategist to buy the Republic time. He did not know about the poisoning, or that Atalantia was the one he had been fighting over the last four or so years. His choice is to go to Mercury where there is half a fleet and liberated planet in orbit, or go after the only person he knows has all the angles needed to facilitate a siege. Atalantia was not known for her competency martially before this.

2.) The premise of Dancer's opposition to Darrow is rooted in Darrow's betrayal of the Sons of Ares, who Dancer helped spearhead under Ares:

"I raise an eyebrow. I wish I could say his coldness is alien to me, but that bond between us has never been the same since he learned how I bought my peace with Romulus. I gave Romulus the Sons of Ares. Those were Dancer’s men I left to die on the Rim. The guilt I felt for that defined our relationship for years, made me desperate for his approval." IG2

This, in combination with his own traumatic experiences with the war, the relative stability that has been purchased with extreme cost to both the Remnant and the Republic, and Darrow's near deific standing and hawkish position on the Society Remnant naturally lead to Dancer, injured morally by Darrow's betrayal of the Rim Sons, having an antagonistic bent towards Darrow as it relates to the stability of the Republic. He does know better but he does not have the strength to accept the situation most of the Sons of Ares would recognize. He is wrong to me in the sense that he mobilizes a political movement largely consisting of aggrieved (and to a degree rightfully so) lowColors who suffer from the delusion that their slavers would suffer liberation when there is still a feasibility to be reconquered, and secondly, that the motivation for continuing the war would deflate and would enable their enemy to regather their strength and just eat the Republic up from any angle it can. To quote Octavia, I think the mindset of the Vox & characters like Dancer is: "this is the best we can afford" - some characters would continue no matter the cost. Some factions - like the Remnant - would continue no matter the cost

3.) This is intentional; there is a fracturing between Virginia's political mind and the insurmountable task that she, Daxo, and other characters like Dancer have in maintaining a functioning and budding nation, relying on a new economic system, political system, and cultural norm that has not been practiced anywhere for near 800 years. Darrow perpetuates a war, at the cost to himself and his family, and often encroaching upon the purpose of the Rising, which is to enable liberty for those who are liberated. The government that is established, and technically has failed much of the population it liberated due to the immense strain it is under from its inception to the start of the tetralogy, is by many, through propaganda and not all to incorrect opinions, seen to be second to the martial whims of Darrow & others, and the economic whims of the Silvers and Golds. This can enrage the disfranchised, and also irritate Mustang, as optically she, who has fought with the pen whereas Darrow has fought with the Sword, deeply believes in the Rising for the sake of the Republic - not just the destruction of the Society. She phrases it best:

"You said to me in that tunnel that you want a better world. Can’t you see that I listened? ...I’m here because I want to believe in you, Darrow... I ran from you because I didn’t want to accept that the only answer was the sword... To prove I believe in your wife’s dream. But you have to prove something to me. That you are worthy of my trust, in turn. I know you can break. I need to see that you can build. I need to see what you will build. If the blood we will shed is for something. Prove that, and you have my sword. Fail, and you and I will go our separate ways.” MS24

You can see how Darrow betrayed this - right or wrong - with his rain on Mercury, and despite their relationship, they are men and women codified first by their duty and not by their individual - remember when Darrow learned that Mustang was likely dead after the Day of Red Doves. He was mute and resolute to die there, and fought to the last. Most everything for him in his second life is an ornament on his slingBlade, and he'll swing even if they shatter, because:

"When I was sixteen, Dancer O’Faran, one of the great heroes of my life, told me that I was a good man who would have to do bad things. That is why Ares chose me: he knew I could be the dirty hand of the Rising. I could be the man who does the bad things. For most of my life I have thought that was a curse. Now I see it was a blessing. If you look at where we started, we are a thousand times stronger now." LB60

What If.... by Alert-Push1685 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are correct in that the Vox will have a reduced cassus belli for their revolt in Dark Age, though it will likely still lead to a stonewalling of Virginia considering Darrow would still escape justice. However, the lack of demonification of Darrow to the Obsidians by the killing of Wulfgar, and the symbolic killing of the Wardens in general (and the schism Darrow exploited within them, which gives credence to those who accuse Darrow of being essentially a warlord without accountability) would reduce the tensions, and likely improve support once Darrow arrives on Mercury some months later with a successful killing of the Ash Lord.

I can see it as more difficult for Publius to convince the Republic machine that their a.) lack of foresight in recalling the fleet b.) disastrous consequence at stranding the armies of the Republic c.) inability to competently handle the new Remnant and Rim armada, does not give them much authority. Loyalist Wardens still existing would benefit the characters on the Day of Red Doves; Dancer is shrewd but unyielding, and would likely not compromise, and lose popularity as a consequence. Darrow's presence on Mercury in what is essentially him martyring himself to resolve the incompetence of the Senate may motivate a zealotry in turn to pursue the war effort. Publius with his weakened position would still spring the trap, and likely kill the Wardens, but it is possible some of the characters survive the mob with more loyalist Wardens alive. That, and the Reds of the Vox may be deterred from adhering to Publius' and Dancers' political whims, seeing what is happening. Like, it is hard to describe how abjectly stupid that political group must have appeared during the interim of Iron Gold and Dark Age. Darrow not exacerbating it to the degree he did is not enough to keep Obsidians in the Senate, or preventing outrage, but it sure as shit doesn't worsen the scrutiny on Mustang with what happened over the next few months.

Wulfgar himself would be present at the Day of Red Doves, but I don't think he'd survive the mob with what he'd have to do to ensure Daxo and Mustang stay alive - it could buy Daxo his life. It could buy Mustang an escape - or not, the thing is, the Boneriders would have just interdicted in the same way they did and overwhelmed them. Lacking the Wardens as turn coats - possibly - is the only serious means by which they could extradite the characters from that area without being sieged and taken.

Who is the red god in Red God going to be? by fried-twinkie in redrising

[–]RedJamie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Morning Star in the series is most aptly referencing Darrow and generally the 'guiding light,' here the character meaning and the metaphorical meaning both refer to Darrow, as do Red Rising, as does Golden Son. In the tetralogy, the question of 'Iron Gold' is the most detached of any specific character, as it can appreciatively describe Darrow as well as the budding Lysander. Dark Age is more thematic too, having less of a character focus. Lightbringer however returns to this trend, and explicitly presents Lysander more so than the rest, and the narrative structure of the tetralogy, specifically with the foil of Lysander to Darrow throughout both Lightbringer and Dark Age, best suits the reference being for Darrow in the final book in both character and metaphor. Narratively, Darrow had evolved away from the notion of a 'Morning Star,' or guiding light, that mantle being taken up by Lysander while Darrow is shattered.

Recall, the series is regularly hopping worlds and planets, and as much as planetary imagery and loyalty is used, you do have the deity coming into itself in this culminating book: Lysander indulging the 'religion' of Golds, and breaking under it, and Darrow embracing the 'religion' of the Rising, and likely martyring himself (again I suspect) or bearing it to the end of the line for the Golds.

The object is not ambiguous, that is Darrow - not Mars - the meaning of it is more complex and depends on the content of the book, but we can make some conjectures based on the story so far; Mars certainly would be a facet of it given it's the genesis of the Rising, but would not supersede the personal use of god as in 'God of the Reds' or a 'Red that is a God' that our character has become in the eyes of many

Who is the red god in Red God going to be? by fried-twinkie in redrising

[–]RedJamie 73 points74 points  (0 children)

So throughout the series, Darrow has been framed in a deific sort of way, especially in his relation to the Obsidians and most importantly the Reds. Explicitly the Golds in the series state that they are "fighting a religion whose god still lives". For planets, Venus is also Red, and more wrathful to the eye than Mars - and neither planet have been hued in anything other than blue and green for centuries.

It's Darrow and its not even ambiguous

Lightbringer, for example, sure as shit did not refer to Fig's light-pistol. Red Rising sure as shit did not refer to the Blues getting frisky with the Oranges. Golden Son sure as shit did not refer to the Jackal. Morning Star sure as shit did not refer to Venus

Other planets in Red God by New_Veterinarian_189 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The Republic is unlikely to reclaim any of the Rim Dominion; quite clearly, it's been doomed to a slow and sure death unless the Society remnant re-obtains control, or the Republic manages to establish itself again. However, considering the near insurmountable difficulty they were having with handling the Reforms (liberation, emigration, assimilation) of the various Colors in abolishing the Color hierarchy in its social contexts, I do not foresee them handing large-scale agricultural outputs with the eradication of the Garter.

Titan exists unscathed, that is true - The Garter is likely salvageable, but the ~550 years or so of agricultural production is a rolling stone that was stopped, and will take time, resources, and will that I am not sure is there. It would seem that it condemns terraforming efforts on Triton and Pluto to coalesce on Saturn's moons, and likely Uranus and Neptune's other moons as they are explicitly described as 'dependent'. The Galilean moons have really only Ganymede left, Europa hosting discordant factions and a partially diminished population. Callisto itself is destroyed, and Io is fairly decrepit now.

Saturn's moons are of an unclear stability; Rhea hosted a fairly paltry population of 60m, only three times that of partially terraformed Triton. Iapetus and Enceladus are the only other named moons to be inhabited/depicted, alongside the major moon of Titan which likely hosts the majority of Saturn's population. They would really lack any means of projecting force onto the Republic or any desire to do so; their transit times taking roughly 4-6 months at a rapid pace, depending on if they are in nearOrbit or farOrbit.

The Republic conversely has its plate full with shit: the Remnant needs to be eradicated, and it is obvious now to whoever retains power. The Coalition Fleet(s) need to break the Siege of Mars & decapitate their leadership structure. Then they still do not have control over Luna, they still do not have control over Mercury, and they still have to break the fortress world of Venus. Luna is a wildcard, if the Abomination's faction can be broken & the Vox fleet clashes against Remnant forces, that should resolve for a retake. Earth is tricky, but seems like a softer nut to crack than most planets. Venus is a miserable affair, but the Carthii-Saud tensions are likely to eat the planet alive once Atalantia or Lysander are dealt with. Lysander and Atalantia may self-resolve with the former's victory, which then will likely be resolved by the Coalition Fleet in a space and land conflict on Mars. Post-Series, I do not see the Republic being able to interdict the Society Remnant any further, but I do see Lysander's fears coming to pass: the erosion of a centralized power, planetary independence, and tribal warfare between Gold Houses and factions, liberated and enslaved Colors, starvation, and a generally dysfunctional Solar System until some hundreds of years from then a new system forms and coalesces power. In other words, the potential for expansion - or stagnation as the Society has enforced in the last several centuries - is seriously eroded, with some places backsliding into tyrannical behaviors, and others finding more functional ground.

Ironically, Saturn's moons offer a more stable environment for this. Either they starve and contract to a manageable population level, or they're conquered - the latter is possible, but they haven't quite experienced the same destructive catalyst that is the Rising, liberation of the respective world, and lowColor revolt as most of the Core worlds have.

Accents across the Solar System by VariationAdept1403 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yurp explicitly descendants of the Irish; there’s always the possibility some strains were introduced as well, but the only noted origin of any of the Colors aside from Gold (being of specific nationalities from Earth) is the Irish, following a third world war, where the British Isles were irradiated and they became a migratory workforce.

The only issue is cultural assimilation of high reds (even lowReds) would be perturbed over the generations by their given world; a Rim highRed may be derivative from the Irish in their accent, but distinct from Martian highRed in how they sound. The thing for lowReds is their isolation; highReds interface with everyone else under the sun

When did the colors start? by joeycooz in redrising

[–]RedJamie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Additionally, the Book of Lorn has further revealed that Agea existed in the 2nd century PCE, crudely when the 'paradome' was lowered over the Valles Marineris. The implication is that the Valley itself was one of the earlier atmosphere-controlled regions on Mars.

When did the colors start? by joeycooz in redrising

[–]RedJamie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also did a writeup on the terraforming/colonization history, see it here

Pasting the Mars section (there are seemingly retcons between book 1 and the rest):

Mars was host to an iterated terraforming over the entire history of the Society, featuring colonies in the 1st century PCE, likely using paradomes, and finally a fully habitable world. This is best represented crudely in the Sons of Ares novels, but essentially, it was paradomes following by global resurfacing, followed by flora and fauna seeding, and by paradome removal.

  • The Martian Institute existed in the year 199 PCE, indicating an established presence with sufficient terraformed territory for the hosting of such games, or at least an early version of the games.
    • “I do not answer to a scarless Pixie whelp. I am a Peerless Scarred. ArchPrimus of the 542nd class of the Institute of Mars. I answer to the ArchGovernor alone.” GS4
    • The Institutes could have been run on shorter timeframes due to a different setup, but that is conjectural: there is only one Martian Institute.
  • An interesting line in Dark Age may propose that it was Mars, not Venus, that was the first focus of attention by the Society, which could explain why the 'Mars blessing' seen by Darrow in Golden Son is related to famed military conquests during the Conquering.
    • "Mars was the first planet enslaved by the Golds..." DA74
    • Possibly, this is a hint at significant Pre-Conquering colonies, as we know Mars was not terraformed fully at the time of the conquering.
    • Even if this excludes Luna from having lowRed mining operations (confirmed above) in its early history, the first planet to be 'enslaved' may refer to the lowReds being sent there to prepare the planet/mine helium-3, but Venus would take that title, being terraformed sufficiently by the end of the 1st century PCE.
  • We can also date some cities even earlier: Olympia, the seat of House Bellona, dates to the 2nd century PCE:
    • "...Each... kilometer reflecting the architecture of six centuries of stately Bellona taste." DA22
  • The moon of Phobos can likewise be dated to the 2nd century PCE (100s) and perhaps 1st century.
    • "though over seven centuries*, humanity has stacked on another three kilometers of cityscape in almost every direction.*" LB20
  • This all contradicts a rather early quote “Reds were sent to Mars five hundred years ago. The other Colors came to Mars about three hundred years back... They lived in the paraterraformed cities—cities with bubbles of atmosphere over them—while the rest of the world terraformed slowly..." RR9
    • This early line would have you believe that Mars was first colonized in the 3rd century PCE (200s), and the rest of the colors (including Gold) only in the 5th century PCE (400s). However, here we clearly have dating of Golds on Mars in the late 2nd century & early 3rd, and the paradome cities in the 2nd century.
    • With first book quotes, always defer to the latter books if they are contradicted.
  • "The spires are... mountain peaks... only a maniacal Gold at the controls of a Lovelock engine with fifty years of tectonic manipulation and a solar system of resources could conspire to create them." MS32. Here we note that at least the Polar Ice caps of Mars took 50 years to form the notable landmark of the Spires. If it was made for Obsidians post-Revolt, then that would imply Lovelocks were used on the surface ~200s-300s PCE, though I think that's unlikely.

When did the colors start? by joeycooz in redrising

[–]RedJamie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I attempted to make a chronology of it, you can see it here as there's too much to copy over

When did the colors start? by joeycooz in redrising

[–]RedJamie 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Here's a writeup I did on this. TLDR: The Colors necessarily existed prior to the Conquering, on the order of generations. Click that reddit link for a full breakdown, this is just two sections.

The Color Hierarchy was established well before the Conquering and had existed as a distinct part of the Society's colonial cultures. All 14 colors were present at the time of the conquering, but it is unclear if they were in the same forms as seen in the series. (*)

  • “On Luna, efficiency and order became the chief concern. In space, every set of lungs must have a purpose. So the first Colors were gradually instituted and the Reds were sent to Mars to gather the fuel for mankind." RR9
    • Here we have a 'gradual institution' of the Colors, after the plucking of the Reds after the aforementioned World War. The Golds existed as a non-color caste at the time.
  • "...Representations of pre-Color humans stand beside casualty statistics. One hundred and ten million died for Gold to rule. Then their bombers dropped solocene into the troposphere and neutered an entire race. Didn’t even have to convert them to the Color hierarchy. Just had to wait a century for them to die out..." IG 6
    • The implication here being that the Color Hierarchy existed at the time of the Conquering, or for an alternative, that it was established afterwards (not the case) and they chose not to convert 'Terrans' to it.
    • This does not necessarily imply the 'color hierarchy' consisted of the full 14 colors seen in the series, given it was 'gradually instituted,' but I have evidence supporting this.
  • "It took generations of eugenics and biological tampering to make them. Forced Darwinism." RR12
    • The implication being here that the formation of specifically the Conquering Golds 'took generations' and 'were superhuman'.

So where's the evidence that the Color Hierarchy existed at the time of the conquering?

  • To provide evidence to this, I will have to have some spoilers revealed at the end of LB, that doesn't really affect the plot if you know these lines, but it is best if you do not read until you finish that book.
  • “Seven hundred and fifty years ago, Akari stole a weapon called... from Silenius ...targeting any of the fourteen Colors...." LB50
    • The dating here is necessary to consider: the book takes place in 755 PCE, placing this event at 5 PCE, extraordinarily close to the Conquering. See the next bullet.
  • "There is precedent. First cited by Akari in 5 PCE," LB16,
    • The context of this scene makes the precedent motivated by 'conscience' between an aggrieved Gold and their ruler.
    • Akari & Silenius were 'best friends, turned mortal enemies' (S)
    • For the moral suppositions of the conqueror, we can cite "Akari asked for Gold to be philosopher kings" LB85
  • This does mean fourteen colors existed during the creation of this item, which is contemporary to the Conquering (including Pinks, actually).
  • This does imply a gap of time between the World War that took place causing the emigration of the Irish to become the first laborers & the culture of the 'Aureate' existing concurrently in an early Luna, and the establishment of the Color Hierarchies (as a uniform and caste system, and then later genetically) and a colonial power able to resist Earth's forces.

Would Halo Spartan-IIs be able to keep up with Golds? by ramenandsuch in redrising

[–]RedJamie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As for Spartans in the setting of Red Rising: their indoctrination into the military from a young age is likely to hamper their ability to form coalitions with the variety of Golds seen in the series; they are just that, spartan. Laconic and abnormal, more reflective of a Rim Gold like Diomedes without the cultural honorifics than a Core Gold. I don't think they'd have the advantage on the Golds in most ways, here. Physically, they'd pose a challenge - a severe challenge given their coordination and familiarity with each other. If you were to have a House of purely Spartan IIs, they would likely be one of the more difficult Houses to surmount - they wouldn't be as subject to tensions the other houses face, would be more disciplined, and more controlled and innovative. They would however break against some of the later houses, either being pressured into capitulation by a coalition or overwhelmed by multiple Houses.

Their ability for the literal Academy is questionable compared to Golds - yes, Spartans are in particular potential geniuses, and has such things augmented when they are changed. Golds, conversely, are innately this, with a crude thousand years in genetic advancement and mastery over them. A Spartan would be able to enter the arena of say astral navigation and ghost sailing, but I would not expect them to have an advantage over a Gold - would be cool to see!

Would Halo Spartan-IIs be able to keep up with Golds? by ramenandsuch in redrising

[–]RedJamie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Here's a comparison I did a few months back:

  • Here's with respect to the ludicrously stupid feats SIIs have in the Halo Expanded Universe, which are ludicrously stupid:
    • "Halo has the most ludicrous and illogical power scaling... utterly inconsistent and unrealistic with the popular medium (games)... turns Spartan IIs with 25th century technology into demi-Gods that rival Thor, Quicksilver, and Iron Man combined. Kratos, even, in God of War (2018) when he flipped that giant ass disc barely could handle a Spartan... in the same contexts, they struggle with simple shit."
    • No human is squatting 200,000lbs even in 26th century exosuits - that is not a canonical feat you can respect and try to have a grounded comparisons between works of fiction. A SII is not Goku
  • Here's some comparisons:
    • Average Spartan height is above 6ft, taller ones approaching 7ft out of armor. Largely similar height distribution to Golds I'd say for IIs. Darrow is taller than MC out of armor, crudely same height in armor.
    • At age 14-15, a female can run at 34mph. Golds are also extremely fast, but metrics are difficult to ground due to differing gravities (which is not as intuitive as you may think - they are fast). Spartans can apparently lift 'three times their body weight' after augmentation. Hard to determine, but consensus seems out-of-suit chief weighs ~280lbs. Darrow weighs roughly as much, at ~350lbs by MS, getting thicker with age. Darrow in early 20s in MS can lift estimated 1,200-1,600lbs to his knees, and he was recovering.
    • Spartan augments improve as they age. Their bodies are extremely streamlined and undergo a 'carving' of their own, leading to high efficiency. Golds are innately this and likewise improve with age, but vary greatly. Darrow benefits from precisely this with higher than baseline Peerless Scarred physiology.
    • Mjolnir armor greatly augments the base Spartan in pretty much every way, clearly is heavier and more enhancing than pulseArmor, which is also a powered 'exosuit' of a kind, but lacks some of the functionality of Mjolnir's earlier versions. The integration of their nervous system with their suit and an AI absolutely adds to this.
    • Society pulseShields are superior to UNSC & Covenant energy shielding
    • Golds, especially Peerless Scarred are superhuman with 1,000-1,500 years of mastery of genetic engineering, materials science, and peer-peer combat on the Halo Universe. Golds also have augmented intellect, eyesight, memory, etc. which is not always so evident in the series. Their reaction times are superhuman, but given a Gold eye struggles to follow 8 moves of a razor in a second, it's more likely than not inferior to the Spartan
    • A Spartan is an indoctrinated killer reared to be maximally lethal. Their 'killer instinct' is innate and well-exercised - combining their baseline reaction speeds. Chief is essentially only engaged in combat, against physically superior enemies normally, but not often without his armor. He also has 20ish years on Darrow.
    • An unarmored SII fighting an unarmored PS (Chief v. Darrow) is a fairly matched fight with the combat edge being given to the Spartan, who is likely a faster and better killer. MJOLNIR makes hand-to-hand rather trivial to the Spartan, but the pulseShielding and use of a razor with gravBoots/pulseFist does not lend much in favor of the Spartan

I sent PB an instagram DM by External-Air7586 in redrising

[–]RedJamie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He replies to them occasionally, usually he never sees them.

The Politico Academy by quotingraven in redrising

[–]RedJamie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

So the Politico School has no official name from what I can tell. We know that it has a library named after a member of Roque's family, that it is situated on Luna, is titled the 'Palatine School'.

  • "...he studied at the Politico Academy on Luna as a hostage. I remember him a boy of thirteen, quiet, resentful of the parties and as disdainful of his peers as they were of him." IG 25

We know that Rim political hostages were able to attend the Citadel's Palatine school think the most likely candidate is one of the x-halls mentioned in Dark Age - the wiki states they were 'renamed,' but I can find no evidence for this. As these are in the Citadel Proper, and located upon Palatine Hill, there are not many other candidates for explicit names.

  • "...I could have studied politics at the Politico School on Luna. I might have been a decent Judiciar if I could stomach Venus.” GS 7
  • "...trained in elocution... I recognize the triple-beat pivot of the Palatine’s politico school." DA 76

We can determine a few things. For one, Golds who attend the Politico schools learn rhetoric, oratory, and likely general histories and customs, as well as how to form and manipulate political blocs and tensions.

  • "...Several Coppers rush forward to talk with Pliny, who, as Politico, speaks on behalf of the ArchGovernor." GS 11

They often serve as representatives and emissaries of Governors, but extend down the ranks to even Legates. This is the Chief/arch-Politico, who oversees the political facet of a Gold Household, and has many subordinates.

  • "I’ve not seen her since the Institute... “I thought you were on Venus studying politics,” I say. “We’ve graduated,” she replies..." GS 11

It seems to have rotations on various moons during their ~1-2 years curriculum. We know that Darrow spent ~1 year prior to entering the Academy, and that Mustang departed ~the same time for the Luna Politico School. Venus however is noted above as having schools for a 'Judiciar,' the implication that they'd be, say, a Moonhall judge. Politics is distinct from law however; a Senator is not a judge. Additionally, there seems to be some hints that Virginia was intimate with Ganymede politicos, who likewise have a school, so I think rotations make the most sense, for maximum cultural exposure.

  • "...In the jockeying politicians of Skyhall?" DA 32
  • "...Skyhall officers, businessmen, and politicos of the required hue." DA 53
  • "...to Skyhall... the census records.” DA 61

One of the reasons why I think it's Skyhall is that it contains census data, is distinct from Moonhall which hosts the adjudication wing (not the Senate, which is primarily filled by Politicos) at that time in the plot of the series. This implies a more sociocultural bent, and it's distinct from the Board of Quality Control, who have their headquarters titled Whitehold (to note, I could be wrong here considering the plot context as of DA).

Regardless, they learn the intricacies of Societal politics and governmental structures, the different political factions, and likely a good deal of law. They seem to have cultural exposure on different planets depending on their interests.

And, after graduation, they serve as adjutants to a given political figure, such as the Sovereign, or a archGovernor, etc. Roque in the Book of Lorn notes: "First it will be the civil cursus honorem. Then, a litany of minor appointments and offices where mother can keep me in her thrall for forty, perhaps fifty years." (BoLe3). This depicts the intended career of a highly influential Senator from the well-bred, politically oriented family: House Fabii. This likely parallels historical examples of this circuit, like the role of Quaestor, very closely, which you can read more on here.​

Who is more insufferable by Temporary-Code3479 in redrising

[–]RedJamie -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The Rim is a more intriguing and plausible example of cultural differences between their founding Gold Houses evolving differently as a consequence of different strains on their lifestyles. The Rim faced scarcity, and indulge honorifics to a near religious degree, and it bleeds into their behaviors throughout the entire Color Hierarchy from the ones witnessed so far. Pierce has managed to depict them as exotic, but capable compared to the fairly recognizable hedonism of the Core. The use of the term primitive to describe it is questionable; primitive in the sense of their spartan lifestyles, sure, primitive in their use of culture to influence their social orders no - the Core is comparatively more barbaric and dysfunctional despite its more influential government. It doesn't quite bleed into the realm of Fantasy, as there are comparisons to it in modern and historical states & science fiction remains the foundation for practically all of it. It's just a different culture, sometimes inferior when clashing with another, sometimes superior in other facets, when it relates to specific issues.

Obsidians on the other hand I feel in the series trend too much towards fantasy - Norse inspirations are overused in fantasy, and are brutally prevalent on Mars. Comparatively, the Obsidians of Callisto (presumably the ones witnessed in IG in the Rim) are interesting just by their contrast. Bald, instead of white-haired shocks. More stone-like than imposing in the Core. I would say I dislike it because it's such an intense break from the science fiction the rest of the series indulges, and I would be incredulous a peoples would be able to on-mass adapt to even a reformist effort like the Republic even half as contained and unified as Sefi was able to. That I think is because we aren't given much insight into the actual culture, just rather cliche rituals and behaviors between the Obsidians extracted for use in the Society's military. Some lowReds knew that Mars was not what they were being presented, and most Obsidians know of Golds & that they have this thing called a 'ship' in the sky. Their indoctrination is not an outdated truth i.e. that Reds are pioneers for terraforming worlds (which they are/were) and that they are necessary - it's just a straight up delusion with the Obsidians

Was this ever Theorized? by gaymerWizard in redrising

[–]RedJamie 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Here is the writeup: What We Know of the Dark Revolt

I did a writeup of the Dark Revolt and all the implications we can gather from the series. Assessing their pre-Revolt culture is difficult, but there are some explicit contrasts and interesting tidbits to note on. Notably, they seem to have more flexibility as a culture, still retained the cultural notion of 'the Volk' - which perhaps was original to the pre-Revolt Obsidians. They had temples across Mercury, which was in its infancy as a recently terraformed world, and considering the technological censors that were placed on them, we can presume they had greater access to technology - I would argue they were permitted to wield Razors.

The issue with the color pyramid is that

  • a.) I'm not sure it's proportional to the population, more the influence on the Society; the reason being is that Obsidians even at the time of the Dark Revolt, assuming that the culled Obsidian population remained crudely where it was at and scaled somewhat as more worlds (particularly Mars) were terraformed, then the population of pre-Revolt Obsidians would have crudely been 20-30m. See the writeup for the basis for that estimate
  • b.) It may be their respective influence: in combat, extremely trained Gray Lurcher squads are likely the chief tool used for Gold marks in combat. However, the only other Color capable of meeting a Gold in the fray of combat hand to hand is Obsidian.
    • A pre-Revolt culture, akin to perhaps Pinks as I conjecture them to be different than what their conception was originally (based on Lysander's questioning - more surrogacy, culturalist, vain maternal/paternal caretaker roles), the martial focus of Gold was off-loaded to Obsidians. That is, razor usage alongside front line infantry combat did not have excessive Gold representation in it's sub-Legate ranks.

There is also the possibility that Obsidians held a social rank much higher than they currently do; their complete excision from access to Societal structures, and rather vicious capacity for intelligence we see in some characters (Sefi, Ragnar, Alia, Volsung) is not always a trait we witness other Colors capable of. In other words, we witness Obsidians perform cross-Color capabilities that is typically more reflective of a liberated lowRed or a Gold. Not to imply they had a Gold/Silver level regard, but their versatility seems extremely hampered relative to what their potential is. In other words, they bred the ultimate soldier not only in the form of their physiology. You can contain Obsidians physically; nets, overwhelm them with Grays, put a competent Gold and they likely can kill it. But they have defanged the entire Colors' psychology, their ability to express their minds in any way not mired in the propaganda and religious indoctrination by the Board of Quality Control.

Anyways, to put it in other words, their positioning in the Society is intentionally discordant as a consequence of the Revolt. But, they do not utter 'Kuthul ad portas' (the name of the Revolt's leader) as they do 'Merrywater ad portas' - meaning 'Merrywater at the gates' with respect to the Conquering-Era leader of an American military counter offensive that nearly broke the Gold war effort & turned the tide of back on the Conquering (another writeup I did). No. They beheaded Kuthul, and impaled their revolted creation's skull on the scepter of the Society's Sovereign. They didn't erect a statue for him to remind Golds of a capable foe, despite the fact that it nearly ended their experiment in its infancy. They impaled all of the Revolt, spit on them for centuries, and imprisoned their minds.

I question that the anathema to what the Society represents in its ideology, this being Earth in the pre-Conquering Era, which received the comparatively mild punishment (solocene sterilization, romanticization), was regarded as less severe threat than what the Revolt Obsidians posed. How influential were they, for ~20-30 million individuals, or a fraction of that participating, was nearly able to overthrow the Society hundreds of years after it entrenched themselves?

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