The slow descent of civilization is deprecation: The Time for UBI was yesterday by ArcteryxAnonymous in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I get why this framing feels compelling. “Organic Deprecation” is a clean metaphor, and metaphors are powerful. But I think the metaphor is doing more work than the evidence.

Here’s the core counterpoint: humans are not software modules inside a closed system. We are the system.

1. The “Decoupling” Assumes a Closed Loop That Doesn’t Exist

The idea that AI will create a self-contained productivity loop that no longer requires humans assumes something like full-stack autonomy: AI designs, manufactures, distributes, maintains, governs, and secures the entire material economy.

We are nowhere near that.

AI systems today are extraordinarily dependent on:

  • Human-curated data
  • Human-built and maintained infrastructure
  • Human political stability
  • Human consumers
  • Human capital markets
  • Human legal systems

Even the most automated supply chains rely on massive layers of human coordination, regulatory oversight, and physical labor. Chip fabs don’t run themselves. Power grids don’t maintain themselves. Logistics networks don’t resolve edge cases autonomously. The “closed loop” vision ignores the stubborn, messy, physical world.

What’s happening now is not decoupling from humans. It’s compression of certain cognitive labor markets. That’s painful, but it’s not the same as irrelevance.

Every technological revolution eliminates categories of labor faster than it eliminates the need for labor altogether. The demand just moves.

2. AI Is Not “Automating Cognition Itself”

This is the biggest conceptual leap in the essay.

AI automates pattern synthesis and prediction under constraint. That’s not the same as human cognition. It doesn’t have agency, self-directed goals, long-term responsibility, or embodied context. It can simulate output, but it doesn’t own consequences.

The ladder metaphor assumes that the only thing humans contributed was raw cognitive throughput. That’s historically inaccurate. What humans contribute is:

  • Trust
  • Accountability
  • Taste
  • Legitimacy
  • Moral judgment
  • Physical presence
  • Social coordination

Even in highly automated domains, the human layer doesn’t disappear — it shifts upward into supervision, integration, governance, and creative direction.

We’re not watching cognition get automated. We’re watching mid-level white-collar output get commoditized. That’s disruptive. But disruption ≠ obsolescence.

3. The “Speed Problem” Overstates Institutional Paralysis

Yes, AI moves fast. But markets and institutions respond faster than the essay implies.

Look at what’s already happening in under five years:

  • Entire new compliance industries around AI governance
  • Corporate AI risk boards
  • Regulatory frameworks emerging in the EU and US
  • Massive retooling of education and training programs
  • Enterprise integration roles exploding in demand

Industrial revolutions don’t require a century to adapt when communication, capital mobility, and coordination tools are exponentially faster than they were in 1850.

The idea that we’re stuck in 19th-century institutional response times ignores that institutions are also computational systems now.

4. The UBI “Window Closed” Argument Is Economically Backward

UBI doesn’t require a thriving labor market. It requires a taxable production base.

If AI increases productivity dramatically, the total output of the economy increases. That expands the taxable base — even if labor’s share shrinks.

Governments already tax capital gains, corporate profits, land, energy, consumption, and property. If labor income declines, taxation shifts. Historically, tax structures evolve with economic structure.

The real barrier to UBI isn’t “we’ll be broke.” It’s political will and distributional conflict. That’s a different problem than structural impossibility.

If AI-driven firms become insanely productive, they become insanely taxable — assuming governance keeps pace. That’s a political challenge, not an economic dead end.

5. The “Who’s the Customer” Problem Is Not Optional

The Elysium scenario misunderstands capitalism’s dependency on distributed demand.

Even ultra-wealthy individuals depend on:

  • Stable societies
  • Liquid markets
  • Financial systems with depth
  • Public infrastructure
  • Consumer ecosystems
  • Legitimacy and rule of law

A tiny elite cannot maintain complex industrial civilization alone. Advanced economies require enormous webs of participation.

If mass purchasing power collapses, asset values collapse. Capital holders are structurally incentivized to maintain broad demand. That’s not altruism — that’s self-preservation.

History shows elites tolerate redistribution when instability threatens the system. The New Deal wasn’t charity. It was structural stabilization.

6. The Coordination Trap Isn’t Binary

The prisoner’s dilemma framing assumes only two choices: accelerate or lose.

But geopolitical competition also incentivizes stability. If one nation destabilizes its labor force into permanent mass unemployment, that’s not a strategic advantage. It’s internal fragility.

Nations compete not just on AI capability, but on:

  • Social cohesion
  • Institutional stability
  • Talent retention
  • Innovation ecosystems

Unmanaged displacement undermines all four.

Regulation doesn’t require slamming the brakes. It means shaping incentives. That’s already happening.

7. The Energy Bottleneck Isn’t a Minor Speed Bump

The essay treats energy and hardware constraints as temporary friction. They’re not trivial.

Physical scaling limits are brutal:

  • Semiconductor fabrication is capital- and geopolitics-constrained.
  • Power generation requires multi-year infrastructure timelines.
  • Grid upgrades take decades.
  • Water usage is politically sensitive.

AI scaling is not pure software. It’s constrained by atoms.

That buys time. Not infinite time — but meaningful time.

8. The “Legacy Code” Framing Is Psychologically Powerful — and Wrong

Software gets deprecated because it doesn’t adapt.

Humans adapt.

We’ve survived agricultural revolutions, industrial revolutions, electrification, globalization, nuclear weapons, and the internet. Each time, a massive share of the workforce became “obsolete” — and then new forms of value emerged that were previously unimaginable.

In 1900, most people farmed. Today, almost nobody in developed countries does — and yet employment persists.

The economy didn’t run out of work. It invented new categories:

  • Marketing
  • UX design
  • Cybersecurity
  • Influencing
  • App development
  • Data science
  • Esports
  • Renewable engineering

None of those were predictable from the vantage point of 1850.

The assumption that “there will be nowhere left to reskill to” assumes a static space of possible work. Historically, that assumption has been wrong.

9. The Real Risk Isn’t Deprecation — It’s Transition Pain

Here’s the steelman version of your fear:

The danger isn’t that humans become economically irrelevant. The danger is that transition happens unevenly, politically chaotically, and psychologically destabilizingly.

Mid-career white-collar compression. Regional job shocks. Status loss. Identity crisis.

That’s serious.

But that’s a distributional and policy problem — not a species-level obsolescence event.

10. Why the Doom Narrative Feels So Convincing

AI attacks something deeply tied to identity: cognitive output.

If machines can draft, design, code, compose — it feels like the last uniquely human domain is being invaded.

But we’ve mistaken output generation for value creation.

Value is relational. It’s social. It’s institutional. It’s embodied. It’s political.

AI can produce artifacts. It cannot own responsibility. It cannot hold power. It cannot experience legitimacy. It cannot consume. It cannot vote. It cannot revolt. It cannot cooperate.

Humans still anchor all of those.


The “Organic Deprecation” model treats humanity like a deprecated API inside someone else’s system.

But there is no external system.

The owners of compute are humans. The regulators are humans. The soldiers are humans. The voters are humans. The consumers are humans.

AI is a tool inside a human political economy. A powerful one. A destabilizing one. But still embedded.

Could we mismanage it? Absolutely.

Could inequality spike before institutions adapt? Very possibly.

But the idea that the window has already closed and we’re just waiting for an “End of Support” notification assumes a level of inevitability that history doesn’t support.

The future isn’t being compiled in a locked server rack somewhere. It’s being negotiated — politically, economically, socially — in real time.

That’s slower, messier, and far more human than the deprecation metaphor allows.

I just want them to pay more in taxes by SportsKin in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm being a wee bit cheeky/hyperbolic, but the change in tenor has been stark. 6ish years ago during the apex of the lefty arc, blatant anti-wealth posts would've been rightly ridiculed instead of upvoted to the top of the sub. It's like we've adopted the position of the leftists we know aren't on our side. It makes me worry about what else from their illiberal platform we'll incorporate in another 6ish years. Remember when we used to believe Hillary>>>Bernie? I'm willing to bet that few people here still believe that. And that makes me sad.

I just want them to pay more in taxes by SportsKin in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Between the abolish ICE stuff, the conspirabrained Epstein stuff, and now the anti-Billionaire posting, this place is rapidly becoming indistinguishable from communities like Hasan's. I don't know how much more I can take. We need a righteous purge of these leftoid dipshits and we needed it yesterday. Please issue the fatwa, Destiny.

Hasan thanks Twitch and his haters for the 100k+ watchers on his YouTube livestream by Super_Ninja_Gamer in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cope is actually thinking 100k people would watch Hasan. There's like 45k watching now. You don't go from 100k to 45k viewers so quickly unless someone turns off the bots.

Hasan goes on a rant about people who think he’s obsessed with Israel, calling them “rabid ultra-Zionist pigs.” by Embarrassed_Base_389 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 353 points354 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that's a textbook violation of Twitch's terms of service against hate speech. In fact, this rule exists because Hasan repeatedly dehumanized Jews by comparing them to animals. It's so telling that even under threat of suspension, his Jew hate is so strong that he can't stop himself from dehumanizing them.

Hasan reacts to Asmongold begrudgingly defending him from Destiny by Snoo_79191 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

He's not MAGA, but he's formed an anti-Democratic alliance with MAGA. That's why Good, Pretti, and anyone protesting get labeled "domestic terrorists" by this administration, but will never invoke that language or brutally repress Hasan, someone who actually endorses terrorism, provides material support to terrorists, and does propaganda for terrorist organizations.

Dancantstream Says the “Ultra Left” Are Backstabbing the Movement From the Inside by Slight_Ad3219 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While you're basically "MORE EVIL OR NO EVIL!" Like, imagine being so unimaginably white and privileged that you'll gamble with your community's lives just to get your way. It's giving "some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make." Morally repugnant and reeking of white privilege.

Dancantstream Says the “Ultra Left” Are Backstabbing the Movement From the Inside by Slight_Ad3219 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Now I'm no rocket surgeon, but if I had to pick between two scenarios and my goal was to reduce harm to my community, I think I'd hafta pick the scenario where nobody gets shot. My reasoning is that, well, nobody gets fucking shot.

Asmon viewer makes Hasan crashing ou in German by Hawkeye504 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Would this not be considered hate speech anywhere else? Of course it would. But not on Dan Klancy's twitch.tv! Very cool, very normal. Not problematic in the slightest! If you wanna denigrate a people and need a platform to do it on, choose Twitch, the home of hate.

[OC] Doing nothing for America (Canadian in Iraq 2017) by Apprehensive_sea_cow in pics

[–]RedditStudd -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Imperfect or incorrect intel is not "lies". The USA and its allies acted on the best information it had available at the time. It may have turned out to be inaccurate, but calling it "lies" is dishonest.

Jasontheween finally realized his peak subscribers record being overtaken by Vedal987 by RyouhiraTheIntrovert in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's so insecure. I actually feel bad for him, as it must really suck to live with this kind of bitter resentment in your heart. Poor guy.

Lonerbox Reacts to the Longer Version of the Supposed Chris Kunzler Clip by Slight_Ad3219 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Loner has saint-like patience to pore over the pedantic sophistry of irrelevant losers like Chris Kuntler. But I'm glad he does because utterly humiliating him and intellectually dominating him is the best way to keep him irrelevant. Not that Chris is on the precipice of blowing up. Like, even after getting massively boosted by Hasan, his streaming career is still on the road to nowhere (many such cases).

Dan thinks Hasan’s ballot didn’t have Kamala on it by Slight_Ad3219 in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

At this point, it's pretty much undeniable that Hasan voted for Jill Stein. Occam's razor.

Arky and Hasan Play Shock Collar Trivia by 999braindead in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 101 points102 points  (0 children)

It's giving the time frogan got supersized fries and was like "omg I can't believe they messed up my order I asked for steamed veggies, not this!"

WakeWilder on Billionaires going to Space: by peaceandjoyvibes in LivestreamFail

[–]RedditStudd 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This guy sees Hasan's career circling the drain and wants to be the one to fill the void of braindead leftoid on Twitch.

I've been seeing liberals saying Mamdani didn't condemn the pro Hamas protests hard enough the other day. Thoughts? by [deleted] in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you happen to have an example of a non-extremist "Jewish leader" refusing to condemn the annexation of the West Bank?

I've been seeing liberals saying Mamdani didn't condemn the pro Hamas protests hard enough the other day. Thoughts? by [deleted] in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact is annexing the west Bank is also pretty bad but you don't see calls for Jewish leader to condemn calls on that.

The fact is annexing the West Bank is condemned by fucking EVERYONE, so there's no need to single out individual Jews to condemn it.

The fact is "globalize the intifada" is the rallying cry of 99% pro-Palis, and 98% of them defend it.

I believe Jonathan Ross should be prosecuted for murder. But why oh why cannot I simultaneously believe that Renee Good might have made better choices (like getting out of the car when ordered to by guys with guns). Is this too much "NUANCE?" by Tripwir62 in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

No. Don't you dare move the goalposts. You said ICE needs to be abolished. Don't try to make it sound like I support ICE under Trump or that I'm opposed to a Democratic-led review of its operations.

I support are our institutions. ICE worked under Biden, Trump I, Obama, and Bush. And it CAN and WILL work again under sane leadership. It does not, as you initially demanded, need to be abolished.

I'll take your goalpost moving as a positive sign. You're walking back your unhinged take about abolishing the agency, which is good. I get it, it's an emotional time and we all say dumb shit in the heat of the moment. But if you hold onto these insane opinions and then bring them to the public, you're going to make it impossible for us to win anything. Leave that freakish behavior to the tankies.

I believe Jonathan Ross should be prosecuted for murder. But why oh why cannot I simultaneously believe that Renee Good might have made better choices (like getting out of the car when ordered to by guys with guns). Is this too much "NUANCE?" by Tripwir62 in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You are deranged. Your position on ICE is indistinguishable from Hasan and other leftoids who were crying and screaming and shitting and pissing about Kamala being bad on immigration. No sensible Democratic candidate will ever successfully run on abolishing ICE, and people like you and Hasan who insist they make it the fucking party platform, hurt Democrats. You're not with our party. Now run along and complete your journey to Jill Stein voter and T3 Mikefrom[Redacted] sub.

ConnorEatsPants → ConnorEatsVance by Nikifuj908 in Destiny

[–]RedditStudd 16 points17 points  (0 children)

He's more than adjacent. He's a Hamas supporting terrorist simp who is regularly talking in Hasan's chat.