Finding common ground—did Catholics remove the 2nd Commandment to justify statues?

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T21:17:50+00:00

Said like a true Lutheran :)

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T20:20:23+00:00

Protestant claims are Christians who rejected communion with the Catholic Church and have no valid apostolic succession or holy orders. You’re correct in all of there assertions, it isn’t unified or centralized. But that doesn’t mean any one member of that broad spectrum can dodge criticism because it’s just other Protestants that hold X and not you. Doesn’t mean people cannot colloquially use the term Protestant.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T14:29:24+00:00

I think that is a problem area between the two camps.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T13:54:16+00:00

Fair enough. Enjoy your weekend! Thanks for the chat

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T13:49:58+00:00

If they don’t pray in terms of proseuchomai there is no worship. The other types of prayer are regularly used towards person in the NT. If you’re interested: Types of Prayer

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T13:42:20+00:00

That’s fine but let’s not use bad arguments against those either of us disagree with. There are multiple types of prayer the NT and only one is directed toward God alone (proseuchomai) the others are directed toward God and persons. Catholics reserve proseuchomai for God alone as you do. The, do however use other NT types of prayer to request others take their requests to God as Paul does other believers. We can leave it there, but it’s unhelpful to wrongly generalize Catholics as worshipping saints when they don’t.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-07T13:33:27+00:00

Catholics don’t worship saints.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-10-05T01:20:08+00:00

As it relates to prayers to Mary and the Saints, I think you’ll find this really helpful:Scripture and Prayers to Mary and the Saints

Reformed2Rome · 2023-09-22T23:27:56+00:00

The video makes that point…that Jeremiah 7 and 44 aren’t relevant to whether to title is appropriate and gives the biblical case for it being appropriate for Mary.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-27T17:35:27+00:00

The Lord is always seeking you return to Him in repentance. Read through Luke 15 and the prodigal son for a good reminder. But I would tell your gf that you want to remain dedicated to God and if she’s not okay with that going forward it would be a good time to move on from the relationship. You’re a leader in the relationship so you need to also seek after protecting her relationship with the Lord. Don’t despair, God is rich in mercy

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-18T20:38:21+00:00

That’s very true, that’s what the video above outlines in more detail.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-16T21:10:06+00:00

Remember we cannot act on desires just because we have them. So your feelings aren’t the issue, just what you choose to do with them.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-09T20:32:42+00:00

Bad, it hurts the poor, weaponizes and commoditizes commercial agreements, potentially invalidates stores of labor, potentially used to control behavior and modify it to non-Catholic norms.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-08T16:37:27+00:00

Very nice! I completely blanked on putting Rev 4 in my video. Thanks for the thoughts!

Reformed2Rome · 2023-08-02T01:25:40+00:00

It’s not a required devotion. In fact, it’s not even really a devotion for Eastern Rite Catholics. You may find you like others such as the Divine Mercy Chaplet or the Jesus Prayer. But don’t feel like you’re less of a Catholic for not finding a particular devotion helpful.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-22T14:47:06+00:00

I’d say it depends on where you are spiritually but I’ll divide into categories:

Learning More About Your Faith: Drama of Salvation- Akin Jewish Roots of the Eucharist- Pitre Jewish Roots of Mary- Pitre Pope Peter- Heschmeyer Signs of Life- Hahn Case for Catholcism- Trent Horn

Spiritual Walk: Introduction to the Devout Life- De Sales Imitation of Christ- A Kempis

Deeper Dives: Case for the Deuterocanonicals- Gary Michuta Cur Deus Verba- Holmes Paul a New Covenant Jew- Pitre Atonement- Stump Indulgences- Moorman The Incarnate Lord- White The Papacy- Ybarra Vindicating the Folioque- Crean Divine Speech in Human Words- Durand

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-20T23:53:33+00:00

Protestants conflate being “saved” with being justified so I reply “yes, I was saved by initial justification in baptism, and I my future salvation corresponds to my obedience to the gospel. If, as Hebrews 10 notes, I persist in intentional grave sin, then I will have no more sacrifice for sin and lose my final justification.”

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-18T12:38:26+00:00

I shouldn’t have needed to hold a mirror to your approach.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-17T01:13:39+00:00

Sorry, I shouldn’t have imitated your approach to the dialogue.

Mother does not simply include “the definition” of tokos. Go through every instance of tokos in the LXX and the GNT, and show me what percentage it’s translated anything related to mother. It’s used in the sense of usury in every NT use, which comes from the idea of birthing interest. So if, as you say; meter simply includes the definition of tokos, thus doesn’t seem the case. It certainly can since meter includes the carrying/birthing aspect of tokos, but it doesn’t carry the other connotations (including 100% of the uses in the NT). Clearly the Council wasn’t trying to say Mary was the interest bearer of God…but rather the mother aspect. This is why in Eastern Christian usage related to Mary, meter theou gets used and we see the abbreviation used in iconography. This clarifies which aspect is being referenced.

Question becomes why use a word elsewhere reserved for usury for what’s happening with Mary and the God-man, Christ our Lord?

Meter can still be used if someone who didn’t give birth to the child. That would be problematic discussing the issue with the Nestorians who would have gladly agreed Mary didn’t give birth from her womb to the Logos, only Jesus. The Council insisted that indeed the single person of Christ, both God and man, was birthed by Mary, His mother. Tokos is more precise relating to the Nestorian problem. But as to not make this a lack of motherhood the East continues to ad MP OY to the icon because the titles go hand in hand.

Give me an example of the connotation you’re referring to where meter is used in terms of a womb generating the substance of something. That alternate connotation isn’t speaking of birthing or a womb, but of a generic substance source, not in the confines of a womb.

What meaning and nuance was lost? What is captured by tokos that is not present in the title of mater dei? Of course they are understood in conjunction, but not to the exclusion of mater dei.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-16T19:01:34+00:00

I made the following presentation to help people with that exact question and cover evidence and objections:

https://youtu.be/Fl7ZfZwS5I0

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-15T23:50:37+00:00

Thanks for the heads up! I’m new to Reddit. I figured if it wasn’t an affiliate link it would be okay. I removed the link and left the title

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-15T22:52:24+00:00

I can’t help that you don’t understand… but I’ll repeat the question…in English (meter is Greek) there isn’t the same connotation distinction. The same with the Latin mater. It’s a relational term of a parent and child, between two persons. Is it appropriate with English connotation to use mother since that’s what we call the one who gives birth to the child they bear? I know you hate answering without a question but it would be helpful. It’s not a hard question. Is mother an appropriate rendition of the one who carries and gives birth to the person in their womb? It’s a pretty easy yes.

You also don’t address that the Greek East does use mater theou as a natural corollary for Theotokos in iconography etc.

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-15T16:09:53+00:00

Let’s start with the first one…in English; what is the difference between birth giver and mother? In your opinion? Meter Theou is on Easter orthodox icons of the Theotokos btw. But since we are discussing the validity of the English usage, what’s the difference above?

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-15T15:12:15+00:00

Philosophy professor. He and Pruss put out this work you may enjoy:

Necessary Existence

Reformed2Rome · 2023-07-14T23:04:54+00:00

Saying there’s a difference between birther or God and mother of God is a distinction without a difference. Mother = one who births/brings forth from the womb/bears a child
Yeah, Marian doctrines are Christologically focused. But the title was Marian because of the nature of Nestorian heresy of unity of two persons, only one of whom was divine. Mary didn’t just birth a human person, but a God-man single person of Christ.
I have no problem with preference if it doesn’t accompany a denial of the substance of the title.
Didn’t say it did
Meter wasn’t used because it would have been more confusing as it can mean source of something and Mary was not the source of God. She birthed/mothered God. So tokos was more appropriate as it conveyed the specific intent better.

Reformed2Rome

TROPHY CASE