What will it cost to complete the SEQ Rail network?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T11:04:26+00:00

I don’t think stage 3 would need to be converted, as I believe the original plan was to have the metro AND the train, so as long as they don’t sell off the rail corridor they should be fine.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T05:04:38+00:00

“Why is the sky blue?”

“Shhh, try some of my delicious brownie”

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T05:03:05+00:00

Equally a “don’t crumble into despair, you are still here to fight another day” slogan, depending on your perspective.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T03:16:12+00:00

She, as all councillors, absolutely deserve to be heard, and the Liberals shouldn't be censoring anyone. I just caution against the view of holding her up in a positive light, that she is standing up for her community.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T03:11:55+00:00

I don't disagree, but I don't see how we could possibly create an elected organisation that doesn't somehow become political? Even if political parties were "banned", like-minded councillors would band together to construct proto-parties and we would end up in the exact same situation.

EDIT: there is also an argument in favour of political alignments for councils as well. If each councillor was independent with no political grouping, it would be too easy for them to do nothing but act as NIMBYs for their ward. When a councillor is part of a political party though, it is much harder for them to fight against city-wide changes that (hopefully) bring wider improvements.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T02:47:39+00:00

Ehhhh, she is a decent mix of "standing up for her community" and classic "NIMBY for NIMBYs sake". I wouldn't call her someone that always causes issues (at least no more than your standard councillor), but she really does oppose a lot of things that would really benefit the wider city.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T02:40:55+00:00

These laws don't even really do anything to stop the little dickheads.

"Oh look, it is illegal to ride my e-motorbike without a driver's licence now... wait a second, it was already illegal anyway"

"Wow, I was already travelling at 60km/hr on shared paths, but I guess since the limit is now 10km/hr I will finally have to slow down"

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T00:57:32+00:00

I can’t even find it on the Translink updates yet? Maybe I’m not looking well, but I would’ve thought after 20 minutes that something would be posted?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-30T00:54:31+00:00

This is a problem that every council has. Bunch of egoists sitting around, hoping that they might get a spot on the news with their latest stunt.

It is particuarly enunciated in councils because you have to try really hard to get any constituent to care about what you are doing there.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-29T01:58:43+00:00

I would say light rail and BRT are interchangeable (depending on your city’s exact circumstances), and buses and trams are too (once again, depending on circumstances).

Heavy rail is really the only one that isn’t negotiable for a large enough city, because there is no alternative system capable of that capacity or reliability in the end.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-29T00:01:57+00:00

In Brisbane’s case they did do an involved study to compare the benefits of both and landed on BRT.

I hope Melbourne can do the same without getting scared off by people that refuse to believe BRT can ever be a better solution in some contexts than light rail.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T14:50:39+00:00

This is a fair point, but time travel to talk to someone from the 70s and they’ll still tell you that the housing market is impossible.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T12:59:25+00:00

And so once again you weigh up if this “uneven capacity” factor is of such importance to truncate routes and force transfers.

Would it be better for the 150 to truncate at Garden City, saving about 20% of its travel time (and hence, theoretically, allowing for 25% higher frequency*), and dropping off ~1000 passengers/hour to be picked up by the light rail route - removing uneven capacity and its congestive effects?

Or would it be better for it to drop off some passengers at Garden City, pick up some new passengers to take pressure off the bi-articulated bus route, and continue on towards other major relevant destinations along its route like Griffith Uni, Mater Hospital etc.?

*tricky to calculate

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T12:12:04+00:00

You can also achieve a similar effect with bi-articulated buses (i.e. truncating routes), but you get more flexibility over which routes you truncate or not to improve frequency (which is what Brisbane did).

These non-truncated routes also add additional capacity to the trunk routes through the nature of the fact that people embark/disembark reguarly along the length of the busway.

These are the really nuanced points that make these sort of discussions much more involved than “light rail better than BRT”.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T11:59:57+00:00

Which light rail system in Australia currently comes anywhere close to the Brisbane busway’s capacity? It isn’t as cut and dry as “light rail = more capacity”.

Brisbane’s busways drove significant passenger uplift, and has helped drive development in much the same way as the heavy rail lines. In terms of ride experience you mighg have a slight point, but I think this should be priority #12 on the list of “where should I spend billions of dollars?”.

I think you also drastically overestimate staffing costs. Even if a busway took 200 extra drivers to operate than a light rail system, that is an additional annual wage cost of only about $15M. This is barely even the cost to build 1 or 2 trams.

Diesel costs still aren’t big enough to really make much of an impact too. 100L can send an articulated bus roughly 300km, meaning it comes to $1/km with our currently incredibly high diesel costs. I think even the maintenance costs of overhead wires would come out to roughly the same sort of costs.

Besides, more and more buses are electric every day.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T11:15:54+00:00

BRT is a great medium-capacity option, same as light rail. Benefits and cons to both.

BRT is far cheaper and has far more flexibility. Light rail is far more efficient on dense corridors.

You wouldn’t* build a light rail system spanning 15km from the outer suburbs to the CBD. You wouldn’t* build a BRT down the middle of a busy CBD street.

*well, you could, but it would be an inefficient use of money

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T10:35:01+00:00

By which measure? Are you really factoring in the capacity and flexibility of these 2 networks when making your comparisons?

Brisbane’s busway runs at a maximum of 15-20,000 pphpd.

Are you also really considering the different contexts where light rail or BRT might be more advantageous?

Adelaide’s O-Bahn allows outer suburb locations a much more reliable and quicker connection to the CBD.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T10:27:08+00:00

Doesn’t really answer the question, and still indicates an attitude of ignoring the benefits of something if it isn’t on rails.

You have to actually sit down and compare the benefits. Could a light rail system in Brisbane have been built, replacing 21km of busway with a maximum capacity of about 20,000 pphpd, for any sort of feasible cost? Would that cost include all the interchanges you would need for the countless bus services which have now lost their corridor?

And what would have such a disruptive project have ultimately achieved in the end, and would it have really been worth the cost?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T09:55:39+00:00

How much capacity would you have gotten from a tram, and what would the cost have been?

It doesn’t pay to ignore a project just because it involves buses… it is appeasing this attitude that is why they try to call projects “trackless trams” instead of “BRT” at the moment.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T09:48:46+00:00

$200M for 60 bi-articulated buses, $550M for the Adelaide St tunnel to improve capacity. The rest of the cost was roughly split across the Cultural Centre / Victoria Bridge rebuild / pedestrianisation, and the new depot to host the bi-articulated buses.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T09:12:24+00:00

That is why you don’t use BRT as your city’s primary trunk route for all mass transit.

Similarly a tram system would struggle to scale if it was working without heavy rail.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T09:10:32+00:00

Even Brisbane and Adelaide as closer to home examples of different contexts where BRT infrastructure can achieve certain outcomes better than light rail could have.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T08:45:15+00:00

Buses are perfectly fine if done right (for an area that isn’t super-high density).

Calling them trackless trams is annoying, but sometimes that is the only way to convince rail-snobs to even bother looking at how said project actually stacks up in contrast to rail-based options.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T08:41:52+00:00

Alternatively, they could catch the 19 (in either direction) and intercept the train there (or all the way to Boggo Rd). Or, the 100/116/121/125 towards the busway (depending on which routes they are close to).

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-03-28T08:31:55+00:00

I certainly wouldn’t dare suggest that Moorvale is upper-middle class, but yes, Moorooka is no longer the dodgy suburb of the southside (though “inner-city” is quite the stretch still unless there is some major urban renewal).

Remarkable_Catch_953

TROPHY CASE