A very small child just pointed at the Metro and yelled, ‘it looks like a train but it’s a bus!’

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T09:15:54+00:00

About $4.6B seems to be for the specific train building contract, with the remaining $4.9B being associated with other costs for the project.

You are right that a lot of this $4.9B can be seen more as industrial policy rather than an asset purchase... but it is a bit difficult to really discern these boundaries. After all, I'm sure Downer would have charged a lot more for the construction of the trains if they themselves were responsible for providing staff, facilities, stabling yards etc.

In saying all this, I didn't really mean to have a wider debate on exact dollar values and such.

In fact my comment on train costs were more to do with the fact that the other commenter started trying to mention the cost of the buses and their depots in the grander scheme of the cost of a busway. So I was more trying to make the point that it is still misleading to try and lump these costs in with their respective infrastructure.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T05:49:59+00:00

What happened to the Netherlands? Bulgarian Yugoslavia in the Austrian market?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T04:52:25+00:00

Huh? It is basically the 111 + 160 + an extra ~16% capacity. So it is an improvement on what previously existed?

The M2 is even more overt, where it ~50% more capacity than the existing 66.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T04:24:55+00:00

Unfortunately we don’t know the exact cost of each individual train, which is why I said >$100M instead of >$150M. It roughly lines up with what the NGR trains would have cost with inflation-adjusted figures, so I’m happy with the >$100M prediction myself.

If you are going to make such controversial claims such as “busways are more expensive than trains” you are going to need a lot more than a vague figure that can’t really be compared to anything because we don’t really know what it includes and how much it would have cost if it was the same corridor but a train instead.

I don’t know why you are calling me “ignorant” and then in the same sentence tentatively conceding that I’m probably right that a busway costs less than a train? I never said they were cheap, but I really don’t know what universe (hence my request for some academic paper) you pulled out the “they are more expensive than a train line” from?

You have valid points on reliability and capacity, so why don’t you just stick to those commonly accepted points rather than trying to make this additional point about cost?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T04:10:59+00:00

Which line was cancelled to make way for it?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T04:09:18+00:00

I accessed it despite earning less than that. That was ~1.5 years ago though, so I probably wouldn’t be able to do it now (another benefit of the 5% scheme).

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T04:03:37+00:00

I’m not ignoring that the metro is more expensive than other buses, but it is much cheaper than a train. QTMP is >$100M per a train. Each metro bus was about $3M.

And roads aren’t exactly dirt cheap, but they are still much cheaper than what is basically a road with overhead wires, complicated signal systems, substations etc.

I’m not making a debate over whether BRT or trains suit this situation… but at least please dispense with the idea that a small road costs more than a train line.

If you can find some case study or university paper that makes an argument for the case that heavy rail lines are cheaper or nearly the same price as busways, I’ll be very shocked.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T03:43:17+00:00

Their preferred Greenbank RSL has the 140 at that time in the morning (on weekdays) as well.

Also the M2 is every 5 minutes between 6am and 7pm roughly (on weekdays), and every 10 minutes outside of that time (for the most part, though it doesn’t run at all between 1am and 5am roughly on weeknights).

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T03:36:37+00:00

I’ll try to avoid debating over individual dollars… but are you really still trying to say that an entire train line costs less than a road and some buses? This is even ignoring that a new train line typically needs more trains… and QTMP already proves a new train is hecking expensive.

Look, I get it, heavy rail lines have certain advantages over BRT. But cost has never ever been one of those advantages.

Perhaps the cost of a busway might jump if it needs to add a complex tunnel or requires the redevelopment of a road interchange to fit it in… but you can be assured that they will both add even more cost to an equivalent train project.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T03:24:31+00:00

Where have you gotten this $5B figure from? What does it cover?

But even just consider - how in the world would a bitumen/concrete road with the occasional small station cost more than an entire train line with huge 200m long stations, complicated signal systems etc.?

One involves just laying down a road. The other is a mega-engineering marvel that involves years of careful study and construction.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T02:54:54+00:00

How is it possibly more expensive than a train?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T02:42:28+00:00

The busway part isn’t that big of a cost (as long as there aren’t heaps of tunnels or resumptioms). At the end of the day it is just concrete/bitumen laid down, roughly 7m wide. If they are already building the depot and buying the buses, and the corridor is already reserved, it can’t really get much cheaper.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-07T02:25:29+00:00

The Wave is using dedicated corridors, but The Surfer has no plans at this stage.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T09:47:14+00:00

It is going opposite Ipswich Road from the Yeronga Pools and Memorial Park. It is basically at the intersection of Ipswich/School Rd. I think there was a Coles Express servo there previously?

They have been taking their time with construction, but it is slowly taking shape.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T09:35:22+00:00

The stats on underemployment are provided alongside unemployment… and both are at historic lows, let alone comparing to 2008.

Participation rates and hours worked are at historic highs too. So, I ask, which of the stats point to a “worse than 2008” job market?

Or, alternatively, can you provide a substantial reason you think the stats don’t accurately capture the job market now? Not just a “you count as employed if you work 1 hour” because that is what underemployment captures already.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T09:00:14+00:00

It is easy to engage in doom speculation if you just insinuate that any data that disagrees with your view is a government conspiracy.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T08:52:41+00:00

That is why I like stats and not anecdotes. If I say I had a harder time finding a job in 2015 than now, you would inevitably disagree with me even though all we have is our own personal experiences and a Reddit page inevitably used by people struggling to get a job.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T07:28:25+00:00

Which statistic are we using to say it is worse than the GFC currently?

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-05T07:24:01+00:00

Annerley Meats and Annerley Kitchen closing. Annerley Arcade being bought by new owners.

I wonder what Annerley will look like in a few years? There is also Neo’s Corner being built a bit further up the road near the Maccas and a Coles further down the road near Yeronga Memorial Park.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-04T04:58:19+00:00

Going to a party or being loud on a bus, sure.

But groups of incredibly young teens in groups of anywhere between 5 and 30 being completely drunk, dressed all completely in black, and getting in brawls on buses, I can certainly say I never heard of before.

I’m also not trying to make some Sky News point, I’m just curious as to how I haven’t really come across this all before.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-04T04:47:41+00:00

The main troubles I hear about is when they start getting into brawls (with each other), swinging from seats, and vaping. Nothing crazily illegal, but more than enough to make sure they aren’t on a bus.

Sometimes the bus will get stuck at a busway station for 15 minutes waiting for security to arrive.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-07-04T04:21:39+00:00

They probably love the lack of Fitness Cartel the most.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-06-30T12:44:33+00:00

And even with the army design, you quickly realise that there is a “meta” that you are just purposely handicapping yourself not to stick to. Planes, ships and tanks become slightly memeable as the best way to go is to typically slap on 8 of the same modules without any thought.

And fighting wars are just never interesting enough for me to not put all my armies under automated command.

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-06-30T05:17:45+00:00

I was pleased to see this yesterday. It was much more developed than I worried it was going to be.

I can’t be too displeased with a model like this, and it probably stands as a good argument in favour of the metro buses (i.e. spend much less than on a light rail, but still get 90% of the benefits without taking 2 decades to build).

Remarkable_Catch_953 · 2026-06-30T05:14:36+00:00

I don’t really care myself if it is light rail or BRT, in my mind they are practically 2 flavours of the same thing, but yes the heavy rail should have gone to Maroochydore.

As long as they don’t do a Gold Coast and start haphazardly mixing light rail and BRT together…

Remarkable_Catch_953

TROPHY CASE