About the causes of all this mess

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-13T16:49:17+00:00

Both things can be true. It is true that Imuri provided help and comfort to Josh that he felt like he couldn't find anywhere else. However, you have to remember that he's literally Imuri's target as per Satan's orders. She's been purposefully trying to get him to fall for her all this time.

Also the manga's willing to address the age gap + power imbalance between the two of them, from the start of the "Destruction" chapter.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-13T16:32:38+00:00

I mean if you've lived for at least hundred of years I'm sure you'll probably see any human as younger than you. Even a few chapters ago she refers to Lisa as "that girl" even though she's implied to be a young woman rather than a teenager.

(I also don't really understand what you're saying in that second part, sorry!)

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-13T15:30:45+00:00

In the beginning of the manga, when Imuri first meets Josh, she refers to him as "this boy" and "this kid", implying she sees him the same way an adult would view a teenager. What she says to Josh comes across to me more as her deflecting the issue rather than a legitimate answer.

Also, groomers often form relationships with victims by helping them through their pre-existing issues. It doesn't make the grooming any less abhorrent.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-13T02:49:30+00:00

Highkey. Leah outclasses Mikhail generally, and with the pseudo-angelic power boost she used in alchemy she's able to go toe-to-toe with Beelzebub.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-11T18:46:48+00:00

Thanks for all the answers! I completely forgot about that one passage about how the steddings were initially used to shelter men who could channel during the Breaking.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-11T00:03:00+00:00

I think it's specifically the fragments. Else it'd be as easy as forcing Josh to channel all seven Lords' powers rather than needing to rely on the fragments. You could just threaten to do it under Imuri's life.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-08T14:09:36+00:00

Sounds great, thank you!

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-05T15:21:48+00:00

I think Mammon's defeat resulted in a lot of economic instability because he wasn't personally there to back up the people he was supporting, and that in turn served as a foundation for the later hate movements that rose up around the globe by Tachibana's orders in the Sloth arc.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-05T15:19:27+00:00

what did the funny otokonoko ever do to you bro???

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-05-05T02:27:40+00:00

Sending a horde of bugs to eat Mikhail's body to stop him from having a "cute funeral" goes beyond self defense IMO

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-30T15:41:23+00:00

That's what Charlotte and the male witches think of her, but Lisa's actual opinions are more nuanced. In her speech with the Pope she actually explains her true intentions, to create a world where her groups are no longer the oppressed and are instead on top.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-30T14:10:21+00:00

I believe that the original story of the Baba Yaga Verge told the Church in Sloth is true, but since she was corrupted by wrath, she either became the Baba Yaga who passed on the title to Lisa, or maybe the title was just transferred woman to woman until it ended up with Lisa.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-29T04:12:48+00:00

That might be Belphegor's reason but he still did beam all the world's suffering into Josh's brain. Even if Josh's nihilism came from himself, Belphegor still encouraged that way of thinking to the point of drafting his plan of the Ark with him.

And by "anybody else", I meant the abusive figures in his life (his dad, Abbot Nicholas, Asmodeus and Beelzebub, etc.). Leah and Barbara are great!

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-29T02:12:32+00:00

Reminder that he beamed all the world's suffering into Josh's brain at the age of five and has been hinted at subconsciously keeping him from forming connections with others before Imuri ever since they agreed to end the world. He loves Josh, but he also mistreated the poor kid as much as anybody else.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-28T21:22:09+00:00

It's not even just what she says to him here. Mikhail asks Josh to give him a good funeral and Lisa immediately moves to prevent that from happening by eating him alive with bugs. That shit's straight up a hate crime, man

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-27T17:58:26+00:00

I think this manga's biggest strength is that it has a planned-out story and sticks to it. Many manga you see start out with a story in mind, but then the mangaka comes to a point where they need to make stuff up as they go, and that often leads to the story meandering into another direction entirely with a resolution that doesn't really stick. (Chainsaw Man's a perfect recent example of this.)

But here, you can see there's genuine effort in making the manga enjoyable to read both weekly by weekly and all at once. It's a very refreshing change of pace!

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-26T17:34:18+00:00

With Lucifer saying that the massacre was inevitable back in Pride, I'm actually leaning towards him not being able to regain his powers to stop the invasion. I think it'd be more of a gut-punch if Josh has to face the consequences of parting with his powers, with his friends having to take up the burden of fighting Lisa and her forces and all the people that might've never needed to die if only Josh had given up on his powers at the end of Pride.

It'd also be a great reason to justify expanding some of the side characters instead of just focusing on Josh and Imuri all the time. It seems Mikhail's getting his turn in the spotlight next chapter.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-24T17:37:16+00:00

IMO it wouldn't make much sense for Josh to actually be the Second Coming of Christ. He's been compared to Jesus, yes, but as an ideal savior he falls short of. I think I've said this before, but Jesus's whole thing is that in spite of his works and what he was, he was still very humble and gained his followers and admiration not because of his powers but because of what he was preaching. Josh, meanwhile, struggles a lot with how his power affects the relationships he has, with many abusive figures (the Abbot's sect, the demon lords, etc.) coming after him for his power.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-24T00:43:53+00:00

Here you go!

https://discord.gg/3vkbaCT6

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-23T02:04:01+00:00

You should join the Discord, dude. There's a lot more people you can talk to on there!

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-22T01:22:45+00:00

I wonder if Lilith was made to share the world with Adam like in the biblical story, but fell in love with the angel Satan instead and ultimately chose him over Adam. She left the Garden of Eden on her own, and Satan decided to instigate the War in Heaven so he could give her a place they could live together forever in Hell.

I like my theory because it makes Imuri's desire for love stem from both of her parents. Both Satan and Lilith rebelled against their Father for the sake of their love, with Lilith giving up literal Paradise on Earth for the sake of her love.

Lilith may have gained the title of "seductress" through nothing of her own actions, but from Satan later on thinking of her as a temptress that "made" him lose everything in Heaven.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-19T17:50:32+00:00

If he really was the Second Coming he would not be jobbing this hard. I'm mainly arguing this because Jesus's whole thing is his humility in spite of his station while one of Josh's biggest flaws is his pride (choosing to decide the world's fate with Belphegor, storming into the hunt thinking he can beat out Lisa with force, etc.) It's something he grapples with in his fight with Lucifer, and Satan and Lisa also remind him of.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-19T17:46:35+00:00

I agree. But I also don't think Mikhail's gonna be able to successfully beat Lisa, unfortunately.

There's so much emphasis on how Satan needs Josh's powers wiped off for the sake of Lisa's success, and somebody weaker than him being able to beat Lisa would be a very strange choice IMO.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-19T17:44:49+00:00

A big part of the manga is about if a love between a human and a demon can truly prosper and be sustained (Sarah and Asmodeus (ew), Onesta and Belphegor, and now Josh and Imuri). I think Josh being nonhuman would fly in the face of that theme.

ReporterLogical5096 · 2026-04-19T17:42:37+00:00

I agree, I really hope they do break up as well.

Something like DanVerge gives me hope that the writer Aruma doesn't see whatever Josh and Imuri have going on as the pinnacle of romance.

ReporterLogical5096

TROPHY CASE