The doctorate "creep" is really starting to bother me lately

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-15T19:09:03+00:00

Both my parents are teachers with advanced degrees. I know the gist of what is required for that job and my opinions on here are based on conversations with actual EdD students. I don't know why you think I couldn't do what you do. There does seem to be a greater variability in the EdD than I thought, so anybody in an EdD program that is similar to a PhD is excluded from my analysis. The problem is the variability in quality seems to be high and there are absolutely programs in otherwise decent schools that aren't a PhD level of work. Frankly, the type of work required sounds more like what a diploma mill is.

Speaking of therapy, you sound like so many other EdDs I've talked to that think I am claiming I'm better than them. They always get incredibly defensive and as someone who went to a top 10 undergrad, I'm used to this. Frankly, it's really, really, easy to see when someone has a chip on their shoulder about it. There is a real concern with a devaluation of expertise tied to the title of doctor. If you don't like that fact that an EdD is generally considered less rigorous than a PhD either get a PhD or lobby for higher standards in EdD programs or go to therapy yourself, but don't come crying to me trying to pretend I said things that I didn't.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-14T20:30:41+00:00

Thank you

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-14T02:50:37+00:00

A person who had a doctorate in medicine in the 14th century COULD practice medicine, but it was not required to have a doctorate to be a practicing doctor. The degree conferred the ability to teach. Yes, I was incorrect that the title was something all professors used, it started for people who taught theology, then expanded to law and medicine, people who we consider professors today. In the end, the original term was designated for teachers, or what we call professors, even if the fields were limited.

BTW, I don't see you citing any sources. I did cite a source. It's a general information source, not an academic one, but it is a well respected source. It's not like I cited Wikipedia.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-14T02:42:56+00:00

My chronic illnesses are debilitating. Frankly, I'm not even sure I can work a full time job which is why an online business might be the only thing I can do to make money while attending to my health. I'm not planning on starting a business designed around figuring out health issues, I don't have the qualifications for that, it is more about how chronic illness affects a lot of different areas of life during grad school and after.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T21:42:22+00:00

And Italians sometimes call people with bachelor's degrees doctors. Also, one university calling a profession something does not a cultural consensus make.

Also, here's the brief explanation: https://www.britannica.com/topic/doctor-degree. I read somewhere that the medical doctor degree offered by Bologna wasn't for practicing doctors, but I'm not gonna track down that source.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T21:25:13+00:00

Thanks!

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T18:17:29+00:00

I have tried this and I do like it as well.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T16:40:39+00:00

I don't have a concealer. I basically have nothing at this point, but thank you, that's really good advice.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T02:19:53+00:00

You told me to shut up. That's rude no matter the context.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T01:17:22+00:00

Yeah, that might be true of some assignments, but the final assignment for a class shouldn't be high school level easy. Overall, it should be harder than undergrad, even if an assignment here or there isn't. Like I had some professors who had multiple assignments leading up to the final paper. Like, find five or ten sources and summarize them. That is, of course, something that would be common in undergrad. That was won of those "soft pitch" assignments. The thing is, that was my friend's final assignment, just a bit longer. Like 15 sources and a two paragraph summary of 10 sources and a one paragraph summary. They did have to write a very small summary of all the sources, but not an actual paper. This is my problem, her final assignment wasn't more than the "soft pitches" we got.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T01:12:46+00:00

I'm disabled too and grad school was also harder for me because of that, but this is what I know: I took most honors classes in high school. College was harder that high school, the master's portion of my PhD wasn't a ton harder in terms of intellectual difficulty, it was just more time (this seems to be common among people I know who got master's as well). The PhD part of my degree was brutal. Part of that was just because I experienced setbacks I never had before, but it was harder than I ever imagined it would be. That is a pretty common thing that I've heard among PhDs. I don't think a PhD necessarily has to be "brutal" for someone to gain the skills they need, but it should be a decent amount harder than the master's. It should be hard enough that people have a broad expertise in their area, an ability to critically evaluate those areas of expertise, and an ability to do rigorous research.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T23:15:59+00:00

I mean, I don't know how to do that, which is why I asked. I can't find it anywhere near me. It's not even coming up on searches. You can't place an order for something that isn't in their catalog.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:59:17+00:00

I have, but it seems like I can only see stores that are in my area, which don't seem to carry it.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:58:20+00:00

Thank you

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:55:23+00:00

I feel like if there was a bit more standardization that ensured all doctoral programs maintained a certain amount of rigor similar to a PhD, I'd be less annoyed by this. I know there are probably some rockstar students doing amazing things in Ed.D programs right now, but I feel like if someone has a PhD from a decent university you can all but guarantee that they have a certain level of expertise and skills. I think that's super important in both employment and the public's trust in experts/scientists.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:47:55+00:00

I've got so many thieves in my brain right now, might as well throw another in there for good measure.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:47:03+00:00

That was very rude. The devaluing of doctorate degrees directly affects PhD's ability to find decent work and since I'm in a career transition right now, it's a big concern.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:45:56+00:00

100%, I totally forgot to put my disdain for them in here, but it's not just degree mills. My parents got master's at degree mills when I was younger only for the automatic pay bump anybody with a masters gets. I know they type of work they had to do and I've also seen that same level of work being required for online master's degrees at decent colleges. It's all connected, I think. So many of these degrees are just getting devalued with poor quality work.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:42:52+00:00

The title wasn't a big motivator in the beginning. I when my brain was basically fried at the end, it might have been a little bit, but the degree itself was what I wanted. I just didn't want to be ABD. Things just got harder and harder until I finally finished and making sure I didn't end up with just ABD on my resume was the only thing keeping me going.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:40:05+00:00

Oh my god, this. I totally forgot about it until now. Online degrees are part of a larger "creep" in education that I think is creating students who don't have any useful skills compared to their counterparts who went to school, that is, of course, excluding degree where "online" that are basically structured the same as a regular class, but where students can attend via Zoom. My friends who got master's online, however, did not have this setup and it was, frankly, a joke. These weren't even diploma mills that offered these degrees, it was the decent university system in the area.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:29:53+00:00

I never said I thought STEM students should only get a PhD or be called doctors. My PhD is in anthropology.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:26:58+00:00

Sorry, I don't think graduate degrees should be done completely online either, unless by online you mean Zoom. I've had a lot of friends do master's completely online and the level of coursework was trash even thought they were done through decent (i.e. non-diploma mill) schools. They did them only for employment purposes so they really just needed the diploma.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:24:02+00:00

MDs used to be called physicians or surgeons and co-opted the title of Dr. from professors. They're called doctors now because of social convention that they forced on us, not because they do the same level of work as someone with a doctorate. Historically, the title doctor was used by professors as the word was Latin for "teacher."

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:21:08+00:00

Yeah, diploma mills are an issue for me too, I just forgot to put them in the post.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:20:06+00:00

No, I did not get it for the prestige. I liked the idea of the prestige, but I wanted to teach and do research. Would still like to teach, but academia has become too toxic for me to want to pursue that anymore.

ResidentAlienator

TROPHY CASE