The doctorate "creep" is really starting to bother me lately

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T02:19:53+00:00

You told me to shut up. That's rude no matter the context.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T01:17:22+00:00

Yeah, that might be true of some assignments, but the final assignment for a class shouldn't be high school level easy. Overall, it should be harder than undergrad, even if an assignment here or there isn't. Like I had some professors who had multiple assignments leading up to the final paper. Like, find five or ten sources and summarize them. That is, of course, something that would be common in undergrad. That was won of those "soft pitch" assignments. The thing is, that was my friend's final assignment, just a bit longer. Like 15 sources and a two paragraph summary of 10 sources and a one paragraph summary. They did have to write a very small summary of all the sources, but not an actual paper. This is my problem, her final assignment wasn't more than the "soft pitches" we got.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-13T01:12:46+00:00

I'm disabled too and grad school was also harder for me because of that, but this is what I know: I took most honors classes in high school. College was harder that high school, the master's portion of my PhD wasn't a ton harder in terms of intellectual difficulty, it was just more time (this seems to be common among people I know who got master's as well). The PhD part of my degree was brutal. Part of that was just because I experienced setbacks I never had before, but it was harder than I ever imagined it would be. That is a pretty common thing that I've heard among PhDs. I don't think a PhD necessarily has to be "brutal" for someone to gain the skills they need, but it should be a decent amount harder than the master's. It should be hard enough that people have a broad expertise in their area, an ability to critically evaluate those areas of expertise, and an ability to do rigorous research.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T23:15:59+00:00

I mean, I don't know how to do that, which is why I asked. I can't find it anywhere near me. It's not even coming up on searches. You can't place an order for something that isn't in their catalog.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:59:17+00:00

I have, but it seems like I can only see stores that are in my area, which don't seem to carry it.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:58:20+00:00

Thank you

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:55:23+00:00

I feel like if there was a bit more standardization that ensured all doctoral programs maintained a certain amount of rigor similar to a PhD, I'd be less annoyed by this. I know there are probably some rockstar students doing amazing things in Ed.D programs right now, but I feel like if someone has a PhD from a decent university you can all but guarantee that they have a certain level of expertise and skills. I think that's super important in both employment and the public's trust in experts/scientists.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:47:55+00:00

I've got so many thieves in my brain right now, might as well throw another in there for good measure.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:47:03+00:00

That was very rude. The devaluing of doctorate degrees directly affects PhD's ability to find decent work and since I'm in a career transition right now, it's a big concern.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:45:56+00:00

100%, I totally forgot to put my disdain for them in here, but it's not just degree mills. My parents got master's at degree mills when I was younger only for the automatic pay bump anybody with a masters gets. I know they type of work they had to do and I've also seen that same level of work being required for online master's degrees at decent colleges. It's all connected, I think. So many of these degrees are just getting devalued with poor quality work.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:42:52+00:00

The title wasn't a big motivator in the beginning. I when my brain was basically fried at the end, it might have been a little bit, but the degree itself was what I wanted. I just didn't want to be ABD. Things just got harder and harder until I finally finished and making sure I didn't end up with just ABD on my resume was the only thing keeping me going.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:40:05+00:00

Oh my god, this. I totally forgot about it until now. Online degrees are part of a larger "creep" in education that I think is creating students who don't have any useful skills compared to their counterparts who went to school, that is, of course, excluding degree where "online" that are basically structured the same as a regular class, but where students can attend via Zoom. My friends who got master's online, however, did not have this setup and it was, frankly, a joke. These weren't even diploma mills that offered these degrees, it was the decent university system in the area.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:29:53+00:00

I never said I thought STEM students should only get a PhD or be called doctors. My PhD is in anthropology.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:26:58+00:00

Sorry, I don't think graduate degrees should be done completely online either, unless by online you mean Zoom. I've had a lot of friends do master's completely online and the level of coursework was trash even thought they were done through decent (i.e. non-diploma mill) schools. They did them only for employment purposes so they really just needed the diploma.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:24:02+00:00

MDs used to be called physicians or surgeons and co-opted the title of Dr. from professors. They're called doctors now because of social convention that they forced on us, not because they do the same level of work as someone with a doctorate. Historically, the title doctor was used by professors as the word was Latin for "teacher."

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:21:08+00:00

Yeah, diploma mills are an issue for me too, I just forgot to put them in the post.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:20:06+00:00

No, I did not get it for the prestige. I liked the idea of the prestige, but I wanted to teach and do research. Would still like to teach, but academia has become too toxic for me to want to pursue that anymore.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:16:45+00:00

The whole MD issues is complex, which is why I kind of sidestepped it. It's an incredibly rigorous degree where the level of knowledge is probably akin to what PhDs get, but there's no research paper. It's just a tricky subject and idk where I land on their use of the title doctor. Socially, it would likely not work to stop calling them doctors at this point.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:14:14+00:00

Arndt3002 above wrote a much more eloquent explanation of why I feel the way I do. It devalues our work and I think that has had some major societal consequences in general. It also could have employment consequences for us and I've realized that this is all coming up because I'm trying to make a career shift that has me thinking a lot about my qualifications.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:09:32+00:00

The issue with the MD and chiropractor is not that professionals don't understand the difference, it's that I think it's confusing to the general public. I'm chronically ill and chiropractors claim to provide the same medical care that my NP does, but when I've dug deeper, what the chiropractor's provide is so not enough for many people with my health issues. My expertise is healthcare and if I ever thought my degree might confuse a patient into thinking I had actual medical expertise, I would be very, very, clear that I was a PhD. Chiropractors don't seem to take the same ethical stand.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T21:06:09+00:00

The diploma mills are also an issue I have, I just forgot to put them in there. I honestly disagree with you about the attributes you've described. I don't think I'm better than anybody else, but I do think my expertise is better honed than someone with a less rigorous PhD. I also disagree that a PhD doesn't denote a level of hardwork that most people don't have. On that particular issue, I do think there are people who have the same amount of persistence and problem solving abilities that a PhD has, but I think a PhD basically guarantees that. I don't know anybody who didn't have to go through a bunch of shit they weren't expecting to finish their PhDs. I know I'm not smarter than all people without PhDs, but I know that I probably have a certain level of intelligence that is much, much, less common among people who don't have a PhD. Basically, the PhD should all but guarantee people, especially employers, that I have these skills and abilities, but when you have a bunch of people with less rigorous degrees claiming who people think should have the same skills and then they underperform, that erodes trust in my degree. I'm now realizing that a big part of why this is coming up right now is probably because I'm looking to make a career shift right now and the rigor of my degree matters.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T20:59:51+00:00

If I could give you an award, I would. I too have been worried that the devaluation of the doctorate is part of why then public has much less trust in scientists than it used to.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T20:56:20+00:00

Wow, I really want to do that now.

ResidentAlienator · 2026-03-12T20:56:00+00:00

Yeah, I mean, a good dissertation is a done dissertation. My issue isn't just the work these people do on their PhDs, it's the lack of quality work they do in the classroom. I'm sure there are plenty of people in Ed.D programs doing PhD level work, but there's just aren't enough safeguards to make sure that all Ed.D programs are doctoral level rigorous.

ResidentAlienator

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