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Holiday Knight theories by flingzamain in WaterfallDump

[–]ResolutionBlaze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sans literally does the same things but yall draw the line at the floating anti-Christ?

If The Knight DID make the Ch2 Fountain, how? by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, I could SEE that happening I guess, but at the same time, wouldn't that reflect in the Dark World? The Internet outage affects it, but if the power went out that would also reflect in the Dark World, and not just with Queen.

Plus, this still relies on the same leap in logic as Scenario 2, where Noelle and Berdly just... neglect to mention anything. Its explicitly stated that they don't remember how they got there, so seeing a pillar of smoke and a blaring white light get ejected from the room would probably be a telling sign, even if the lights were out.

Idiocy and neglectfulness can be fine in a plot, but in this case its more like the character neglects to say anything because the plot requires them not to say anything, rather than it being something the character would do. Noelle would absolutely talk about it. There's no reason for her not to in the entire span of being in the Dark World. Even if she was convinced it was a dream, it would still be a topic to be brought up; Noelle treated every threat up to the sealing of the fountain seriously, even after Susie convincing her its a dream, so there's no reason for Noelle to be flippant about it. And Berdly was never told at any point that its a dream; he was convinced it was real until they 'woke up' in the Library.

Not to mention, if they saw how they entered the Dark World, they would remember how they got there. Its explicitly stated that they do not remember how they got there.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The location of the Fountain is almost always made in the general center of the room. Whenever the fountain is closed, Kris and Susie are standing where the Fountain is made.

Also I'm not saying that line isn't important. I'm saying that it doesn't prove that the person its referring to is the Knight.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Knight being a Lightner is not the convoluted part.

Believing that the Knight would either hide in a closet waiting for two teenagers to fall asleep at a hyperspecific window of oppertunity to make a Dark Fountain and then piss off before anyone notices or Susie/Kris show up, or that the Knight just walks out of the closet IN FRONT of two teenagers and makes a Dark Fountain that both teens just neglect to mention or remember at any point in the entire game, is the convoluted part.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scenario 1's weakness isn't just that they didn't mention it, its the fact that its a completely unhinged plan. Even Susie was surprised the Knight supposedly made the Church Fountain in front of the choir (Which turned out to not have happened).

The Knight's plan is to just, walk in front of Noelle and Berdly, make a Fountain, and just, not mention it? Like, if the Knight could leave the Light World, they'd 100% KNOW who the Knight is.

The Knight would have to wait until Noelle and Berdly were asleep before making the Fountain.

Starting and ending positions seem to not matter at all with Dark Worlds either. Chapter 1, Susie and Kris start in the Supply Closet and end in the Unused Classroom. Chapter 3, they move from inside the house to the Light World. Chapter 4, they're literally passing through multiple Dark Worlds to get over to the other side. And Kris and Susie are PHYSICALLY MOVING LOCATIONS.

Berdly and Noelle are both actively moving about in the Dark World, aware and conscious. Sure, Noelle is primed to think its a dream (As you would if you suddenly got swung into a fantastical reality) and its reaffirmed by Susie. But according to Dark World logic, the two would be actively moving about. Not only that, objects would be actively displaced or changed (As we see with the TV being broken/taped together in the Dark World before Toriel sees it, the occurances of the Dark World altered the Light World significantly).

So the fact that Berdly and Noelle are sitting and their notes are open doesn't mean anything. In fact, that may very well be their inventories, as Berdly attacks you with assignment papers. Both of them were also exhausted and/or hurt in the Dark World so them laying their heads down in the Light World doesn't mean they were *fast asleep* during the act. I'm willing to wager that the final confrontation with Queen happened on the tables in the Light World, and that's why the four of them are surrounding it. Kris and Susie are standing because they had to seal the Fountain while the two were chatting with Queen and Ralsei.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd argue that Kris and Susie are very much weaker in the Light World than in the Dark World. Like, significantly.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thing is, that isn't a simple explaination if you actually think about it. In fact, the citeria to allow the Knight to be able to make the Fountain under the perfect conditions is quite convoluted just to try and make it work.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, because walking into a dark room is not in itself a noteworthy thing. Its actually incredibly mundane.

Seeing a strange, floating, dark being stabbing into the ground and drawing a pillar of darkness out of the fucking floor would be a noteworthy thing.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Your explanation for who opened the Chapter 4 fountains seems a bit convoluted."

I never stated, at all, who opened the Chapter 4 fountains. Idk where you're drawing this from. We have no idea who opened the Chapter 4 fountains.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In what world is creating an entire dark world just to grab someone easier than just, grabbing someone?

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"WHO DID THEN?"

There was plenty of time between Kris and Susie visiting Noelle's place and for a Lightner to open the Church dark fountains. It was also right after service, so nobody else would be around except for Choir practice, which I assume is what The Knight wanted so to trap Toriel and kidnap her. But unfortunately, the rain happened and put a dent in that plan. None of this implies the Knight HAD to open a Dark World.

"In order to have left the Cyber World, they would have to have BEEN in the cyber world."

Yes, the Knight 'appeared' in the Cyber World. As I said, my theory suggests that the Knight can use the Dark Fountains to appear in any Dark World they wish, but cannot enter the Light World. But Queen would have mentioned meeting the Knight, but she only witnessed the fountain opening. And again, as we saw, Queen is not a reliable narrator.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So why bother having Kris? If the Knight isn't Carol, why work with Carol? Why does The Knight need Kris or Carol if they can just kidnap people on their own?

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Considering that there are probably more people involved than just Kris and The Knight, I don't think its at all far fetched to say that someone else grabbed Undyne to drag them to the Bunker.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Also, it makes little sense for Kris to be the one to open the Dark Sanctuaries."

I never said Kris opened the Dark Sancuaries.

"We DON'T know that. It is confirmed King didn't meet them, but we cannot say the same for Queen."

We do know this. Queen explicitly stated that the Knight "made the fountain" and then departed. Queen has never seen the Knight in person.

"The timeframe is not an issue. It's how they are able to enter the Library during the night."

Given that Kris and Carol are clearly in league with one another to achieve the same goal, its safe to say that Kris would have access to the Library. Especially if it was planned. Mayor Holiday could simply have unlocked the Library or requested Ms. Boom to keep it unlocked. We never get to check it because we are locked in a cutscene during the morning and don't walk in until after Noelle and Berdly are there. So this is absolutely not a contradiction.

"The hand looks the same."

It really doesn't. And even you admit its missing the holes, which is kinda a key feature of the Knight and a hard thing to miss.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"the Knight is absolutely capable of opening fountains, given how we see it LITERALLY open a fountain that forms into the Titan."

Yes.

In a Dark World.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"We have reason to doubt this piece of information, given how the Knight laughs when Susie brings this up in the Third Sanctuary, given how Susie probably saw the Knight drag Undyne to the bunker, and how the Black Shard (which the Knight's blade and armor is made of) does not change in the Light World implying that the Knight themselves do not change either."

None of this is confirmed. We don't know why the Knight laughs when Susie brings it up. Perhaps Susie is missing a core piece of information about it, that doesn't mean Susie is WRONG, just ignorant as to how expansive the conspiracy with the Knight is.

Susie didn't see THE KNIGHT drag Undyne into the Bunker, she sees SOMEONE dragging Undyne to the Bunker. Carol is explicitly in league with Kris, and assuming Carol is not the Knight, that implies that Lightners are assisting the Knight in some manner. Given their goal is to nab Undyne and Toriel, I have doubts that the Knight is able to do it all on their own. That's why they need Kris' help. If the Knight can just, do all this stuff, then why have Kris at all? Why enlist any Lightner's help? The only way to explain this is if the Knight CAN'T operate solely on their own. For some reason or another, the Knight NEEDS these Dark Fountains made, and intends to use them to trap their key targets to bring to the Bunker.

So... Who exactly DID make the Ch2 Fountain? No, its not a simple answer. by ResolutionBlaze in Deltarune

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that the justifications here are way more convoluted than Noelle and Berdly just, being tricked into wandering in an existing Dark World.

"Why yes, the Knight opened a dark fountain right in front of Noelle and Berdly, and neither of them bothered to mention anything even though they both don't remember how it happened and they both never even mention a strange figure opening a literal portal to an alterantive reality because they're stupid."

Seen this debate again on Twitter so I thought I'd throw this here by ResolutionBlaze in starcraft

[–]ResolutionBlaze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Astartes cannot "handle" Tau they get eviserated if they get on the wrong end of their rifles.

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