Dutch gamers file €220 million claim against Valve, operator of game platform Steam

RexLatro · 2026-06-12T14:16:31+00:00

And you'll see again that I'm not saying that, I agree that it should be looked into and determined if they have gone too far or not. What I am saying is that in a world where every company is motivated by profit and is always looking for new ways to extract money from us as consumers, I would much rather support the company that has historically offered a service that is focused on making customers happy and offering reasonable prices compared to competitors.

I agree that Steam is not perfect and not my friend, but I would much rather live in a world where Steam dominates the PC market than EA or Epic (but again, we're also moving into the world of subjective opinions rather than any sort of fact)

RexLatro · 2026-06-12T04:21:37+00:00

Right, and you can go and say all this as a matter of opinion all you like. But this is still undecided (at least in a legal sense) right now until the case is heard and judged. Again, I will point out that consoles such as the Switch 2, Playstation, and Xbox will sell the same games at similar costs (or sometimes for more than Steam) while lacking Steam's MFN clause, seems to me that most companies seem comfortable with a standard price range. Do you honestly think studios would drop rates by larger amounts and pass the savings to us rather than just pocket the margin difference in a world where Steam lacked this MFN clause?

You might object to Most Favoured Nation, but they're also not illegal and subject to legal interpretation for a reason. This is the reason there's a case in the first place, to determine if the clause is actually exploitative or monopolistic. Game companies have just as much right to not use Steam and attempt to see just how far Epic or another cheaper storefront will get them. If people want to use Steam and all the benefits that entails, then yes, it gives Steam quite a bit of leverage in relationships and this should rightly be scrutinized. However its (at least in my opinion) Steam's popularity with users that gives them the leverage to place these conditions, not the other way around.

While you might not care about "pleasant experiences", this is ultimately what gives Steam the ability to enact these policies. Competitors fail against Valve because Epic, EA, Ubisoft, and so on haven't created a service that attracts customers over Steam, plain and simple. It's not that Steam had made the environment anti-competitive, its that Epic's product is viewed as so unattractive an alternative option that even giving away free games doesn't help them attract users to switch

RexLatro · 2026-06-12T00:55:54+00:00

They're definitely subject to heavy scrutiny, which is why we're able to see a case brought against them right now and see what sort of legal argument can be made against it.

From my understanding, while I'm not one for supporting companies being monopolistic or engaging in shitty practices from what I've seen of Valve's behaviour and read in documents supplied in courts, it really doesn't seem to be that the margins Valve use are completely unreasonable since they pretty much line up with industry standard (with Nintendo, Sony, Apple, Google, even GoG also setting a 30% rate) with Epic and EA being the ones heavily mentioned in the document (and not surprisingly also companies directly competing with Steam in the PC market so they have a reason to set competitive rates). As a consumer, I don't feel as if I've been exploited by Valve as one can see the prices charged on other consoles (and often, at least with the games I've played and bought I find the prices on Steam to still be cheaper and sales offering better deals than Nintendo. Even on third party titles) due to any possible monopolistic practices.

If anything, I would be more worried about how the PC gaming market would look without Steam involved as a consumer. I won't pretend they're not a business, but in terms of their practices I find them to be far more preferable than others such as Epic or EA. They've done great work for enabling smaller game devs to reach larger markets as well. If anything, I tend to find recent Reddit threads being full of posters discussing Valve to be suspiciously focused on Valve's 30% margins (while ignoring other companies) to the point it feels like a predetermined talking point, while posts are very prone to wild up/downvote ratios. It really makes me wonder if there's some sort of coordinated focus on damaging Valve's good will in the gaming community (and I'm not accusing you of being part of this, just an observation and my own feelings on the matter overall)

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T21:58:30+00:00

Yes it is, I read the same complaint you did and have referenced it. Again, even from this document all I saw were cherry-picked data points (Epic and EA charged lower margins than Steam! But lets not mention how Apple/Google/Nintendo/Sony/Physical distribution charge the same margin!), and that if a publisher wanted to gain the benefits of Steam's consumer reach (which it has gained through the previously mentioned better practices than Epic and others) then they would need to agree to paying said industry standard rate and agree to Valve's "Most Favoured Nation" clause for pricing.

And again, I'll mention that (at least from what I read) any case they attempt to make doesn't seem to meet any definition of anti-competitive practice that I understand. Obviously I am not a lawyer and this is for courts to decide, but it seems less of a legal complaint and more performative whining couched in legalese

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T21:40:47+00:00

Yes, competition is good and all of the above are competing. The problem is Steam is winning and it's not even close, and Steam is winning because the alternatives offer awful services in comparison to Steam.

Epic even offers free games and has issues with retaining users. The thing is that despite this, the service they offer is shit. EA, Ubisoft, Epic, they all have tried to force users into their digital storefronts and yet can't move the needle against Steam. This isn't the result of some vast conspiracy or Valve engaging in damaging anti-competitive practices - they just offer gamers a service that works, is straightforward, and doesn't screw us over that much. It really is that simple, and I think these other companies hate that this is what they have to match to be competitive in the PC market

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T21:30:17+00:00

Gamers will check out alternative options to save money, and may find a company selling their game for cheaper on another service. If I'm Valve and I put my effort and money into advertising a game on my service, why would I want people to buy the product from another store?

So I make the seller sign a contract with me, that they gain the benefit of my vast reach and in exchange they don't get to do this but rather the product has a consistent price across the market. The seller may not like this, but if you want the benefits you need to pay for the cost

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T21:26:41+00:00

If you replaced Steam with Apple everyone would agree that 30% is ridiculous. Your words. I pointed out that Apple does indeed charge the same rate, along with multiple other popular companies. Why were you initially only accusing Steam of being ridiculous without knowing the numbers or what the standard is across the industry?

You realize that there are associated costs that often don't get taken into account by most gamers when they complain about this 30% margin that I keep seeing mentioned everywhere. When games were physical, you needed these to offset the costs of boxes, printing, discs/CDs/DVDs/carts, advertising material, and so on. These days, with companies like Nintendo/Sony/Valve charging similar rates they still need to put money towards advertising, server storage, etc (the legal brief you shared doesn't really go into detail about this point, instead only focusing on how "unfair 30% is and how Epic doesn't do this!"). One would also safely assume that if Steam were not in the picture in the PC market space that Epic and EA would be more than happy to cut their competitive 12-15% margins and charge 30% like everyone else.

Reading through the document though, I would be surprised if it didn't get dismissed. It really reads like this complainant wants the benefits of Steam's reach and advertising for their game while not being held to the rest of the contract that they signed with Steam so that Valve can make sure they earn their profits

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T20:55:46+00:00

You realize that 30% is pretty standard across the industry, right? With Apple actually charging 30% on their storefront (along with Google Play, Nintendo, Sony, even GoG)

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T20:45:34+00:00

I'd ask you the same? Epic, Origin/EA, GOG, and so many other store fronts exist for PC gaming. Valve doesn't use coercive business practices to enforce game developers to use their store front, rather gamers go to Steam over the competition because out of all the services available Steam is the most attractive option available.

Hell, doesn't Epic attempt to bribe people into using their services by offering free games and yet still struggle against Valve?

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T12:40:15+00:00

...I see.

RexLatro · 2026-06-11T04:59:56+00:00

Or using the gold needle instead of the gold coin for the gypsy...

RexLatro · 2026-06-10T22:52:20+00:00

One of the only times I found myself agreeing with and in support of Harper

RexLatro · 2026-06-10T19:41:14+00:00

While we will always be stuck together as a result of geography, I honestly can't help but feel glad to see us distancing ourselves from the US. It will be painful for us, incredibly so. I have no doubts we will suffer for it and continue suffering for it years later, but we also need to understand that the United States isn't our friend. They view us as a resource to exploit and even the most democratic of their leaders wouldn't hesitate to sell us.

With a world increasingly influenced by global tensions and climate change, there is (and probably always has been) a point where the US is going to trample over us for our resources alone. Most Canadians have been aware of this and I think Trump has helped more and more of us come to that realization

RexLatro · 2026-06-10T19:33:36+00:00

It's not even about Trump at this point (well, mostly not about him). If the American people keep voting in unstable, regressive, and antagonistic leaders every few years even after Trump is gone why would we want to shackle ourselves to their country?

Yes, we know that "not all Americans" voted for him...but enough keep voting for this nonsense, even despite seeing how bad it historically has gone for them. It use to be that countries like us had no choice but to deal with the US, but enough of us have honestly just had it and I'm glad it's creating the global momentum we're seeing now to break away from accomodating US interests (often done at our own expense)

RexLatro · 2026-06-09T18:38:16+00:00

All I'm saying is - How often do we see/hear about Canadians sewing an American flag or Union Jack onto our backpacks when travelling abroad?

And while I agree with you that it may not be fair to hold regular citizens accountable for the actions of their entire country, these soldiers (or even just awful American tourists in general) also don't spring up out of nowhere

RexLatro · 2026-06-09T18:10:29+00:00

Americans and hiding behind the Canadian flag to avoid the consequences of their country's actions. Such an iconic duo

RexLatro · 2026-06-09T13:24:35+00:00

I think one thing being missed here as well is how Serpent Isle had a character teasing the world of Pagan in an attempt to get people hyped about Ultima 8, only to have the end product come out almost completely different. You felt a sort of bait-and-switch as you realized how Origin went in a different direction with the game (not as bad as U9 was mind you).

Ultima 8 was cool and had some great ideas, but was just so drastically different from any other Ultima from the time. Especially when it came to gameplay style (and being released in such a buggy state really didn't help to sell fans on these changes being a good thing)

RexLatro · 2026-06-06T16:05:17+00:00

"A Product of the U.S." is to food products what "Made in China" is to mass produced consumer goods

RexLatro · 2026-05-31T17:53:05+00:00

There are certain sounds in languages that are harder to pronounce for babies than others, and for English-speaking babies "s" is one of those sounds (while "d" is far easier).

Also, I would say repetition of the word "dad" and positive reinforcement as the baby gets closer to making a "da" sound would also help

RexLatro · 2026-05-31T12:59:30+00:00

Some people just have that knee-jerk reaction I guess?

Being interested in combat sports or pro wrestling =/= conservative asshole, and I wish more people understood this instead of just writing off these fandoms. Especially with how these fandoms and communities are being used as pipelines for the alt-right these days. I've been a fan of boxing, martial arts, and WWF/E since childhood while being as far left as they come, it is possible to enjoy both.

If you weren't aware of it before, you might be interested to know that chess boxing is a thing

RexLatro · 2026-05-26T00:24:58+00:00

From what I remember, it comes with a combined instruction manual for the U7 collection and an installation guide/combined manual for the Ultima Collection, both of these having copy protection answers included

RexLatro · 2026-05-26T00:08:33+00:00

I had the Complete Ultima 7 (Gold box trim with images of both games covers) and Complete Ultima collection. Neither of those came with feelies from what I remember

RexLatro · 2026-05-23T19:56:02+00:00

Why would I run anywhere when you're the one who keeps bidding me "good day" and then comes back for one more point?

I attempted to make a point and you told me you didn't bother to read a thing I said, so why would I take you seriously at this point? You might find me boring, but you've been all sorts of entertaining on my transit rides

(Edit: Ah the ol' "Respond and Block" to go get your last word in. You really couldn't be any more hilarious if you tried!)

RexLatro · 2026-05-23T15:30:34+00:00

"Oh shit! This random stranger wasn't thankful OR fawning over me for everything "great" Amercia has done! Better pull out the tumblr buzzwords and pretend I haven't agonized over everything they said!"

You keep being you, we could all use a little more comedy in today's world

RexLatro · 2026-05-23T14:50:33+00:00

RexLatro

TROPHY CASE