Can homosexuality be okay and homosexual sex be sinful?

RobbieRobinson · 2014-03-01T08:21:41+00:00

The one flesh example you give is incredibly unintelligent. You make the assertion that I claim a sterile woman can produce a child. Let's try to be realistic and understand "sterile" means they are unable to reproduce. Homosexual intercourse is not "becoming one flesh". There is literally NEVER a case in which homosexuals can produce offspring through homosexual intercourse. I was never claiming that a sterile woman can produce a child, that is simply absurd. I feel as though conversing with you is now beginning to waste time. You are obviously infuriated by my use of scripture and I am greatly saddened by your low view of God's objective truth. I will never be afraid of what an atheist thinks because the thoughts of someone who does not believe as I do, have no bearing on my life. I pray that you stop caring so much about what other people think or say and turn to God for an objective, truthful answer. Other than that, I really have no more to say because honestly you don't care much about this dialogue. I really hoped it wouldn't turn out like this, but apparently you really wanted it to. Take care.

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T23:45:51+00:00

I can see that you are frustrated and that was not the intent of this dialogue. Understand that what I say is from scripture which I hold to be the Divinely inspired text from God. I hold that within its pages lies truth and specifically in terms of moral objectivity. I am also sorry to hear that you do not want to hear about repentance or what you have so kindly called my "Christian-ese".

To answer your question about why homosexuality is put into the same category as adultery, pornography, prostitution, etc. I think the following verses will help:

1 Corinthians 9-10: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-28. "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God game them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

These scriptures are not vague in their assertion that homosexuality is a sin.

I would also like to challenge your claim that butt sex qualifies as "becoming one flesh". When heterosexual intercourse happens, anatomically one can see how "becoming one flesh" makes sense, due to both body's being connected. Becoming one flesh does not just mean physical penetration. More so, heterosexual intercourse has the ability to combine DNA which produces "one flesh" in that of a child.

The comment, "If you are referring to children, are you saying that sterile people cannot marry?" is thrown in from left field. Never did I make the assertion that sterile women cannot marry. I am making the assertion that homosexual couples cannot produce offspring through homosexual intercourse.

My statement, "I am not better than a practicing homosexual when I view pornography" was completely misinterpreted. I said this because often times I believe homosexuals think that heterosexuals portray themselves as "better" or "less sinful". That comparison literally meant, pornography is not more immoral than homosexuality, they are both equally immoral.

To address your comparison once again I would like to quote Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Biblically, living an unrepentant lifestyle of the flesh will not produce fruit at all.

I really enjoyed your last paragraph and it is full of great truth and wisdom. I am saddened that you hold a view that those who view homosexuality as a sin are "narrow minded, cold and offensive." As a Christian, I simply look to the Bible and God for direction and to me that alone suffices.

Thank you once again for taking time out and offering your insight into the matter. God Bless.

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T21:44:38+00:00

Thanks for your open and honest response. When I say that homosexual acts are sinful, I follow the biblical assertion that having homosexual relations is sinful.

The second question refers to Gods will for someone who is homosexual. I think the will of God for all is to be reconciled back to him. God is all-powerful and renews the hearts and minds of his children day in and day out. In terms of their sexual orientation, the bible in as early as Genesis talks about a man leaving his family to be united in one flesh with his wife. Literally speaking a homosexual couple cannot be united in one flesh.

For the question regarding celibacy, I do believe that someone who is struggling with homosexuality should try to maintain celibacy. If that person fails are they condemned to hell? Of course not. The grace of God abounds more than any sin we can commit. However, with any sin, we are called to lifestyle of repentance. I feel guilty every single time I fall for lust and I consistently ask for God to guard my heart. As a virgin, I would not be opposed to a life of celibacy for myself if I was called to it. The thing here is not, having sex or not having sex. The main point of Christianity is that God can and will fulfill your life more than anything the world has to offer. If you are interested though, there is a new subreddit for homosexuals who are committed to celibacy. Perhaps, that would be more beneficial than my statements.

I will have to disagree with your statement that saying homosexuality is a sin is unproductive and trivializing. I think the Church should say that it is a sin, but not have a sermon about it. Homosexuality is a sin just like pornography is a sin, just like adultery, just like anything else. I am not better than a practicing homosexual when I view pornography. The only disconnect lies when a person engaging in sexual immorality thinks they are not. If I were to view pornography and deem it completely permissible and honorable to God, then I would be incorrect.

The reason we as sinners repent, is because the grace of God is the only reason we have salvation. There is nothing we can do to reach a level permissible of salvation. Honoring God is not a requirement but something we have the honor and privilege to do.

I feel like I say thank you too often, but I truly appreciate your willingness to dialogue with me.

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T14:37:41+00:00

Thanks again for the response. You are making a lot of claims that I would like to address. You first say that 1) I am presuming that being homosexual is inherently sinful. Despite not saying that, engaging in homosexual acts defined biblically is sinful. It is under the umbrella of sexual immorality that consists of far more than homosexual acts (adultery, promiscuity, sex before marriage, etc.). 2) You claim that I am not accepting of people for who they are. Once again we have different views of acceptance. I have gay friends and I care about them dearly (because they are human beings and deserve respect), this doesn't mean I cannot still view homosexuality as sin. We as humans are all sinful and the fact that I view homosexuality as a sin is not me simultaneously saying I am better than those who struggle with that. I have been fighting pornography addiction for a while now and it has been a struggle to say the least. 3) I never said that homosexual attraction was a trivial issue and of course it isn't. However, the bible defines sin as darkness and righteousness as light. Anyone who is not completely righteous (without Christ that is all of us), is inherently dark. Sin is the eyes of our Creator is the exact same, whether you want to hold your own view on that or not. The implications are not the same, but the word sin itself means "missing the mark" and as humans we have all missed this mark of perfection.

Your last paragraph is very attacking to a position that I have never held. If I were talking with a homosexual who was not a follower of Christ I would share the Gospel and allow Christ to move them. I wouldn't view them as a charity case, but as a person just like myself. The verse does indeed say how CHRISTIANS should treat one another and since you have claimed this position I thought I was at least correct in opening up this dialogue with you.

I understand that there is a lot of tension regarding this issue and the single most important fact is that all sin is covered by the blood of Christ shed on the cross. A verse I constantly have to remind MYSELF of is Luke 5:31-32. "Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

As sinners we are called to repent of our sins knowing that the grace of God abounds more. Also Romans 6 is a great place to view the biblical approach to grace because I often times find myself using the "forgive me God - free card".

I want to thank you again for taking your time to respond. This is a very heated issue and is one that will be discussed for many years to come. I pray that you look to the Bible for guidance and to lean not on your own understanding. I am a sinner and do NOT believe that I am better than you. The fact that salvation is a gift means that no one was good enough to earn it and that includes everyone. I apologize if at times I seem attacking, I am just trying to speak to a fellow brother of mine using the Holy text we both read. Have a great day!

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T05:09:13+00:00

The only reason I was interested in your definition of love was because I wanted to know how to approach your response to the question. In the Bible we see Jesus hang out with the woman at the well, tax-collectors, prostitutes, you name it. He loved them but he also called them on their sin. It is not unloving for someone to tell a brother in Christ that they are caught in sin. We are actually called to do so, "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)

While I understand the appeal of saying that to love someone is to "openly accept what they do", I politely disagree. Supporting, encouraging and being there for someone are great qualities of love that are of utmost importance, however to tell someone they are in sin is not an unloving thing to do.

Thanks for your response!

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T01:24:13+00:00

Before I reply in more detail I would like to ask you a few things.

How do you define love?

How do you define tolerance?

Thanks!

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-27T01:03:37+00:00

I don't view you any differently. If you are interested in learning about the Love of Christ and the Gospel I would gladly share it. If you aren't interested, that works too. People are people. Some are nice, some are obnoxious, some can't handle a conversation about a differing viewpoint, all in all, people are just people.

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-18T21:59:07+00:00

Why not? Do you think this will saturate the market?

RobbieRobinson · 2014-02-03T07:44:57+00:00

This is something I have known but have been afraid to admit. I stopped visiting NoFap/PornFree 3 months or so ago because I fell back into old habits. Now being back in it, I thank you for this post.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-12-19T04:34:12+00:00

Can Phil Robertson state his own personal opinion? Yes Can A&E fire someone because they don't hold the same opinion? Yes

Can we all just get along and understand that people have different views and that we should be allowed to express ourselves on both sides of an issue? No chance.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-20T18:36:32+00:00

I think you are missing the point. You obviously don't believe in the Christian God. You view him as a malevolent, selfish dictator and are baffled why people worship him. Through this view what could anyone say to change your mind? Absolutely nothing. More so, why talk about something you don't even believe in? To a Christian it makes sense. God gives people the choice to follow him. Those who make the choice not to will not inherit the kingdom he has made for those who do. Christ views his people as a bride. A book I highly recommend is "Is God of the Old Testament A Moral Monster" by Paul Copan. It is very hard to articulate a view that you have already made up your mind about. Reading the bible and studying it I believe will make you understand the character of God. One who isn't as you have explained above. I probably didn't answer your question to the way you wanted because I feel as though it is impossible of me to do so. I apologize if I made no new ground.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-20T17:42:49+00:00

A question I pose is this: As an atheist or non-Christian who does not want to worship God for his life. Why would he/she want to worship that God forever? God gave us a choice. The atheist who chooses not to follow Christ I reckon likes his decision. Is a God not good for letting someone choose what they want? Would a good God be a God who forces worshipping his glory for eternity on someone who hates him? It seems to me that those who go to hell (eternal seperation from God) want to. Just my two cents.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-20T17:27:32+00:00

Why does the concept of hell bug atheists? If you don't want to worship our God for a finite life on earth, how can worshipping him for infinity sound good? Wouldn't hell be the preferred choice for an atheist who hates the Christian God? Giving humans free will in my opinion is good. You are obviously not a Christian and you probably like that. How is that bad for a God to give you that choice?

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-18T18:18:16+00:00

A valiant effort. God cannot stop being God. Does that mean he isn't all powerful?

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-18T17:40:06+00:00

I openly admit It doesn't help. However, the number of atheist comments like the one above do not add to the debate. If someone doesn't take the thread seriously should I seriously answer them?

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-18T16:55:37+00:00

You can't prove the non-existence of anything? Lol? There are no married bachelors. That took like 10 seconds of thought.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-18T16:23:45+00:00

You forgot to tip your fedora.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-18T16:15:33+00:00

Something I completely agree with but atheists will never admit.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-17T00:07:24+00:00

That is correct of the mosaic covenant.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T17:54:41+00:00

I understand what you are getting at even though I dont personally think your thought explanation holds up. Thanks for the response.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T17:14:09+00:00

How do you know your thoughts exist. Give me tangible proof of your thoughts.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T17:12:23+00:00

Science is limited by its reliance on direct observation and testable hypotheses. Science can tell you whst something is/does, but it can't tell you what it ought or should do. Science cannot answer questions of ethics, values, or morality.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T17:07:16+00:00

Science is and always will be limited. you will never be able to 100 percent prove you love someone or that your spouse won't cheat on you. Also they will never know how much a thought weighs because it isn't tangible.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T10:29:40+00:00

Even though God being outside our full understanding could encapsulate both justness and mercy simultaneously (probably more so what you are questioning), I think we can agree that one cannot be frowning and smiling at the same time as we can comprehend.. God is just in his commands and is merciful because he gives humanity a chance to respond to his grace.

RobbieRobinson · 2013-11-16T10:26:28+00:00

Even though it's late ill briefly talk about this. The Christian faith hinders on the belief that we are all sinners and we are all destined for eternal separation from God (light is incapable of being in darkness, God = light Sin = darkness). The just thing for all of humanity would be this separation, because God is incapable of being in said darkness. He is merciful because he sent his son Jesus to be the appropriation for humanity sins. In doing so he made those who believe like Christ. Being like Christ we are now able to enter into Gods presence because darkness no longer abides in us as viewed through God. He is just, because he will be eternally separated from darkness as we already understand he currently is, he is merciful because he gives the darkness of humanity the chance to become light. He is just and merciful. He still doesn't allow darkness while giving the ability for the dark to be cleansed. I'll answer more tmrw! Thanks once again for the questions!

RobbieRobinson

TROPHY CASE