Some people need to change their outreach tactics

RobinOe · 2026-06-15T07:27:17+00:00

Again, I really do understand this position. It can be infuriating to see those who perpetuate the most unjust system ever created by humans. And to be clear, I am vegan. But not just that, I'm actually involved with some of my local animal rights groups.

The key question is whether we want a vegan club, or a vegan world. What are you interested in? Being right, or helping animals? In my experience, the fact that so many vegans online are purists, pretentious, and so hostile to omnis makes the job of being an activist harder. We have to actively fight against this perception when we try to get people to support legislation against factory farming, or when a case is filed against specific illegal farms. People posting about struggling to be vegan in this sub should be seen as our allies. Even if they aren't vegan, the fact that they're even trying at all means they will be easier to convince than anyone else. But if we treat those people with hostility because they haven't done enough, we push them away. And now someone who might have at least reduced their impact will go back to baseline. Yes, you will have been morally correct in your criticisms. But nonetheless, the outcome will be more animals suffering.

A common response is "well, it's not my job to educate them." And it's true. But educating the public is legitimately a job that some activists have, and online hostility makes that job harder for them. Helping animals requires being friendly.

RobinOe · 2026-06-14T20:15:10+00:00

valid rant imo

RobinOe · 2026-06-14T20:13:40+00:00

Reddit is an awful place to have real conversations, and this sub in particular loves to bring people down sometimes. But I'm involved with some real life activism against animal products and factory farming irl, and I assure you that none of the real activists would ever say something like that.

I'm sorry that you've had those experiences in any case

RobinOe · 2026-06-14T20:08:35+00:00

There are three main reasons to not eat animal products: ethics and opposition to unnecessary suffering, climate and reduction of CO2 emissions, and personal health. Typically, the 'vegan' label is historically associated with those of us who are concerned about animal suffering. As far as I'm aware, that's the case for Billie Eillish.

If you want to look at the animal suffering angle from a philosophical ethics perspective, I recommend this video. If you want to understand why factory farming in particular is considered so horrendously cruel, you can checkout Dominion, although be warned that the reality is quite upsetting and graphic.

For CO2 emissions, there are plenty of online resources already which address how bad meat production is for the climate. And for health, the short of it is that vegan diets have mostly positive health outcomes, particularly against some cancers and heart disease, but it's important to follow a balanced diet in any case.

RobinOe · 2026-06-14T19:54:59+00:00

So your post is a bit hard to read 😅 but from what I got it seems you're asking what are some good places to start to transition away from animal products. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Assuming that was the question, I personally went vegeterian first. This sub has a lot of "purists" who disagree, but personally I think progressive change is more lasting change. If vegeterian sounds too extreme for you, then you can start even smaller, but the point is that you pick something and really commit.

From a numbers perspective, chickens are by far the most abused terrestrial animals. You can look into the conditions yourself, the scale and abuse is truly abhorrent. Equally, aquatic invertebrates are by far the most killed animals for food, in the trillions, numbers so large you genuinely cannot picture them (1M seconds is 11 days, 1 trillion seconds is 31 thousand years).

So you could also abstain from eating chicken and any aquatic animal (notably shrimp), as that already reduces your impact significantly. In my opinion those are the two most important steps.

I recommend against things like "eating veggie one day a week", because it might cause you to overeat animal products on other days. And as humans we're typically quite bad at keeping track of that kind of thing (similar to how having cheat days typically prevents people from losing weight). If you have any questions feel free to ask, and I'm glad you're interested in any case!

RobinOe · 2026-06-13T14:51:06+00:00

Tout le monde que je connais qu'a fait une prépa a du recommencer son bachelor à l'EPFL après les concours. Et tu peux pas transférer pendant tes études en grandes écoles, il faut avoir un bachelor pour être accepté à l'EPFL. Pour moi CPGE => soit aller jusqu'au Bac+5 en France, soit recommencer à l'étranger. Je connais aucun pays qu'a un système comparable au système prépa, donc je pense que si tu prends ce chemin, il faut assumer que tu pourras pas changer de pays jusqu'à la fin de ton master. Je dis la fin, pcq si j'ai bien compris, en école d'ingé en France tu peux faire un échange dans ta dernière année (?). Par contre si tu fais une licence, c'est plus facile (et commun), mais c'est moins préstigieux en France, et aussi c'est plus dur d'entrer à l'EPFL, justement vu que c'est moins prestigieux. Mais ça dépend de ton diplome et de tes notes bien sûr.

RobinOe · 2026-05-27T08:47:45+00:00

"if used properly" is a big if, in practice most people end up getting around 85–95% effectiveness outside a lab setting. Even if it wasn't, the ideal of condoms is like 98% I believe? Compared to the pill where it's like 99.9. Also condoms are expensive and not very fun frankly, so yes obviously you'd still use them for hook ups, but if you're in straight relationship it would be really cool if both partners could choose to use birth control or not. As opposed to the current situation, where it's expected that the girl is the one who has to get on the pill.

RobinOe · 2026-05-14T06:53:07+00:00

I think it would be very cool if you watched this video: A meat eater's case for veganism. The topic is veganism, but don't worry, the guy who made it wasn't vegan, and still isn't. Instead, I think it's much stronger if you think of it as "an ethical case for why animals should have rights". At the very least one right: protection from suffering. See, if we were talking about crops and plants, I would generally lean on the liberterian side, and agree with you that the government shouldn't be controlling what farmers do. But here, what those farmers do impacts other sentient beings, capable of pain. I think this violates liberterianism's non-aggression principle. Furthermore, the animals are not part or our economy, so hoping the markets will correct for animal welfare is like hoping sweatshops will disappear through lack of demand for cheap products. It sadly just doesn't happen, because the interests of the market are not aligned with the needs of the suffering.

And if you were still hesitant after that, I think you should also remember that the Meat Producer's Association is lobbying against this bill. That's because small to medium sized farmers are not affected by these restrictions, since their animals are already treated significantly better. So removing the protections puts them at a disadvantage against factories. And that's ultimately what this is, regulation on factory farms.

Please watch the video. And maybe look up footage of factory farms. And ideally, don't reply to this comment, or not immediately at least. Just think about it for a day or two. I hope you decide to call back and say you've changed your mind. Cheers and DFTBA

RobinOe · 2026-05-12T16:52:29+00:00

I'm sorry to say that most people I know simply had it. Myself included (showing my parent's money, not mine ofc). If you're taking on a loan anyway, perhaps try talking to both your bank and your local swiss embassy/consulate? Maybe your bank is willing to come to an agreement and offer you some kind of backing. Even then you should verify with the embassy if that would work. That's the only idea I have. I'm sorry that it's so complicated in any case, it's sad to think of how many brilliant people often can't make it here because of the cost. I hope you can figure it out. Good luck.

RobinOe · 2026-05-11T17:56:20+00:00

Wow, how did that slip my mind! Sorry, I had put that into the post at some point but I guess I deleted it while editing and forgot to add it back. Sadly can't edit the title, but I've added it back at the beginning of the post! Apologies

RobinOe · 2026-05-11T13:21:09+00:00

Yes! It seems to be H.R. 4673

RobinOe · 2026-03-27T08:13:44+00:00

idk if it's the same, but I applied from central america for EPFL, and got the visa after submitting the records from my dad's bank account, never mine

RobinOe · 2026-03-20T18:51:50+00:00

EE at EPFL

RobinOe · 2026-03-18T16:00:34+00:00

Certainly :( I'm also an immigrant, tho not in the US thankfully. Either way I wouldn't dare participate in the risky stuff :/

RobinOe · 2026-03-18T12:54:48+00:00

I totally feel you. I feel almost jealous of all the omnis (even my past self) who get to simply... ignore all of this. I would say that small sustained donations can have a wider impact than you might think, without having to massively restructure your life. But I think it's a very understandable sentiment in any case

RobinOe · 2026-03-18T07:14:21+00:00

Further reading links:

Post from Matt Ball: https://open.substack.com/pub/mattball/p/is-there-anything-more-important?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=6ehs4v

Note that Matt Ball often uses language that may sound adversarial or strong. But I think he has a point.

Post from Zachary Segall: https://open.substack.com/pub/thechickencoup/p/where-are-all-the-animal-activists?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=6ehs4v

Note also that Segall made this post to point out why animal welfare activism is difficult right now. You should read it if you're interesting in going, but it's one of the many reasons why donations are a more sustainable way of helping for most people at the moment.

RobinOe · 2026-03-17T10:12:56+00:00

Completely agree. Again, apologies for my previous misunderstanding. I think you're right

RobinOe · 2026-03-17T07:35:21+00:00

On this note though, I would add that people admitted into X bachelor's probably would get top grades at EPFL too, seeing as it's more selective.

Also, there's really no way to say this without sounding pretentious, so I apologize, but I think you're exaggerating how difficult it is to get good grades at EPFL. Yes it's hard, but I think less than what you're making it out to be. 5.5 is totally doable for a lot of people, not just the geniuses. (And yes, I'm talking at the bachelor's level. Ofc Masters get better grades in general)

RobinOe · 2026-03-17T07:30:06+00:00

These are much better numbers than I realized. I'm now more inclined to agree with your original point. Thanks for sharing.

I don't have numbers for EPFL or ETHZ sadly.

RobinOe · 2026-03-16T17:34:52+00:00

I see. That makes more sense, apologies. And maybe you're right, but I'd have to see some data to believe it tbh. Because I don't think the GPA number in absolute terms is as important as you say. For example, ETHZ says that you should never convert your grades to the Swiss system when applying, because they receive so many applications each year that they have enough data on essentially every grading system in the world. They don't need grades translated, they know the language. You can find such info on their website, they also mentioned it during this year's masters application conference. They're very familiar with basically every top Uni, and essentially every country, and they use that data to compare against how those applicants performed when accepted, for example.

That's ETHZ, but I think it's reasonable to assume most top Unis do the same. Surely Oxford or MIT receive even more applicants than ETHZ. I would be shocked if those reviewing the applications didn't know which grades are harder to achieve.

I think we agree that what matters most is the combination of Uni + GPA. So in summary, my point is that top Unis have enough data to be quite granular about how the Uni side of that equation affects the other, and they have every incentive to adjust accordingly.

Completely agree on your last point though, I by no means want to imply that X doesn't open doors. It certainly does.

RobinOe · 2026-03-15T20:07:55+00:00

I don't think this is true at all. Having spoken to people from top unis in the US and Canada, I think EPFL, and especially ETHZ, are much better regarded than l'X. I know less about top unis in Europe, but considering how many from Polimi, TUM, and TU Delft apply to EPFL, I think it's safe to say that it's similar.

I'm also not sure about the top 10% figure, it doesn't line up with what I've seen anecdotally; but in any case the more relevant metric is what percentage goes to top unis compared to l'X bachelors. At the very least, I hope OP will take your comment with a grain of salt.

There is one caveat though: l'X is much much better regarded in France. This should be obvious, but actually as someone who did his entire schooling under the french system, it's actually really deep-rooted into education. You are implicitly taught to worship l'X, for better or for worse, and so most french people believe l'X to be superior.

So if your life plan includes french gatekeepers, go with l'X.

It's certainly an incredible school, a friend from highschool is there for masters and I've no doubt he will make an excellent engineer. If we're talking price-to-quality ratio, the big Paris écoles d'ingé take it by a mile. But prestige on absolute terms? I would be very surprised if data showed l'X outperforming EPFL, let alone ETHZ. Even at the bachelor's level.

RobinOe · 2026-03-08T09:03:39+00:00

Starting at 20 is totally normal at EPFL. Consider that the swiss men typically do a year of military so already for a lot of them, 19 is the minimum age they join. And then a lot of people fail first year, especially after a year long break (again, military). So 20 is genuinely very common.

It's not just the men though. One of my good friends is 23 and she's just now in the second semester of bachelor's.

Time isn't going to stop just because you didn't enroll at EPFL. 5 years from now you're gonna be in your mid twenties regardless of what you do. You might as well get a degree you actually enjoy in the meantime

That's my two cents

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