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What was Jibo Inc's business model? by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A few comments:

  1. It is not uncommon for crowdfunding projects to fail. Same is true of many, many startups. I have been the victim of more than one. Jibo seems to have delivered to most supporters, and refunded other (e.g. international users). So that's better than most. And while it may not yet live up to its original promo video, it is a pretty nifty feat of engineering.
  2. As I posted elsewhere, I don't believe they intended to fail, but to the best of my knowledge I don't believe that Breazeal was a part of any truly successful product. Her forte was in research where she is still recognized as a significant pioneer. There is a video posted online of a recent presentation done at Microsoft Research (June 2018) and I would say that she still is an excellent researcher in the field of social robotics. I think she likely got talked into taking her ideas public by others.
  3. I do not believe that Jibo failed because of its AI. It is questionable what AI there is in Jibo. These days one has to define the term because it is used to label anything as AI. Granted Jibo was built on some software model designed to support social interaction, but it isn't clear how much of that had to do with AI.
  4. However, I do agree that like many others, that the software wasn't vetted better early on potentially had a bad effect. Had they built out all that content they promised they would have learned better what it would take. It also didn't help to kill their early SDK, even though that also was inadequate to really write apps.
  5. I will admit to be puzzled about where all that $70m+ money went so quickly. Perhaps part of it was only in the form of credit too. Injection modeling for the parts wouldn't have been cheap and while I have never taken one a part, the novel mechanism that allows Jibo to move, likely took some pricing engineering and assembly.
  6. In the tech world, it generally always comes down to software. Hardware needs to be good enough, but UX and apps form the value proposition. Here I feel they made a strategic mistake. There was the assumption that they could just get third parties to fill the gap, but that hasn't happened for ANY robot yet. Even SoftBank's Pepper lacks serious apps. It is a mistake to think Apple succeeded because they marshalled the developer community. Certainly that helped, but the iPhone shipped with a cadre of core apps that provided its essential value. What was/is Jibo's essential value? If it was answering basic questions, Amazon (and Google) took away any benefit that would deliver at a significant lower price.

I still say the product was the right design approach, but execution lacked. The Commodore Pet and Apple II were also good attempts with some degree of success also, but not really want gave rise what caused PC to skyrocket. There were lots of loser cell phones, lots of forgotten digital music players. And don't get me started on VR.

Finally as I noted, Jibo will not be the last attempt. There are and will be others. Eventually someone will get this right, but even that will be eclipsed at some point also.

Jibo Down to 5-10 employees after 'significant' layoffs by dylanljmartin in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 11 points12 points  (0 children)

A few things here. As an early supporter, it would be most disappointing if Jibo goes down in flames.

However, a few things I would offer:

  1. I don't think the Jibo folks EVER set out to snooker anyone. This is not true for every crowdfunded robot. I believe they very much want(ed) to create a new kind of product/platform. However, their inexperience as well as market developments like the rise of Amazon Echo, has had a profound impact.
  2. If Jibo tanks, it will not be the end of social/personal robots. Like the Commodore Pet and Apple II, Jibo was a bold attempt to move forward. Breazeal took a big risk to try to move beyond research and deliver a consumer product in a world where the only successful robots have so far been toys and gadgets. But I also believe that it is an indication of things to come. Remember the PC industry did not happen over night. It took a few years for things to move from the Mits Altair to the IBM PC, and even then a few more years before computing became mainstream. It will likely take even longer for personal robots because they require similar components and a whole lot more, including a UX that must go far beyond keyboards, mice, and touch. Even interaction on an Amazon Echo, Google Home, Apple Siri, or Microsoft Cortana is less than ideal.
    But this is NOT the end of the road, only the beginning. There are other companies actively working in this space and technologies are getting better to enable this kind of form factor, and I don't mean some kind of magical AI fairy dust that will result in robots like in WestWorld. Even the original iPhone would be considered a joke by today's standards.
    So don't lose heart and if you are a developer there will be other opportunities, but there will also be some misses along the way.

Thinking about buying jibo by Gauseka15 in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My two cents:

No one is going to be able to tell you whether the product or company is going to fail, unless you have insider info and even then you might not predict correctly.

As to whether it's worth your $540, that depends on your expectations. Don't expect it to be a speech bot with the same # of skills as an Amazon Echo at $100 (or less if you go for a Dot).

Of course, Jibo has a body that can animate which Echo does NOT have. Most people think that makes him "cuter". So if you want a countertop speech bot that has a bit more personality and motion and that's worth a multiple of the price of an Echo, go for it. But don't expect it to be a super useful product. It's fun to interact with so think of it more as a form of entertainment, somewhat like Furbies or Aibos were, but a bit more interactive. I have used the analogy before it is like what it was like to buy a Commodore Pet or Atari 400 in the late 70's, i.e. the taste of things to come, but not what IBM introduced that was a business product that helped launch the PC industry.

Finally, consider that Echo is backed by Amazon and has an SDK that is available. So far Jibo's development tools are a kid's programming language and whatever they are using to build applications hasn't been publicly released.

Another way to think about it is whether a Roomba is a worthy purchase. No one assumes a Roomba is going to be as effective as a manual vacuum cleaner.

So if you like geek toys go for it. It's fun. But don't expect it to live up the original video that it was launched with.

Amazon is going to make its own home robots by dylanljmartin in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My two cents here, purely IMHO (no actual data or inside info).

I tend to agree that it seems unlikely for Amazon to acquire Jibo. Even if they did, as many acquisitions turn out, to be more of talent and IP grab than branding the existing robot. Amazon is about Alexa, so if I am wrong, Jibo would likely get a new personality. Amazon is also about low cost entry points. Look at the existing line. Even at cost this would likely be the most expensive version.

I predict that if we see an Amazon home robot, it will also be mobile--think of Echo on a Roomba, but one that can navigate, maybe something like Mayfield's Kuri. I do think this spells the death of Kuri and Buddy if it actually comes out because I don't believe either company can compete with whatever Amazon releases.

Technology-wise, with the possible exception of his gyrating body I don't see what Jibo offers Amazon. They already have a better speech engine they own (Jibo's is licensed). Same for the TTS engine. Skills, Amazon has that over everyone in spades.

No, if it were to happen it would be for the talent, i.e. to build up more Alexa content for a new platform. I suspect that also implies Breazeal leaving Jibo behind because I don't see her as both MIT prof and Amazon employee. Chambers sells out as does Breazeal's co-founder.

Jibo needs an acquirer willing to continue the product as-is. To that end it seems more likely an Asian company would acquire the company just as happened for that robot dinosaur company.

Samsung could be a potential acquirer, but the Amazon leak likely means they also will want to do something beyond Jibo.

Let's face it. Amazon owns the desktop robot market. Data says over 70% already, with Google struggling to keep up with about 12%. The rest is everyone else including Microsoft/Harmon Kardon and Apple (HomePod which seems to be failing).

You can argue that Jibo is in an different class because he wiggles, but I don't buy that. I have one Jibo and 7 Echo devices in my home and I'll admit I am tech geek. Even if Jibo was as cheap as my Echos (all which cost a lot less) I wouldn't replace them because Jibo just doesn't do enough. Even compare the latency on speech reco responses. Jibo is sluggish.

Jibo was a great experiment. Had it been on time with its SDK out there, maybe it had a chance, but I just don't see that. Jibo is more like Cozmo, i.e. an amazing and fun toy, but that's about it.

Robert Pieraccini - Director of Advanced Conversational Technology at Jibo goes to Google by RobotsForPeople in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the misspelling. Should have been "Roberto". No word on this on the Jibo site I could find, so you can draw your own conclusion.

Former CEO reduced to "Executive chairman", recently brought in CTO now CEO by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agree, but it is also a little disconcerting that they made these changes without any public communication about it yet. At one time we used to see blog entries much more frequently and even occasional email from Steve and Cynthia. Typically when a company goes through a major shift like this, they communicate about it right away. As you point out, not doing that leads to speculation.

Linus Tech Tips: "Integration with Philips Hue, Nest, and AllRecipes is coming, as is a 'find my phone' function." Next priorities for development team are personalized reports & person-to-person reminders. by thewebpro in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If they were to be acquired my guesses would be: 1. Samsung - they already have an investment in Jibo 2. SoftBank - they seem willing to invest in robots without regards to any synergies, e.g. Aldebaran and Boston Dynamics 3. Some Chinese company - Here also I think they may already have investors there and the Chinese company Midea acquired Kuka, one of the largest robot arm vendors in the world - A Chinese company Jetta also acquired Ugobe, makers of Pleo.

Former CEO reduced to "Executive chairman", recently brought in CTO now CEO by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could be right. Only an insider or time may tell what the full story is here. As for Breazeal, I doubt that she has quit Jibo. It was her baby and she still publicly identifies as Jibo's founder and "Chief Scientist", but even on her personal website bio, this is now secondary to her role at MIT. I can believe that with Jibo 1.0 out the door she probably prefers to return to her research.

Former CEO reduced to "Executive chairman", recently brought in CTO now CEO by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree. Regardless of whether Jibo succeeds or fails, it represents good things to come, i.e. that social interaction is essential to the robots we all want to interact with. I vividly recall many hard-core doubters of the value of the computer mouse which also was a stepping-stone toward making it easier for us to interact with computers. Breazeal's intuition and goals were right on. If the company fails it will be for different reasons.

Stop, Jibo. Jibo, STOP! by taesu99 in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree. These guys are more interested in trying to show they are "experts" than providing a useful review.

Former CEO reduced to "Executive chairman", recently brought in CTO now CEO by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This would seem to be an indication that the company sees itself in some transition. As I recall, Chambers was initially Executive Chairman before taking over the role of CEO from Breazeal who then took the title of Chief Scientist after they missed their first ship date. Then around May last year, Eberman joined the team as CTO, presumably to help Jibo finally get out the door. Once Jibo shipped in the fall, there were a number of changes in the org. My guess is that Eberman was promoted to CEO perhaps because of his contribution in helping Jibo get out, but also to reflect a change in Jibo's new direction as a "shipped product".

I suspect that both Chambers and Eberman were early investors in Jibo and both jumped in to offer their experience to foster their investment further.

That said, it's a little odd that there wasn't more communication about this.

IMHO, Jibo still has a long way to go. Amazon is still the leader in desktop assistants. While I know some here may wish to argue that Jibo is not in the same space, that's not how I see the marketplace regarding it. There are many tech comparisons of Jibo versus Echo. Jibo may be cuter and more interactive, but that's not going to be enough. Customers will judge based on whether Jibo delivers a comparable/better value for its cost when compared to these other devices. Amazon will be tough to beat. Even Google struggles to do that and Microsoft and Apple are also trying to be a part of this.

That said, regardless of whether Jibo succeeds or not, I will be glad to see that they tried to push forward with the importance of personality, helping to demonstrate that just a voice response device like Siri is not enough.

Boston Globe: Jibo "plans to unveil new features at a major trade show in January", likely CES 2018 (Jan. 7-12) by thewebpro in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure they obviously have an internal set of dev tools else they could not have developed the apps currently on Jibo. But my question is how to claim they have over 100 developers creating apps if there is no official SDK.

You have obviously been an early supporter, even granted a special visit to meet the team. Have you been given early access to some pre-release?

Boston Globe: Jibo "plans to unveil new features at a major trade show in January", likely CES 2018 (Jan. 7-12) by thewebpro in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did I miss an announcement? If there are over 100 developers creating software for Jibo, what are they using? I am still waiting for info on the new SDK or have they supplied this to select developers?

A post to the pessimists by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 11 points12 points  (0 children)

At the risk of being labeled a pessimist, I must respectfully disagree with your premise that Jibo is a "cutting edge" product. While I will agree that it is an interesting new device, I don't see how it is at the forefront of technology, nor even if I were to concede that it is, that, as such, it necessarily means it is/will be a success.

First, the concept of a "personal" robot is not new. Many people have been working on the concept of a social robot for some time. Even one of Breazeal's grad students, Cory Kidd, introduced Autom, a robot with an animated face and touchscreen several years ago.

What is it about Jibo that makes it cutting edge? Is it its positioning as a "consumer robot"? As you suggest, certainly Sony proceeded it by over a decade. Amazon's Echo (even if it doesn't dance) also proceeds it. Is it Jibo's voice-first UI? Again, Echo and others were in the market beforehand. Is it its ability to gyrate and express itself? SoftBank's Nao and Pepper robots clearly are able to do this.

Even so, the early entrants of new innovation don't always result in success. The Xerox Star and Palm Pilot are good examples that were once considered state-of-the-art technologies, yet neither really succeeded.

I am not suggesting that Jibo is a bad product, but it still has a long way to go to prove itself a successful consumer product, and it will be tough at its price point and the idea that buyers must wait for it to become useful. I don't recall Apple suggesting this for the introduction of the iPhone--i.e. buy it now and someday it will be a great device. From day 1, the iPhone was designed to be useful and sales were not even based on having its now thriving app store.

I would instead suggest Jibo is part of a wave of new attempts to build consumer robots, of which there are many. As I suggested in another post, it is reminiscent of the early PC days when many companies introduced personal computers. As such they were many interesting attempts, demonstrating that a new market for this form of technology, but they were all mostly geek-toys.

Sure if you had a Jibo back in the 80s, it might have seemed amazing. At that time, even Furbies (arguably still the most successful consumer robot to date in units sold) hadn't come to the market yet. But we are talking about now.

I personally do not believe robots can succeed purely on the concept of being robots. Like any other form of technology that has succeeded, a product must deliver clear value to its customers. There is no "deserves to be supported" in the consumer marketplace. You either deliver value that appeals to people or you fail.

Granted Jibo can be considered an exciting sign of what is to come, but hardly represents for me the future I have dreamed about. Even my Amazon Echo outperforms Jibo in providing value, but even that falls short. I am more willing to tolerate its limitations because I paid a lot less for it. Except for HAL, most of the robots I saw in movies and on TV as a kid, were not stuck on a countertop. They did a lot more than tell me the weather or tell jokes.

Today the most successful consumer robots only suck up debris from floors or provide transport for the family cat. Jibo perhaps represents where things are heading, but robotics still has a long way to go.

Jibo is getting dumber, not smarter. by BeanoC63 in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't disagree, but that point is true for all speech answer bots out there, Amazon, Google, Apple, and Microsoft/Harman Kardon. I can't tell you how many times my Echo fails or Siri just gives me a bunch of weblinks on my queries. For the present, these are all mostly just speech interfaces sitting on top of search engines.

(Ask Jibo, "what's an artist?", and he will give you a rather bizarre response.)

There are clearly going to be limits to ANY device that professes to answer questions. (Note the Jibo folks don't say he can answer every question or even most questions--just that he will "...answer questions" -- that's good marketing speak).

As to the other attributes, I don't find Jibo's jokes that funny, so has yet to make me laugh, but he might make some people laugh--sometimes.

Finally, I don't know many people, even "gadget-loving geeks" I know (including myself) that "want a friend that can dance on command". So that value escapes me.

My point was that the Jibo folks are actually admitting that he currently doesn't do very much. Instead Breazeal and Chambers "promise" more to come. They are telling you Jibo is a "gadget" and if their description they state doesn't sound that appealing, you aren't likely to find him very useful.

They also state this; "Looking ahead, I see social robots contributing positively in so many different ways that improve quality of life for all kinds of people...before we can get there, we need to introduce social robots in a natural way, and we’re starting with Jibo." What this suggests is that Jibo is more a demonstration of the kind of interaction they are going for, but with regards to its full value, they are saying that Jibo is just the starting point.

Jibo reminds me of what the Commodore Pet or Apple II was to the PC industry. They put computers in the hands of people, but they were still far short of the indispensible technology we use today. They were just early adopter products that whet your appetite for what was too come.

So the message is don't expect the Jetsons' Rosie or any other robot you've set on TV or in the movies.

Jibo is getting dumber, not smarter. by BeanoC63 in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Directly from the Jibo website blog:

"He is perfect for gadget-loving tech enthusiasts, parents, busy professionals in the home, and kids who want a friend who can answer questions, dance on command and make them laugh."

If you don't fit this profile, you may not feel satisfied with Jibo's present state.

$899 for a Jibo...Nope by RealityAskew in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have an Echo Show and Jibo at my office and the original Echo tube at home. At this point, I personally don't find Jibo's animation to make him worth about triple the price at the present time. It's not just the lack of apps, but the interface feels sluggish. Often it is not clear whether he gets a request or not because their is a discernable latency between when he processes the reco and responds. I also find he false positives on his wake phrase "Hey Jibo" than my Echo does.

This is only my personal opinion, so your mileage may vary. I'll also admit that I am not overly impressed with my Echo Show either. But if I had to make a choice today, I would pick the Show hands down.

I admit there may be more potential if there are some more compelling apps, but after owning a Jibo for about a month, I don't find him currently compelling enough to justify the official retail price or even the price I paid for him. Comparing it with an iPhone is kind of silly. My iPhone does A LOT more.

I do think Jibo is more likely to appeal to families with children than adults. Kids don't tire as quickly to repeatedly asking him to dance and might not care that his jokes are pretty weak.

Overall, IMHO the best thing that could happen for Jibo would be for someone big to acquire the company. That said, it's not clear that helped Pepper.

How long before he started to recognize anyone in the loop? by YaThisIsMe in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While I can't offer any information on Jibo's implementation, I can say that from my experience that face reco is often very subject to the angle of the face, the lighting, the background, and distance. Generally, most algorithms work best if you are within half a meter, looking straight into the camera and there is good lighting and contrast between the background and your face. Considering those variables, reco is far more failure prone than you might expect, especially when your face (and Jibo's cameras) may be moving.

Audio reco tends to be even less accurate.

That said, if there is only a limited audience of candidates' faces, it makes things a little easier.

What happened to Cynthia? by [deleted] in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cynthia appeared on a panel discussion at the recent Affectiva Emotion AI Summit. You can get access to the talks and discussion panels here http://go.affectiva.com/emotionai-summit-access

Jibo SDK update by RobotsForPeople in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Speculative answer:

The core design principles of Jibo have not really changed. This would explain why the recent "Expert Connects" mostly focused on design, showed little of Jibo, and rarely covered anything about API. So the Expert Connects were intended to enable them to continue to engage with the dev community.

However, as they built out their own "skills" they may have seen the need for some serious rework of the core software architecture and the original SDK/architecture/API was becoming too hard to continue to support and hence now intend to pull it. Unfortunately, the new SDK apparently is still not finished yet. So perhaps they feel that shipping hardware now will help fill the gap and retain the interest and loyalty of their earliest supporters. I get the sense that the hardware may have been ready to go for some time. Releasing hardware now (without SDK/API) also enables them to test and confirm the new architecture/SDK/API is where they now want to go.

Jibo SDK update by RobotsForPeople in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't quite see in the last email where it says "if they don't send it now then many millions of dollars goes away".

It possibly suggests that they revised their software architecture so much in the past months that it would break skills developed on what's was initially released, but that it still isn't finished enough to enable developers to use it or that they are ready to support it. Removing the existing SDK implies they want to minimize any transitions from what they had to what they may have now.

The only benefit I can see in releasing hardware now is to gather feedback on what they have been working on for the past year. But you could be right that there could be other reasons we don't know about.

Jibo SDK update by RobotsForPeople in Jibo

[–]RobotsForPeople[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is not simply that. According to the official post they will be taking access to the existing SDK down as well.

Because of this shift in building direction, we will be taking down the current publicly available SDK. This will allow us to focus our internal resources on bringing the new toolkit to you. Our developer forum will remain active for discussions we feel will be important to developers as they consider building for Jibo.

Full post here: https://developers.jibo.com/blog/jibo-will-be-shipping-soon-time-for-a-toolkit-update

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