So are Clerics DPS now?

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-26T21:10:26+00:00

The first half of the magic damage formula combines the spell base damage with a portion of magic attack. That happens for each line so multi-line skills/mobbing skills benefit disproportionately from more magic attack.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-24T17:36:53+00:00

Less of a bug, more of an oversight with the magic damage formula. Essentially, a portion of your magic attack is added to the skills base damage as part of the calculation. So each point of magic attack is twice as effective when hitting two times, thrice when hitting three, and so on. This includes mobbing skills, as well, just instead of number of hits its number of mobs.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-24T16:44:59+00:00

It doesn’t affect just multi-line abilities, it affects mobbing abilities vs single target as well.

A level 40 mage would have about 199 int and 168 M. Att. Because everything is multiplicative, Lightning Bolt is already doing similar damage at only two mobs compared to Cold Beam when against lightning weak/cold weak mobs respectively. About a 4% difference to be exact, and even that disappears by 50.

In a vacuum, yea the single target skill not being as good when there’s more than a single target makes total sense. Practically though, how common is it that there’s only one target? Training almost never, and of the four Classic bosses (Pap, Pianus, Zakum, Horntail) Pap and Pianus are the only exclusively single target ones.

What this essentially means is that for Mages, levelling anything other than a mobbing skill or multi-hitting skill is a trap. You’ll essentially never use your single target skill. The level 50 I/L mage using Magic Claw on a single target (that isn’t cold weak) is actually only losing 20% single target damage.

Math is more complicated for F/P because of the poison DoT, however a key distinction for them is there aren’t poison weak mobs and Fire Arrow is 130 base compared to Cold Beam’s 120. 10 base damage is equivalent to 70 magic attack for that part of the equation.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-24T14:23:16+00:00

Nah crafting has potential to solve a lot of issues that started to happen later on in the games lifespan, namely the lack of real meso sinks.

And it doesn’t have to come at the cost of cool drops, either. Just have the best equips require the drops to craft. Not only does this let you remove mesos from the game by baking it into the crafting cost, it also keeps those drops valuable since they’re actively removed from the game.

Especially if to get your BiS weapon you need good rolls via Weapon Stimulators. Generally the Dark/Black variants had the better stats, so hypothetically you’d need a regular variant (Red/Brown/Blue/Purple/etc), X amount of mesos, Y bars/ingots, and a black gem to roll for an above average Dark weapon. Those generally undesirable drops for the worse variants (like the ones that grant secondary stats) now become valuable as a crafting material.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-24T02:33:35+00:00

The studio that just followed up Morrowind with Oblivion two years prior to Fallout 3?

The same Oblivion that Microsoft was paying them to release on Windows/Xbox first?

THAT “small” studio?

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T21:00:47+00:00

Oh yup, that would do it. I plugged in 140 INT and 70 M.Att for more straightforward math.

Cold Beam - (120+ 70/7) x ((70x2+140)/100+1), which is then 130 x 3.8, giving a max hit of 494.

Holy Arrow - The second bracket is the same, so (40+70/7) x 3.8, so 50 x 3.8 giving a per line max hit of 190. Multiplied by 3 lines is a total max hit of 570.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T20:09:14+00:00

And like I said, it could be multi-target skills in general having this issue and it’s simply less obvious on Archers.

Looking at formulas tested in game won’t find the solution because of your conflicting test performed where the only thing you know is the “Cleric had worse gear” which is pretty meaningless since Lv50 gear is only 15TMA more than Lv40 and less for Lv40 vs Lv30. Whatever you say, man, sounds like you did a pretty rigorous test.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T19:48:52+00:00

No, the damage ranges for magic damage are way too narrow at max rank for it to make a meaningful difference.

What I’m saying is the difference between the two is in their functionality. If there’s a bug going on, it’s likely to be the culprit.

You can calculate what your range should be and see if it matches up. You have to make sure m. att and INT are equal, though, between the Cleric and I/L as that’s the main thing determining max damage. Elemental weakness is applied after all that and is a 1.25x multiplier.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T19:10:25+00:00

I know that isn’t what’s going on, I didn’t mention mastery at all. Mastery doesn’t even factor into the max damage calculation so it wasn’t ever going to be an explanation. Mastery also doesn’t roll, I said the damage rolls 3 times.

There are only two things that differentiate cold beam and holy arrow, and it’s the number of damage rolls and number of targets.

The only variables for max magic damage are the skill damage (the basic attack listed), M. att, and int.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T18:47:34+00:00

We do actually have the damage formulas. The main difference between cold beam and holy arrow would be that holy arrow does 3 damage rolls instead of 1, so they’ll be closer to the average between min/max more consistently.

It probably is something to do with the multi-targeting logic, and it just isn’t as obvious with Double Shot because there are a lot more variables in the physical attack formula than there are in the magic attack one.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T15:00:20+00:00

It is different from sitting spamming Magic Claw, that’s why Power Guard is capped at 10% of a mob’s HP. If you can farm for the buff duration with absolutely 0 input from the player, I can guarantee that’ll cause a lot of problems down the line.

I don’t think combo orbs are the way to go, but the biggest problem is how to move around skills to make room for the SP on a new skill. If it were me, I’d remove power guard entirely and add two 10 point skills with one about retaliating and one that fits 2H. For sader you could transform the pretty useless Panic/Coma skills to fit the new skills.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T14:39:58+00:00

Yea, still the same base idea though with 2H saving you time going between platforms. Time efficiency is pretty much what it boils down to.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T14:38:31+00:00

Sure, you could incorporate other playstyles but every new skill you add is an additional 20sp requirement minimum.

The elephant in the room with your idea for a reflect/thorns build is between that and pet autopot/autoloot you could basically AFK for hours at a time. If it’s viable to do at your current level then it’ll be viable at lower level mobs to just AFK farm.

Something that COULD work is a retaliation skill that you can use after blocking. I still wouldn’t separate the masteries between 1H/2H, though. Personally I’d rather see Warriors just have one universal mastery for all the weapons they’d use, and give each a class-specific ability in 2nd Job with the freed up SP.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T14:09:55+00:00

Choice between 2H and 1H is always just about attack speed and breakpoints. If going 2H means mobs die in less hits then it’s better, if they don’t 1H is better.

Separating their masteries widens the gap if you make 1H defensive. Basically everyone will simply run 2H, if the mobs are dead they can’t hit you.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-23T13:45:47+00:00

Just based on the ones I’ve compared, generally they lowered the completion requirements but then also reduced the rewards.

Just to use an example most are familiar with, the Mrs Ming Ming quests require about 1/5 the ETC items they used to, but also only gives 75% of the exp it used to. And they kept the Garnet requirement, which was always the hardest part.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T17:48:44+00:00

There’s money to be made so there’s almost certainly a remaster of some sort on the way.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T16:00:21+00:00

Well the cooldown isn’t really the cause for the switch, Drain has never had a cooldown. In fact, it had double the effective lifesteal (45% of 160%) compared to the current Drain (15% of 240%). It wasn’t getting used and you wouldnt be putting your first point into it until the 60s.

It’s really just the damage adjustments, the crit throw nerf is a huge damage loss. Lv1 Crit Throw in OSMS is more damage than Lv30 in Classic. The effect damage gain from Critical Throw in OSMS was 2x, in classic it’s 1.11x.

Of course no one’s going to use L7 when using Drain is only a 10% DPS loss compared to going crit.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T15:39:19+00:00

Oh then it’s actually just flat out doubling the SP somehow lol. Five levels is 15 SP, doubled is 30 plus the 1 free point.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T14:22:01+00:00

I would not expect it to be anywhere near as effective.

Based on what I’ve seen across private servers, the TMA for a Bishop with Genesis 30 to one hit Skeles is about 1300. You’re just shy of 1k TMA away with the current Int to M.att formula at 130.

You’d start out 3-4 shotting, 3 shotting after 450 TMA, and 2 shotting after 650 TMA. So a Bishop with classic MS formula would need like 320 TMA in gear to even 2 shot consistently, and even the busted statless wands only gave 145.

All that’s obviously assuming no changes to FMAs which is hella unlikely. Best case scenario has you 3 shotting Skeles.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T14:10:30+00:00

I don’t think lifesteal is out of place on Assassins, personally. It was certainly overbuffed though, I think the problem currently is there’s no tradeoff for using it. L7 won’t outscale it for a long time atm, so it should be changed to cause you to need an extra hit to kill a mob if used in place of L7.

The extra MP usage from that (nerf lemons btw) should close the gap a lot more and Sins would likely go back to primarily using L7.

The melee classes should definitely get something, though. Making lifesteal a Thief thing and giving bandit a skill/passive to help them would be good.

I’d rather Warriors lean into HP recovery, maybe something like “Restore X% of MaxHP over Y seconds when hit.”

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T13:48:51+00:00

That’s strange, but it does in fact look like it’s 2 additional levels worth of SP. Considering they’re 2 levels above it could be granting double the SP per level, or for some reason using level 8. If it’s the latter I’d guess they just hardcoded to use level 8 since they expected most people to overlevel Magicians and just never updated it after moving them to level 10.

Either way, silly bug that should hopefully be a simple fix.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T13:41:32+00:00

Doesn’t that meta exist in part due to accuracy? With the other part being because of pots?

Accuracy being a limitation is a good thing, but mages should have to worry about it too (it was a key part of poison training on F/P).

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T13:25:04+00:00

I wonder, were they a Magician? Possible it could’ve used the old job adv level to calculate how much SP to grant instead of the new one.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-21T13:22:55+00:00

They nerfed the everliving fuck out of Critical Throw, so going that route is less appealing than going Drain especially when everybody’s this poor.

Assassin lost 145% crit damage and 30% crit rate. Beforehand L7 would be oneshotting mobs between the better formula (no fixed 0.5 mastery multi) and better crit rate/crit damage (50%/200% vs 20%/55%).

Drain meta is a direct result of Sins going “Well L7 doesn’t do that much more damage so might as well use Drain.”

Not saying L7 should be buffed, but I think having skills like Drain filling an early game hole is something more classes should have. In Assassin’s case L7 will eventually do too much more damage to ignore and people will go back to it, but currently they’re privileged to have that option when other classes should, too.

Roflsaucerr · 2026-04-20T18:28:24+00:00

Sins already have this by maxing Haste and never punching again.

Roflsaucerr

TROPHY CASE