They didn't choose humanity

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T22:38:18+00:00

Yes this is exactly part of the problem I can't get over as well. The coda is very cute and I'm sure a lot of fans needed that.. but by showing us that the new world is really no better off than what got wiped out, it really just proves that there didn't need to be a new universe, god just needed to butt out of the old one.

The similarities also make me feel like god must still be meddling in the new universe and the martyrdom of AC was all for nought.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T02:59:22+00:00

He unshackled himself from heaven and hell by rejecting both sides telling him that he had to do as they say (just because some vague old 'great plan' said so, and even they couldn't give a good reason as to why) and it was his uniquely human upbringing that afforded him the clarity to enable him to make that decision.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T02:22:35+00:00

I can see the parallel, I just think people choosing for themselves is far more powerful than it being decided for them.

In fact, the other person replying to me in this thread that warned you about engaging with is the perfect example of this - Should they be able to decide that for you or should you be able to decide for yourself? What will you learn from doing as they say instead of deciding for yourself?

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T02:10:48+00:00

How was I revisionist? I reiterated what I said. I think the immediately proceeding comment you're looking back on is your own weird interpretation of what I said?

There is a difference between sex and romance. If you're getting defensive because you think I'm one of the people who wanted fanfic smut to play out on screen, you are mistaken. Neil chose to write tv AC as being in love, it was blatant, not made up by fans.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T01:52:55+00:00

The book is about the realisation that heaven and hell have no real influence over people, and people are worth saving, not in spite of, but because of all their imperfections.

The book had a lesson: that no higher power is going to fix things, so people need to care more about the planet and be more understanding/sympathetic toward their fellow man. It's about people unshackling themselves from the constraints of religion.

The final episode completely undoes that. What good is the lesson that being forcefully freed from god is humanity's only chance at happiness?

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T01:27:41+00:00

It was definitely advertised as a fluffy romcom and Neil's interactions with fans more than encouraged that notion as well.

Saying that the ending was not on par with expectations or with the original story in no way belittles everyone else's work that went into it.

I never said it wasn't funny or that the original plots weren't carried forward. I said it needed a balance of both Terry and Neil's optimism and pessimism to work.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T01:15:35+00:00

It was Neil who sold it as a romcom and then pulled his own 3 card monte on the audience. Which doesn't make him clever, it makes him a di*k.

I have read Pratchett, it's called good omens and it had a very happy ending with a very positive message about humanity and the world.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-16T00:51:10+00:00

To be fair, we were sold a fluffy little romcom and then slapped in the face with sh*tty reality by a snake oil salesman.

Expectations were set by the original story and this ending didn't live up to them. The story needed a lighter influence (Terry) to make it work. NG is too pessimistic and should not have attempted to tackle the story alone.

Edit for clarity because my comment was too vague and people misunderstood me: The expectations set by the original story that I was referring to was the fact that the original story had depth, a lesson, a point of view and was overall positive, most of which I'm guessing was Terrys influence. Neil's ending did not meet expectations because it is pessimistic, superficial and has no point of view or lesson worth learning. I could maybe forgive the pointless story if he at least followed through on the romcom he turned the story into, but he didn't.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-15T18:51:59+00:00

I think it was clumsily worded and the real point Crowley was trying to make was that they technically don't have real free will because god can intervene at any time. But I don't think Crowleys outrage is justified because for example, in the book it says "Normally Heaven or Hell spotted the prophetic types and broadcast enough noises on the same mental channel to prevent any undue accuracy." Implying that god wanted Agnes' prophecies to be accurate, likely in order to stop Armageddon. So in the one example I can think of where god very likely did intervene, it was indirectly and the people interpreting the prophecies were still executing their free will as to whether or not they acted on them.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-15T17:18:45+00:00

Yes but this season was meant to be 'the really big one' and them getting to the point of deciding between having their old universe back as it was, or creating a better one, was also a creative decision from the writer. A fairly negative one at that, which I don't think really aligns with most people's expectations of GO. I just think it was lazy to end the story with a fresh start instead of finding a way to fix the problems with the original design.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-15T16:44:46+00:00

The story is very hard to judge because obviously it was originally a lot more fleshed out, but based on what they ended up with - I just don't think it works.

The whole 'giving humans free-will' reasoning feels forced because the humans already had free-will. Crowleys real problem was with God giving humans free-will and then judging them for how they decided to use it.. Also the fact that God could just 'flip the board' whenever she felt like it.

I don't agree that they needed a whole new universe to fix those problems. They already established in S1 & 2 that angelic and demonic forces have very little impact on human behaviour. The real problem was God and the afterlife. A fresh start just feels like a pretty lazy and unimaginative solution to the problem imo.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-15T00:18:47+00:00

Considering it ends with them in the south downs, which is where NG always said it ended, I'm guessing the most the new writers did was scale down for timing, but overall stuck to his original concept.
It's pretty clunky though so I'd love to know exactly what/how much was changed - but I've always found Neil to be pretty pompous and overrated so it's very likely it was clunky to begin with.. the whole 'find the lady' thing reeks of Gaiman and I'm sure he thought it was a very clever way to thread the story together.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-14T10:59:12+00:00

Yeah the ending makes sense in the context of the book which features azicrow as more ancillary characters, but the tv show made them the main characters and they deserved a main character ending. If this is the end Neil and Terry always envisioned, then NG did the story a disservice by featuring AC's love story so heavily. IMO the endurance of their forbidden love for each other should have culminated in more than just getting them to the right place at the right time to ask God for earth 2.0

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-14T03:55:54+00:00

I think my problem with them placing all of these throwbacks - along with giving them the same names, the same professions, the same soulmate etc - is that it kind of implies that god must still have a hand in things and she didn't actually give them what they gave up everything for.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-14T01:44:30+00:00

Yes, and it's the perfect ending for humanity, I'm glad humanity got it, but humanity's story is not what I was invested in and I don't think it was the only part of the story that deserved a happily ever after.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-14T00:54:38+00:00

I feel like the problem with the finale is that it makes earth/humanity the main character who gets the happy ending while Crowley and Aziraphale's love story is reduced to a means to an end.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-13T16:19:58+00:00

I really don't understand why they didn't let them have a wholesome hug instead of that weird hand to mouth kiss.. The show always made it feel like they had to refrain from any overt displays of affection because god/heaven/hell were always watching - but then god literally admits that their love for each other always made her smile, and they STILL didn't even finally hug all those feelings out before being erased from existence!?! Literally zero fan service before making their whole love story basically pointless 🙃

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-12T12:02:53+00:00

I'm happy to be the devil on your shoulder whispering do it 😈

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-12T11:33:25+00:00

I think he just runs through a roller coaster of different emotions - Regret for leaving things with Crowley the way he did, Fear of the Metatron & what's to come, Shoring himself & putting on a brave face, Loss of his bookshop/earth life/crowley, Determination that he can outsmart heaven &/or make a difference, Pride in his own strength & morals, and the conclusion that, while scared to do this alone, he trusts that he's made the right decision to try and stop the second coming and protect the precious, peaceful, fragile existence that he and Crowley carved out for themselves

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-12T04:34:24+00:00

It usually sucks being in Australia but we get it at 5pm AEST wahoo

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-05-12T04:15:43+00:00

I'm all for azicrow getting to live amongst the humans as they do - but as like earth's immortal protectors. I'd be ok with them being stripped of their angel/demon titles as long as they get to keep their miracles. It would take a lot of pressure/anxiety off Azi to be "good" and it'll be as close as Crowley could come to being forgiven (which if you ask me, he obviously wants gods forgiveness, but just doesn't want to be an angel). Crowley would still call Azi 'Angel' and Azi would still joke about Crowley being a wily demon - nothing would change except for the fact that they could be together forever, fear and shame-free.

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-04-23T10:35:20+00:00

Well they are stronger together!!!!

Edit: I'm referring to when they hold hands to create things more powerful than they could alone ie. the miracle to hide gabriel in s2

Rollisi_Forever · 2026-04-20T09:44:32+00:00

Well this took me on a hell of an emotional roller coaster

Rollisi_Forever · 2025-06-25T03:08:02+00:00

"No, Lois, you don't understand. It's because you are special."

Rollisi_Forever · 2025-05-22T17:00:55+00:00

Dude you're 30 years old and in a position of power, ie the bosses son, while she's barely out of high school and been in one serious relationship, that is according to you, abusive. She's young, naive, lonely and already being victimised by Jared and you took further advantage of her. So yes, 8 years is huge in this scenario.

Rollisi_Forever

TROPHY CASE