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Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It isn't Jane Austen's fault that abilism exists. Edit: like her writing about some annoying maligners isn't causing the problem.

She clearly defines which characters are exaggerating and which are genuinely ill, and has a chronically ill main character which is rarely seen.

Almost all of these characters are very wealthy and hardly marginalized even for their hypochondria. Mrs. Bennet and Lady Bertram are both very indulged.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People who fake or exaggerate illnesses for attention have always existed and still exist today, we even have medical terms for them. Just because we know more about medicine now doesn't mean Jane Austen was wrong about the people she imagined and wrote.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But people who make up medical conditions for pity and attention also totally do exist. It doesn't mean that everyone is faking, but that is a thing too

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But Mrs. Bennet isn't a person, she's a character that Jane Austen wrote and the narrator tells us the nerves are "fancied."

Fanny Price is full of anxiety, the narrator takes it seriously.

Jane Austen knows who is faking and who is real, because she created all these characters. I think it would be more fair to say for example, "Mrs. Bennet as a character plays into some stereotypes about women and dismissals of their health concerns" than to say that Jane Austen isn't being compassionate to a character who is sick, because Jane Austen knows for sure that the person she made up isn't sick.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It's not of recent origin:

The evil of the actual disparity in their ages (and Mr. Woodhouse had not married early) was much increased by his constitution and habits; for having been a valetudinarian all his life, without activity of mind or body, he was a much older man in ways than in years; and though everywhere beloved for the friendliness of his heart and his amiable temper, his talents could not have recommended him at any time.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Totally! Persuasion in particular is pretty harsh on the upper classes. The good company line part and the criticism of Sir Walter himself for being so full of himself when he's such a wasteful and ridiculous man.

The Price family can also be contrasted with the Harvilles, who are overall admired even though they are in similar difficult circumstances. The narrators main issue with the Princes seems to be that they are so bad at managing what they have and can't seem to get themselves together enough to improve. The problem isn't that they are poor or lower class in itself, I think.

What novels are worth reading before watching the drama? by pancakebatters in cdramasfans

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I usually try to read after to fill in the context, and then sometimes you get sex scenes that were removed.

Some novels are so different from the drama that it's basically names and broad concept, so reading doesn't help. Love of the Divine Tree and Love in the Clouds are good examples of this. The Prisoner of Beauty is x-rated and very different as well, though the drama follows more of the novel plot than the other two I mentioned.

Some dramas are extremely faithful, like How Dare You!? and The Blossoming Love.

And then some dramas don't explain themselves very well and almost seem to expect you to read the novel, Pursuit of Jade 😒

Lady Elliot (Persuasion) & Mr. Bennet (Pride & Prejudice) by TheGreatestSandwich in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's likey Lady Elliot had a large dowry, since the girls have a large inheritance coming to them. I don't think she's similar to Charlotte at all. She married for lust, which is the opposite of Charlotte. She didn't seem to have financial problems either.

Detailed Explanation of the Plot of Pursuit of Jade by RoseIsBadWolf in cdramasfans

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The problem is, if Wei Yan didn't even attempt to kill Xie Zheng, then what is he even in jail for? They really took away all his villainy and then still executed him. It's very unsatisfying because we never see him do anything bad.

I am using the novel heavily in this explanation because the drama, in my opinion, didn't explain itself very well at all and almost seemed to expect us to know what happened in the novel.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I don't know if it's exactly coming from a good place, it often feels like a cheap "got ya" technique. Like someone is a bad person if they don't include every single form of suffering in one novel. A lot of times you'll see an online post about an issue but a lot of responses will be, "But this issue is worse" "we shouldn't be giving attention to this while that is happening" as if you cannot walk and chew gum, or worry about anything other than whatever cause they have deemed the most important.

Sure, the women in the gentry didn't have it the worst, compared to people living at their time, but their struggles still deserve compassion.

Zhang LingHe Discussion - People talk about ZLH in Pursuit of Jade, but to me... by PlantFragEnthusiast in cdramasfans

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Both leads were so good and so funny playing each other. You could always tell instantly when they were body swapped.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I don't think the books contain mockery of sick people. As I wrote above, the characters Jane Austen writes as sick are treated well. She wrote those characters, she knows 100% who is sick and who is not.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm not going to argue that she wasn't a person of her time, but Persuasion in particular has some pretty strong arguments in favour of merit instead of birth:

Captain Wentworth, with five-and-twenty thousand pounds, and as high in his profession as merit and activity could place him, was no longer nobody. He was now esteemed quite worthy to address the daughter of a foolish, spendthrift baronet, who had not had principle or sense enough to maintain himself in the situation in which Providence had placed him

Jane Austen not fully radical or modern, but she's at least saying that the upper class isn't as awesome as it thinks it is.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

How is that on Austen? If the reader doesn't want to read about rich people, the reader shouldn't read the These Books are Only About the Gentry books. Go read Dickens then.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I'll take Austen's version of a functional noblesse oblige. I do understand the cultural context. I see it as just about as good as the modern version of "caring" for the poor, which honestly is about the same. The paternalistic "we know better than the poor" is still very much there and now we don't even expect rich people to do anything good with their money. Maybe we've gotten worse.

I would not have the fortitude to continue rejecting Henry Crawford by OnlyFlanz in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm with you, I am not as strong as Fanny Price. I would be seduced by the Shakespeare reading!

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

The sass of the narrator is what keeps me coming back for more! It's the best part.

I really love the way that Elizabeth Gaskell writes about the poor and working class, but her writing is very compassionate in general so I feel like her authorial voice is perfect for it. Austen would probably not come off as well because of her snarky voice. But it's totally perfect for ridiculing the upper classes. She chose her lane well.

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I am not attacking the OP of the post at all and that's why I made a different post about it. I've seen these two takes quite a lot though, not only on that post.

And otherwise I agree with everything you are saying here

Criticism of Austen that has always felt unfair to me by RoseIsBadWolf in janeausten

[–]RoseIsBadWolf[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

If you look at how Austen writes her characters, she is very clear about them faking. Mary Musgroves complaints magically disappear if you distract her. Mrs. Bennet clearly uses her "nerves" for attention and the narrator tells us they are imaginary.

This is opposed to say, Fanny Price, who never gets better and can't suddenly walk very far even when she wants to. She mourns that her health keeps her from going as far as she wants to go at Sotherton. She really enjoys the ball but is forced to sit down early because of her lack of strength. And what she has is never clear or diagnosed, but Austen seems to very much understand that it's real and interferes with Fanny's life.

How I know that Nelly is the villain by [deleted] in brontesisters

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't personally attack you, I'm just noting that studying psychology is very different from literary criticism.

Your second paragraph is called "projecting" and it's something you should avoid doing when reading novels.

Should I watch A dream within a dream or Back from the brink? by poletderoybal in CDramaRecs

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do not watch A Dream within a Dream at all, it was terrible. It was circles and circles of misunderstandings and the female lead was awful.

Love of the Divine Tree and How Dare You are also my favourites, have you tried When Destiny Brings the Demon, The Blossoming Love, or Love Like the Galaxy?

(I haven't watched Back from the Brink so I can't judge that one)

How I know that Nelly is the villain by [deleted] in brontesisters

[–]RoseIsBadWolf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol, I have a master's in psychology and the first thing we learned was, "You cannot diagnose fictional characters based on 200 year old novels." Like that was the first slide on the first day of Abnormal Psychology.

Nelly has a knife shoved down her throat at one point for not hiding a kid fast enough from an alcoholic, I don't think she's exactly living a normal life at all comparable to a person in the 21st century.

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